Game Review: Texas Stumbles to 17-5 Loss at Missouri
by Peter Bean on Nov 13, 2011 1:23 AM CST
in Texas Longhorns Football
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I think Doug said it pretty well: it was a weird day in Columbia. A sad day, too. If you've been reading this blog for any part of the last four years you know there's been no bigger fan of Fozzy Whittaker than yours truly. If his season -- and UT career -- is done, as it appears it may well be: a huge thank you and all the best to a speedy recovery. Fozzy's a great kid with a huge heart and more talent than most realized. Ditto Keenan Robinson, who's been far more consistently productive than most imagined when he arrived on campus.
As for the game... honestly, I'm finding it tough to make much of today's game. Our offense was part-bad, part-incomplete. Our defense was mostly great, but with two costly mistakes -- one from each of our flawed senior safeties that cost us the two touchdowns that were the difference in the game. The Tigers got a pair touchdowns out of their first-half quarter with the wind, while the Longhorns got just 3 points out of theirs. The rest of the game was an even battle.
Our offense was hamstrung by Fozzy's injury -- and predictably inept after he went down -- and I was confused by a lot of our coaching decisions. It felt like we didn't have any kind of game plan for beating Missouri with our C Team, and it showed. I don't know whether that's something that's worth getting too worked up about... I'm inclined to shrug and move on, but your mileage may vary.
It still seems to me that the wins and losses of this season matter much less than whether we're getting the process right. So while I'm grumpy about losing and do understand anyone who's frustrated right now, this game seems like an especially appropriate time to point out that if you're unhappy with the position we find ourselves in, all the more reason to care about the big picture process. It was inattention to that process that led not only to last year's calamity, but to our being in the position we're in this season -- both generally and in Columbia today. If you didn't like the position you saw this Texas football program in Saturday, you should care about whether we're doing the right things to become a stronger and better program in 2012 and beyond.
Ultimately, saying you're unhappy with the way today turned out is tantamount to saying you're unhappy with what happened to let 5-7 happen to the program last year. However understandable the animating sentiment, it's a redundant, uncontested point, and the only thing that matters now is whether we're doing things the right way now. That we weren't a team capable of winning today's game is a consequence of our past failures, but not necessarily a reflection of our present misdirection. If you can't make that distinction, it's going to be difficult to offer a credible evaluation of our present process. Which, again, is all that matters.
As for the specifics, given the circumstances I'm tempted to skip the details altogether, but I do think it worthwhile to talk about them in the context of the broader project at hand, so let's dive in to the nitty gritty a bit after the jump...
Evaluating our passers. Starting with the quarterback play, we were doomed once Fozzy went down and our versatility and ability to attack Missouri in specific ways that Whittaker allows disappeared. Ash was better than his overall day implied (not good), and yet at the same time objectively bad in concrete ways. I'm less interested in whether he struggled today (he did), and more interested in whether (1) he would have been better operating in a complete offense, and (2) his mistakes are attributable to his being a freshman, or being inherently inadequate. On the first count, the evidence strongly suggests he would have been better under different circumstances -- as indeed he was to start the game. On the latter count, we'll have to wait and see, and if it's understandable that fans wish we didn't have to figure it out like this -- forced to accept all the bad to get our answer -- there's no alternative. We are where we are, and where we are isn't anything this staff can do anything about.
I thought Ash did a pretty solid job with his throws 15 yards and under, and his overall decision-making is much better than it was just a few short weeks ago, but after hitting Goodwin in the first quarter it was tough to watch him miss one deep ball after another. It was tough to watch half the time because he seemed to throw it deep without good reason, and the other half because he seemed to have no feel for the pass whatsoever. Making the right read on when to throw it is something that one assumes can and will improve with experience, but the ability to deliver the ball where it needs to be might be a limitation that sticks. At this point we don't know, and those who wonder about him long-term may well be right to worry, but for now I remain in the patient/hopeful camp -- in part, honestly, because I can't get that touchdown bomb to Mike Davis against Iowa State out of my head. I worry more about his ability to be consistent enough to win titles. It's too early to say, but that long-term question is much more my focus than whether he's going to have to battle through true freshman struggles to get there.
As for McCoy, I understand the coaches' impulse to grope for a spark, but it was unfortunate we wound up wasting three possessions with the wind. No, I can't say that Ash would have done more with those possessions, but he showed enough in the first quarter that it wasn't out of the question, and with his possessions McCoy simply confirmed why he isn't a viable starter. His mechanics are a mess, his not being a rusher makes us even more one-dimensional than we already are, and he's a turnover waiting to happen. He looks fine against terrible defenses who can't get to the quarterback and leave receivers wide open, but against credible defenses he's a liability. I love him as a quality back up that you could hope to win you a ball game if he had to come in, but the coaches have been right to go with Ash as QB1 and we need to continue to do so the rest of the season to get as good a look as possible at what he might be able to give us next year and beyond.
Evaluating our passing game as a whole. It should be noted, of course, that our quarterbacks were in a tough position to succeed. After Fozzy went down and Missouri realized what our running game could and couldn't do, smothering our passing attack was all the easier. It didn't help that our receivers dropped a couple of balls (Hales and White), while Goodwin missed on a deep ball he didn't get under properly, and we sorely missed a receiver who could punish Missouri in the quick/intermediate game. No Brown, no Bergeron, no Fozzy, no Shipley... as evenly as the game was played, with all four of those guys out we lose today's game 4 times out of 5.
The offensive line wasn't as bad as they looked when things went badly, but their mistakes just added another degree of difficulty to the challenge. Trey Hopkins and Padden Kelley each nearly got Ash killed, while the line as a whole wasn't consistent enough to prevent us from winding up in 3rd and Drive Over before we could get into scoring range. If you're wondering why Harsin kept trying to make something happen down the field, it's not because he wanted to see us fail to do so in ugly fashion over and over again -- it's because he didn't think we were consistent enough to avoid Drive Over downs otherwise. He was probably right.
An impressive, almost heroic, effort by the defense. You had to be proud of the way our defense battled throughout this game, and especially after consecutive second quarter touchdowns gave Missouri what looked like -- considering our offensive limitations -- an insurmountable two-score lead. The Tigers went into a bit of a protective mode once they got a lead, but they mainly did so only after our defense clamped down and was so locked in on what Mizzou wanted to do that it looked like just a matter of time before the Texas defense made a game-changing play. We had numerous near-misses in the third quarter, a couple of which could have resulted in a defensive score.
Our defensive line turned in another inspired performance -- particularly our ends, who did a terrific job keeping Missouri contained inside. Jeffcoat and Okafor both left it all on the field and were a big reason we held the Tigers to 270 total yards after they took their first drive 68 yards into our red zone. Losing Keenan Robinson -- who's been no less inspiring a warrior for this program as Fozzy Whittaker -- early in the game was unfortunate, and I really hope that his career at Texas isn't over. Our defense nevertheless overcame that loss in large part because Emmanuel Acho delivered one of the best individual performances by a Texas linebacker in recent memory: 12 tackles, 4 tackles-for-loss, a forced fumble in the red zone -- the senior was seemingly in on every play, and he's been our Defensive MVP the last month.
The defense's only real blemish was, well...
Paying for our senior safeties. If/when you get the Longhorn Network, as I did early last week after switching from AT&T to Grande, the intimate access you'll get to the players will make it a lot harder to be a dick about it, but we're not going to miss the costly limitations of our senior safeties. Two plays not only perfectly highlighted the weaknesses of Blake Gideon and Christian Scott, but each player's mistake resulted directly or indirectly in the touchdowns that were the difference in the game.
It was Christian Scott who on 3rd down and 7 could not accelerate to stay with TJ Moe in coverage, allowing a 40-yard completion that set up Missouri 1st and Goal from the 6. And it was Blake Gideon whose befuddling angle to Kendial Lawrence allowed a 10-yard gain to become a 35-yard touchdown. We all saw both plays, and there's not much to say about it at this point except to say that for all the positive things they've contributed to this program for which we should be grateful, their limitations make them players that we will be happy to try and upgrade from going forward. Personally, where the stakes are which non-BCS Bowl we might attend, I'd like to see that process get underway over the course of the remaining three games -- even if the transition is just incremental.
Looking ahead. Speaking of the remaining schedule, there are no easy wins left on the board, as on a good day K-State, A&M, and Baylor can all hang 25+ points on even a good defense, and they'll score a lot more than that if a defense isn't sharp. Needless to say, this Texas offense isn't a good bet to match that against a competitive defense. Although we can be optimistic about getting either Brown or Bergeron back (either will do, given the overlap in what they bring to the table), but Fozzy's gone for the year, and he was -- among other things -- our most critical red zone player. We can and must continue to hope that our passing game takes some steps forward down the stretch, but more likely we're going to need complete performances by our defense to win each game.
We could still win all three, but we could also lose all three -- particularly if we're anything as banged up as we were today. All things considered, we should probably just light the tower purple (again), but it would be meaningful to pick up that win in College Station, after which I'd feel great about our chances to follow that up with a win in Waco, as well.
We'll see, and this final stretch of games may test the patience and long-term vision of the Texas fan base. Losing sucks, but if you're pissed about the position we're in, much more than the final record of this season's team you should probably be a lot more concerned with whether this program -- this coaching staff -- is building the right kind of foundation, the lack of which is precisely the cause of the problems we're lamenting right now.
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looking ahead
i think we can win all 3 of the remaining games if the following things happen
1. We get Malcolm Brown and Joe Bergeron back
2. The Defense continues to play as well as it has the last 3 weeks
3. We get Shipley back to aid the passing game
if we can at least accomplish the first two i think we can win either all 3 of the remaining games or win two and only drop one
formerly "Horns102591"
How long?
Just a hypothetical question here. With a 5-7 season behind us and possibly facing a 6-6 year this year, how long does Mack/DeLoss Dodds have until the pressure starts mounting for a change at Head Coach?
Growing pains
Compare UT right now to Florida’s situation. Both had stud QB’s leave (McCoy and Tebow) and now are finding it hard to find their identity again. It’s tough nowadays with the competitiveness of college football all across the country. And the Big 12 is definitely no joke (who would have though OKST would become a powerhouse?) It’s just those end-of-a-dynasty type growing pains that can be frustrating to watch for UT fans who witnessed countless 10 win seasons for so long.
So that said, I’d give Brown 2-3 years, then we can question whether we need a change at HC. But as long as we progress (if we go 6-6 next year, win 1 or 2 more games next year, and so forth), Dodds won’t make any rash decisions firing the guy. Heck, I love Mack Brown and always will!
"If you want to surf, move to Hawaii. If you like to shop, move to New York. If you like acting and Hollywood, move to California. But if you like college football, move to Texas."
-- Ricky Williams
EDIT: 6-6 this year
"If you want to surf, move to Hawaii. If you like to shop, move to New York. If you like acting and Hollywood, move to California. But if you like college football, move to Texas."
-- Ricky Williams
Early leads, early leads, early leads.
That’s the ONLY way we will win the games coming up. Get out to an early lead (not talking 3-0, but something along the lines of 7-0 to 10-0 and above) and we will win. Simple formula, just hard to score without your top 3 RB’s now? Sheesh.
I was frustrated about this loss, but have realized that the wind played a big factor in this game then people might think. It was another element that the coaches must not have game planned around. That, coupled with the injuries left and right on O, was a recipe for disaster. Just sucks to see Mizzou leave the Big 12 beating us after a decade plus of getting whooped. sigh
Either way, can’t wait for next Saturday’s BIG game vs. K-State. Let’s see how resilient this team is.
HOOK ’EM!
"If you want to surf, move to Hawaii. If you like to shop, move to New York. If you like acting and Hollywood, move to California. But if you like college football, move to Texas."
-- Ricky Williams
Sad
Texas is stuck with two QB’s that have the talent of a decent high school player. Mack put all his eggs in the Garrett Gilbert basket and now we continue to suffer for the recruitment of and staying with him.If not for GG this team would not be stuck with Ash and McCoy.
It would be interesting to see Mack’s logic in not recruiting a QB that can throw the ball. I have not seen a worse QB in division one. I defy anyone to name a worse QB that Ash and McCoy.
I got one..
Matt Simms University of Tennessee, Desmond Howard hit the nail on the head lol and he’s a Senior!!!! Wow he was benched for a Freshman QB who is getting killed!!!
by French-Horn on Nov 13, 2011 3:13 AM CST via mobile up reply actions
+1
It was a joke as we have one that is struggling as well, and I’m tired of people demanding greatness from a true freshman.
by French-Horn on Nov 13, 2011 1:23 PM CST via mobile up reply actions
Maybe not greatness
but I would like to see one of our QB’s hit a receiver running in stride ONCE this year. Every deep pass has either been short or way too long. And it’s cost us points.
The Missouri game is a perfect example. Our WR’s beat their defense enough that with decent passes we win the game.
Davis
still had to slow down to make the catch. What made that play was the fact that the defender was 5-yards behind Davis.
The other two deep passes (both to Shipley) on that highlight were also short and had the defender(s) been aware, they would have resulted in ints.
by Forty on Nov 13, 2011 3:34 PM CST up reply actions 1 recs
PB + 1
I agree 1000% percent, I just finished rewatching the game, taking notes, and putting my thoughts together about this train wreck of an Offense.
The biggest thing that jumps out to me is when new coaches come in they ALAWYS find hidden talent that they help develop into A-List stars, but that has not happened on this team because our non-freshman offensive talent resembles a kiddie pool and not the deep end we are accustomed to. I’m excluding underused players from last year like Goodwin and Monroe because we know them and what they can do in the right situation. Fozzy was the closest thing, but he was more on IR than undeveloped.
This team’s door to sucess (wins and losses) is hinged on freshmen and that’s screams we have been a HOT MESS in recruiting, a problem 4-5 years in the making. Another reason to chant Fire Greg Davis!!! LoL
Like Martin Lawrence said “it don’t get no better” shit we are stuck on Offense until attrition and graduation reduce the non-producing kids so they can be replaced with game breakers. I really feel we have another 2 years of stock piling talent before we can realistic have expectations of being an elite team on both sides of the ball.
by French-Horn on Nov 13, 2011 3:44 AM CST via mobile reply actions
Completely agree
Early last year it was clear to me we had a severe talent problem at several positions. Today our team is pretty much made up of sophs and frosh. Hopefully the 2012 recruits will be as good as Rivals (last I looked they had us as #1 for 2012) is advertising. I still don’t know if our two QBs will develop much further…but it appears if the rushing game is working they can perform reasonably well. Another good rusher comming in and hopefully some more suppport for the O-line. We certainly won’t graduate too many horses. But, we will lose Acho, Randall, Robinson, Snow, and maybe Vaccaro if opts for the NFL draft. Even though most of these guys are defensive players…I think we now have pretty good depth on defensive side.
So maybe next year we can contend for B-12 champs and possibly have a top 10 program.
Great players make great coaches, but great coaches make champions." DKR circa 1964
We did a great job finding that Under the Radar DT
Chris Whaley had a good day and seems to be a force on the D-LIne. Truly a nice surprise, and yes I do know he was our RB savior. But, at least he is hitting the field in a position of need nobody how assbackward he got to his position.
To Fozzy. Thanks for the great memories, especially the run backs this year. Get well Fozzy.
Malcolm, Joe, Jaxon, please get well soon. It is amazing that you are freshman, but you are the heart of our team already. I feel like I didn’t even watch a Longhorn game yesterday without any you guys playing. I am very optimistic of our future with the new talent coming in also.
We're Texas, We're not OK.
Funny thing
Finding a defensive tackle is worth far more valuable than finding a RB. Maybe Mack should keep recruiting RBs. We will have best DL in the main
Where are all the 3rd, 4th, and 5th year 5 star recruits that should be carrying the team?
There’s a reason most folks don’t play 18-year old kids. They’re rarely physically mature enough to take a NCAA beating… Bummer on Fozzy – really hate to see Sr’s get knocked out.
I’d be asking where all the 3rd, 4th, and 5th year 5 star recruits are that should be the mainstay of the team. Or were those down years for recruiting?
Missed evaluations mainly
By our entire offensive staff. Less on defense because of coach booms players.
Karate? The Dane Cook of martial arts?
by Rocket94 on Nov 13, 2011 6:55 AM CST via mobile up reply actions
Here's the answer
2007
Allen – not the player we, the coaches or every other team in the country thought he’d be. Health and poor coaching at least partly to blame for underachieving compared to recruiting ranking.
Curtis Brown – gone to the NFL
2008
No 5-stars. Highest rated players left early for the NFL (A. Williams) or had medical issues (J. Humphrey)
2009
Gilbert – not the player we, the coaches or every other team in the country thought he’d be. Transferred.
Mason Walters/Alex Okafor – both have come on this year and seem to be having good, if not great years.
This is the most difficult part of the process
Talent evaluation. We all thought we were set when GD made the seemingly no-brainer move of hooking Garett Gilbert, the all-Everything stud QB from just up the road. Case was a little bit of a reach but understandable, Ash is solid if not spectacular. But since Colt left we haven’t had a QB who can deliver a 300 yard, 3 TD performance. It kind of bothers me to look around and see the numbers that QB’s are putting up knowing that ours don’t have that capability.
It’s always the same thing with skill players. You bring in 3-4 wideouts a year and hope that one of them becomes a player. Rare are the Shipleys. Same with RB’s and QB’s. You never know how they’ll adjust to the speed of the game. So all-American GG fails miserably while 3 star McCoy (Colt) makes a run at the Heisman.
Then again neither has Alabama’s QB’s had the ‘3 TD capability’. . The one consistent thing Nick Saban does is recruit outstanding linemen and running backs. I think they’re a little easier to peg out of high school. In that respect we’re on the right track, the lines are better and they are maturing, and improving though they didn’t show much yesterday when we really needed it..
Unfortunately I don’t share your admiration of Muschamp, last year’s LB’s made few plays and the secondary is still reeling from bad evaluations, especially at safety, under his stewardship. I will say that Carrington Byndom has some serious closing speed and tackling ability. He’s like a human blur and rarely misses a tackle.
I guess the bottom line is that if you want consistency you build from the linemen backwards. Last year we were terrible on boths sides of the ball. This year a little better. Next year probably a little better. We’re trying to get to the point where we can play with anybody at the line of scrimmage and here Stacy Searels has set the tone and done a tremendous job.
The next couple of years the onus will be on Bryan Harsin and QB evaluations. Also on the safeties and MLB on defense. The center of the field, as usual.
"One player was lost because he broke his nose. How do you go about getting a nose in condition for football?" -- Darrell K Royal, when asked if the abnormal number of Longhorn injuries that season resulted from poor physical conditioning
by SpiritOfTheFedora on Nov 13, 2011 9:36 AM CST up reply actions
Boom
Less on defense because of coach booms players.
Coach Boom didn’t exactly hit it out of the park in terms of DT’s or S. We have very little depth at DE and are having to start a true freshman at CB.
what I'm sayin'..nt
"One player was lost because he broke his nose. How do you go about getting a nose in condition for football?" -- Darrell K Royal, when asked if the abnormal number of Longhorn injuries that season resulted from poor physical conditioning
by SpiritOfTheFedora on Nov 13, 2011 9:55 AM CST up reply actions
Old staff
Glad they’re gone. But should get credit for our frosh class. At least what we’re seeing so far they may be the best we’ve ever had
by scott_tiger on Nov 13, 2011 1:32 PM CST via iPhone app up reply actions
Missed Evals or Mack throwing everyone under the bus last year?
Could be that Mack doesn’t trust any of the kids (the coaches all left) that he trashed last year. You know, the one’s that had a bad attitude and couldn’t get the job done.
I think the coaches are very realistic about the QB's presently here...
that is why we have seen the dramatic shift to a heavy run-orientated offense. Even an optimistic horns fan would justly believe Ash is still 2 years away from being a QB that can win a big game for Texas if the running game failed for whatever reason. Or we are at least 2 years away from any incoming QB to take over the reigns.
It is what it is….however….the o-line is improving, we have a very elite stable of running backs in place for the next 3 years, so we won’t need a do-everything QB during that time. I look at yesterday as just a bump in the road….which could temporarily get a bit bumpier to close the season depending upon the status of brown & bergeron.
One last thing that is great to see, is this defense is rounding into form…and quickly! We are just a few personnel pieces away from being a dominant defense.
Wild horn?
Without Fozzie, what?
Before you criticize someone, walk a mile in their shoes. If they get mad, you're a mile away AND you have their shoes.
Id like to see M. Thompson get a look with the Wild Horn
When he played QB in highschool, he did a lot of zone read stuff. He’s fast as hell and generally made good decisive reads..Of course that’s just from film
Me: "Hunny, how much is our Wedding budget?"
Fiance`"No, You can't have Craig Way call our wedding.."
Me: "Damnit.."
We weren't doing read options in the Wild formations
It was either Fozzy keeping and running power or handing off to DJ on the jet sweep. There are some other occasional wrinkles, but those are the two main plays and we don’t leave anyone unblocked and read them to decide whether to keep or hand off—it’s called from the huddle. Brown or Bergeron could do it with a little practice, and it needs to be someone who could run the power as Fozzy did out of the formation. Not sure if M. Thompson is the man for that.
Well said, Peter....
Scipio has similar thoughts on BC:
We were pretty much done yesterday when Fozzy went down. Missing our top 4 offensive playmakers, our young OL (two freshmen and a sophomore) getting schooled by a veteran Missouri defensive front, and a freshman QB—not a lot for Harsin to work with. Exactly right that these are the effects of lazy recruiting and coaching over several years.
Also exactly right that what matters is going forward. This coaching staff gives all indications of a massive improvement both in terms of recruiting and development of that talent once it reaches Austin. The remaining 3 games this year will be a struggle even with either RB and Shipley returning as the easy opponents are gone. Winning one of those games and finishing 7-5 will be an accomplishment. Two would be exceeding expectations.
The big thing is we are bowl eligible which will give this young squad exactly what it needs: reps with competent coaching.
Absolutlely
We are going in the right direction with the right coaches. I am very optimistic., and these growing pains this year are to be expected. We are handling things very well. Direction is up the rankings and higher expectations for next year.
We're Texas, We're not OK.
i still think we can at least split the upcoming games
as long as we get our RBs back
formerly "Horns102591"
blocked punt
would have been a different game if we score a td instead of the safety. just didn’t get the bou ces today. oh well, next week.
Not much grace in losing...
Granted you guys had tough injuries, but most of them occurred before the game, and early on in the week I heard a lot of talk about how UT had endless amounts of talent at running back and it didn’t matter who was injured. In addition, there wasn’t much indication that it would have mattered who Texas had running the ball. Even if everyone had been healthy, Missouri was stacking the box and no one was going to get yardage against that front 8. The issue for you guys was an inability to pass and/or protect the quarterback.
And as for injuries, I’ve heard very little if any mention — here or elsewhere — that Missouri essentially played three quarters without the 4th most efficient running back in the country.
And as far as Missouri beating your “c” team. From what I could tell you had everybody on defense, your quarterback(s), your offensive linemen, your tight ends, and some of your receivers. It also might be worthwhile to remember that Missouri fumbled the ball inside the Texas 15 on the first drive of the game when it was clear that they were about to score, and that the coaches shut down the offense at the end of the 3rd quarter when they started playing not to lose. In other words, its not like 17-5 is an accurate reflection of what did or could have occurred on the field.
Rather than pinning the loss entire on Texas injuries/bad coaching, how about attributing some of the outcome to the play of a Missouri team that also didn’t have everything go its way. Perhaps it would be helpful to remember, that Missouri’s defense is MUCH better than advertised. The front seven is probably as good as any in the country in terms of stopping the run, in the Big 12 that just doesn’t count for much. Due to how Texas plays, however, Missouri’s defensive strength was relevant.
We lost. You won.
Thanks for laying down in the second half to make our losing look closer than it was. Appreciate your magnanimous gesture, sport.
If Mizzou homer analysis is what you’re looking for, try RockMNation. You’re not going to find any details of how the mighty Tigers felled the Longhorns on this board.
With games against the Big 12 dregs remaining, you guys should make a bowl game so congrats on that accomplishment.
See you on the hard court.
Burnt Orange Nation
Follow Along on Twitter @TXStampede
Tough to really draw that conclusion
Losing to a 3-5 team when you don’t have your 4 top players on offense, tends to steer the conversation to what might have been if we’d have had all, or possibly even 1 of those players.
Small sample size, but we were moving the ball on Mizzou’s defense before Fozzy went down. I tend to think that having Fozzy and Brown or Bergeron probably provides us at least another 13 points.
Perhaps it would be helpful to remember, that Missouri’s defense is MUCH better than advertised.
Did you give up 600 or 700 yards last week? And why would it be helpful? I wouldn’t try to analyze this too much, you crowded the box with 9 guys and we couldn’t hit passes.
"One player was lost because he broke his nose. How do you go about getting a nose in condition for football?" -- Darrell K Royal, when asked if the abnormal number of Longhorn injuries that season resulted from poor physical conditioning
by SpiritOfTheFedora on Nov 13, 2011 10:01 AM CST up reply actions
Yes, because beating essentially the back-ups of our back-ups is a great achievement
LMAO. Keep telling yourself that, Tiger.
Because we're Texas and we're evil. DUH.
by iamjackburton on Nov 13, 2011 11:02 AM CST up reply actions
Absurd
If we had our full compliment of players, it was obvious we would have won. It wouldn’t be a blowout but a sure W.
anyway enjoy being the new ole miss in the SEC
by jtdoes on Nov 13, 2011 12:32 PM CST via mobile up reply actions
The stats projections had Mizzou as a 0.1 point favorite
And the line had Texas as a 1.5 point favorite, with the understanding that Fozzie would be healthy going into the game. Calling this a “sure W” were you healthy is the height of Longhorn hubris. UT has a better record, but Mizzou has played a significantly more difficult schedule (to date, anyway) and looked more impressive in their losses than UT has. The two teams are about equal when equally healthy, and they’ll finish with pretty similar win-loss records
Right....
You’re first string running backs would have beaten Missouri’s front eight if they’d have played…get real…you haven’t been able to pass all year rwgardless of who has played and that is why you lost not because of your running injuries. And, by the way, as far as a share of offensive production, Missouri lost more with Josey in three quarters than you post with all of your injuries combined. UT probably loses this game if EVERYONE is healthy, 7 out of 10 times. In Austin the opposite would hold true. Stop believing that Missouri is medicore and you’ll feel better.
We lost because of missing our FOUR best offensive players...
…not because you’re giant killers.
But hey, look on the bright side, soon we’ll see how good your defense really is facing a power run every single week in the SEC. Good luck with that. Enjoy the LIttle Caesar’s Bowl in 2017…
Alas, I agree fully--Texas completely lost the line of scrimmage offensively
40+ year Longhorn fan here. QB play was disastrous also; Ash doesn’t have what it takes (obviously McCoy has even less); his accuracy is so bad that no amount of play will turn him into anything but a poor college QB. It’s going to be a tough finishing only 6-6 but that looks very likely.
I think Harsin is getting too much of a "pass."
Our QB coaching is sub-par, and the playcalling was laughable throughout the game. Harsin appears to be an upgrade over GDGD, although at this point it’s hard for me to distinguish between “improvement” and just “different.” We are certainly more interesting to watch; I am consistently amused and impressed by all the pre-snap motion and funky formations. However, once the ball is snapped, we look a whole lot like the same piece of shit we looked like last year (MB, JB, and JS notwithstanding).
I am not by any stretch of the imagination suggesting that Harsin is unqualified or that he should be replaced; I am merely saying that I believe he ought to bear more of the responsibility for yesterday’s fiasco than just “Oh, well, the running backs were injured and it was windy. Move along.”
To err is human...but humans have such low standards.
Gimme a break
Harsin lost his top three RB’s, his top WR and has no QB who can put the ball on the numbers. Plus he has an OL that is one year removed from possibly the worst line we’ve had in 40 years. You’re just gonna have to wait until the RB’s get healthy, the line gets tougher/more experienced and we can find a QB.
"One player was lost because he broke his nose. How do you go about getting a nose in condition for football?" -- Darrell K Royal, when asked if the abnormal number of Longhorn injuries that season resulted from poor physical conditioning
by SpiritOfTheFedora on Nov 13, 2011 9:53 AM CST up reply actions
Give ME a break
If you’re going to gameplan for Mizzou and 60% of your offense is going to be Fozzy, you’ve got to ask yourself what might you do if Fozzy gets hurt.
Harsin did get exposed. His job is to think of every possible scenario and coordinate an offense around that. If the right side of the OL is a sieve, roll the pocket to the left side. If your QB can’t throw 35 yards into the wind, let’s shorten the routes.
Also, Harsin did have his top WR on the field. Mike Davis is the #1.
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by run Bevo run on Nov 13, 2011 2:48 PM CST up reply actions
Harsin
You are right. He can not develop QBs. He has been here 8 months and not produced a Heisman QB. It is amazing we pay that guy
You and I are clearly on the same wavelength
The lack of patience can astound me sometimes. I understand that things are worse for the first 24 hours after the loss, when people are more emotional. But still…
People want the quick and easy fix, but it doesn’t necessarily happen like that. It is why weight loss books are so popular, why Fortune 500 companies hop from one weird fad to another, and why fan bases can turn on their coaches/players in a half a season (not what is happening here, but it has happened other places for sure).
Stuff takes time to fix, and takes time to improve. This is just life. If you want to scream and yell, go ahead, but it won’t make things get better faster.
The rush to judgment on Ash (and on McCoy to a certain extent) is really something to watch. The list of highly successful true freshman quarterbacks is very short. It is this way for a reason.
I am on Twitter @jeffchaley
Henry Josey injury confirmed
Mizzou confirms Henry Josey suffered a torn ACL, MCL and patellar tendon. Surgery this morning, timeline for a return unknown.
Hate that for Josey. Mack Brown did, too, as he ran across the field to show his sympathy before Josey was carted off. Don’t recall hearing about Pinkel doing the same when Fozzy went down.
Burnt Orange Nation
Follow Along on Twitter @TXStampede
That is a bummer
The guy was having such a nice year.
Fortunately, the quality of these surgeries, and the recovery from them, is generally pretty good. But, speaking as someone who blew out his knee ~15 years ago, it is a long hard rehab road.
I am on Twitter @jeffchaley
See, this is why I'm happy we didn't play Brown or Bergeron
Until they’re 100% or mostly 100%. I’d rather take a lost now than a pyrrhic victory where our future is jeopardize. Let’s face it, those two backs ARE our future going forward.
Because we're Texas and we're evil. DUH.
by iamjackburton on Nov 13, 2011 10:57 AM CST up reply actions
Very much a wonderful gesture by Mack Brown there
I don’t think it reflects poorly on Pinkel that he didn’t go over to Whittaker nearly as much as it reflects very well on your head coach.
As a Tiger fan, I’ve seen a lot of negative stuff said about the Longhorns and their administration. It’s VERY rare to see something negative about Mack Brown. He’s a 100% class act, and you guys are right to be proud of having him in Burnt Orange.
Rational Mizzou Talk, whether you like us or not.
Mack is easily the most politically correct coach in College ball...
It’s what makes him a better ambassador for The University than a true Head coach. Deloss should be nervous, Mack would be a great AD…
I will say it again
I know a lot of people don’t want to hear it, but I think it is true. We are in Year One of a three year rebuilding process. Anybody looking for a quick fix is shit out of luck. Until your team is relying on juniors and seniors with the odd freshmen or sophomores you will continue to struggle with inconsistancy. We are just beginning the cycle using so many true and redshirt freshmen.
Cut!
No. No. No, man.
You're making me fall asleep.
To death, bro! -Ghandi
by TexasGarcia37 on Nov 13, 2011 10:37 AM CST reply actions 1 recs
+1
I love the improvements at RB. D is still great. The future is bright.
Because we're Texas and we're evil. DUH.
by iamjackburton on Nov 13, 2011 10:58 AM CST up reply actions 1 recs
agree
There is no quick fix. Defense has been amazing, but look at that side. There are seniors and juniors all over the unit. The under classmen are just asked to do their job. No additional pressure and they are going up fast. Now look at the offense. Hard to find one player that can legally hit sixth street. They makes growing up a lot harder. They are going to take their lumps. Coaches biggest job is to improve and push them, but be careful not to shatter their confidence. It is a brutal task and one that almost never ends in a BCS bowl.
by codaxx on Nov 13, 2011 10:58 AM CST via mobile up reply actions
Despite the negativity, I think we are in year 1 of a 2 year process
I feel pretty strongly that next year we will return to 10 win seasons. And I’m usually overly pessimistic.
by Horncasting on Nov 13, 2011 12:02 PM CST up reply actions
In two years, we are a national contender...
assuming we have improvement at the QB position.
I will say it again...
Maturity/age alone will not make one a more gifted athlete. If you are a mediocre freshman three games removed from the end of the season…odds are you will be a mediocre sophomore, too.
Still Think to Only Lose by 14 with Essentially Back Up of Back Ups on Offense is Pretty Good
Hard to win a game by playing guys who would never see the field otherwise. And our QB situation, well, it is what it is. Not everyone can have a Clemson or a Boise situation where they get a ready-made Frosh.
I like that we didn’t push Brown and Bergeron out there only to further aggravate their injuries. This has always been a rebuilding year for me. Hopefully our QB can improve. If not, hey, there are plenty of bigtime recruits coming in next year, right?
Because we're Texas and we're evil. DUH.
With each passing week I lose a little more confidence in our QBs.
I’m just not seeing the progress on the field. Sure there are little things here and there that have come with experience, but overall, we’re just not getting the kind of production we need.
I have a feeling heading into next season, I’ll find myself hoping for a freshman to put the offense on his shoulders. I know our running game will probably be our bread and butter, but you still need good QB play to be an elite offense.
My source close to the program can beat up your source close to the program!
Been saying that all year
But not a whole lot of people want to hear it. You either get shouted down or cussed at, and sometimes both.
Then again, I don’t suppose Mack has much of a choice. It’s either the kid with the golden arm who can’t hit the side of a barn, or the kid with the noodle arm who can’t even reach the barn. Not much of a choice there, I reckon. Which, if I’m one of those incoming 2012 QBs, I gotta be salivating thinking I might have a really good chance at getting the starting QB gig at the University of Texas in 2012…
Because we're Texas and we're evil. DUH.
by iamjackburton on Nov 13, 2011 11:11 AM CST up reply actions
good summary
Part of what makes this loss discouraging is to have such a strong performance the week before resets our expectations higher than is probably wise. All cylinders firing last week…almost none this week. So yes, it’s disappointing…we all expect better, even when our barrels aren’t loaded with precision artillery.
As you said PB, what I care more about is whether we learn something from this and adjust. There are some short term (apply next week) lessons and those that are much longer term…
- I personally think they were too quick to pull Ash in the 3rd Quarter; Ash will learn through adversity; The only logical reason I could see doing that is if they needed some one-on-one time between Harsin and Ash over the phone to reconsider their approach…but it seemed too long;
- With less than 6 minutes in the game, go for it…every time; Don’t punt; The math isn’t in your favor to get enough opportunities with the ball; Even if it’s 4th & 8; Your defense has performed extremely well all day, particularly inside the 10 yard line, so trust that they will (once again) help your offense out if you fail to convert;
- Utilize your passing opportunities better…especially between 6-12 yards…slants, middle crosses, etc. Hell, even bubbles if you must; There is much work to be done in the passing/receiving area, but you do have some talent there…use it…it might free up the running lanes a bit and could also free up better gaps on the inevitable long bomb;
- Not much I can say about the running game…on paper and when performing, it’s excellent. We’ve just had some really bad luck on injuries. The only challenge to coaching decisions would be when and if we get up by 21 points or more, pull your A-list RB’s / HB’s. Our success has been tenuous this season…limit risk where you can.
- Ash needs to develop speed and discernment. Checking down receiver options, reading a blitz, knowing when (and how) to get out of the pocket and recover a busted play. Hey may need a little bit of Case’s freelancing ability…maybe Ash is TOO regimented?? Does he feel permission to audible and take his act on the road??
- Overall offensive tempo. We look like aerobics class at the Shady Acres Nursing Home as plays develop. The concept of a quarterback “having the game slow down” is that they get quicker thinking….not actually slowing down plays. Safeties and D-backs are taking naps between plays. When can we get to a no-huddle, speed offense? Sure we’ll make mistakes and there is a risk of wearing down our O’line if their conditioning can’t handle the tempo…but it could force the defense into a prevent mode that would allow us a lot more first downs…and momentum.
I’m really disappointed about yesterday’s loss to Mizzou. They are a quality team, but when operating on even 6 of 8 cylinders, the ‘Horns could take them. Not yesterday, but I see potential. This team is not a start-up…it’s a mutual fund. Yesterday was a shocking embarrassment. To his credit, Mack invested in some coaching talent that can (and already is) breathing life into this program. But we are in a recovery mode this year, as predicted. Let’s remember…last year was Code Blue. I think we are out of Intensive Care and are now recuperating at home. I like our potential…
I am forced to conclude that God made Texas on his day off, for pure
entertainment, just to prove that all that diversity could be crammed into one
section of earth by a really top hand
oops....
…in the last graph, I meant to write: “Last year was a shocking embarrassment”…not yesterday.
I am forced to conclude that God made Texas on his day off, for pure
entertainment, just to prove that all that diversity could be crammed into one
section of earth by a really top hand
Tempo
I disagree. I am not sure what advantage up-tempo would provide. It is the new fad. To run up-tempo you need to have people with a firm grasp of the offense. We do not have that. We rely on rushing and defense to win. The major issue with up-tempo attacks is it puts I lot of pressure on your defense. You get 2-3 3 and outs and now you have a worn out defense that is worthless. It promotes shoot-outs. At the stage Texas has zero chance to win a shoot-out. I do not understand encouraging a system that will further stress young players on offense and hinder your best asset (the defense)
That's my point...
To run up-tempo you need to have people with a firm grasp of the offense.
For a few precious moments.....I am back in Old Texas, under a high sky, where all things are again possible and the wind blows free - Larry L. King
On the plus side, Aggy is 5-5 in their "THIS IS OUR YEAR!" year
This was supposed to be their best team in God knows how many years, and they’re now sitting at .500 with the Thanksgiving game against us needed to break into the plus side (I’m guessing even they will be able to beat the hapless Jayhawks).
Don’t mean to have fun at someone else’s expense, but … HAR HAR.
Because we're Texas and we're evil. DUH.
That's my point...
To run up-tempo you need to have people with a firm grasp of the offense.
For a few precious moments.....I am back in Old Texas, under a high sky, where all things are again possible and the wind blows free - Larry L. King
Question for you, Peter
Or anyone else who knows the answer concerning the targeting penalty against Vacaro.
After my yelling at the announcers for what seemed like 5 minutes, one of them finally mentioned that the receiver ducked into the tackle. It certainly looked to me on all the replays that Kenny made a great, legal open field tackle. The receiver lowered his head at the last second, after Kenny had launched himself. Any helmet-to-helmet contact was thus initiated by the receiver, not the tackler.
Was this penalty call challengable? Mack was certainly arguing with the refs, but got nowhere. It occurred to me after the play that a challenge could have been effective, even if the odds of the call being overturned were negligible. It would have sent a signal to the defense that Vacaro did nothing wrong, and given them time to regroup after the horrible blown call.
What do you think?
.
by Longhorn in Canada on Nov 13, 2011 12:28 PM CST reply actions
Penalties are not reviewable
Penalties are not reviewable. They may consult the booth for placement of the ball after a flag but that’s about it. So, short of the judges changing their minds after the call, having a meeting of the minds, and announcing the somewhat infrequent “there is no foul on the play”, the call stands.
Thanks
I suspected that, but wasn’t sure.
.
by Longhorn in Canada on Nov 13, 2011 1:32 PM CST up reply actions
Isn't the defense suppose to target the ball carrier? All get is a penalty if you tackle anyone else.
Vaccaro got a personal foul for either helmet to helmet contact or something about tackling to high.
So in helmet to helmet contact why is the defensive player the only one penalized . It takes 2 helmets to create they contact why is there no blame on the offense? You see a running back lead with his head all the time but never penalized. In fact you see a RB stiff arm a tackler in the face and not get called for a personal foul like a defensive player would. You could try to argue that the offensive player always try to ovoid contact but we know that’s not true.
If a running back would run as low a possible and lead with his head, how would is be possible to tackle them legally? From behind? as a defensive player you can’t really touch the head of the person with the ball anymore, do you just lay down in front of them and hope they trip? The best bet is to just stand in the way and let them run into you.
Defenseless player wording
My guess is that “defenseless player” wording is applied when throwing a flag:
“Penalties to curb dangerous contact will continue to be called against players who target the head and neck area of defenseless players. This includes initial contact with a forearm, elbow, shoulder or helmet. A 15-yeard penalty will be enforced on these violations. In egregious situations, officials may eject the offending player.”
Rule changes to protect players
So in your scenario, the defenders running towards the ball carrier are not defenseless. However, the RB can still be benefit from a targeting call is the defenders purposely target his head.
I would like to see this rule changed ...
… I propose it should include the following
“The initiation of any contact with a defenseless player with the finger, thumb, hand, forearm, elbow, biceps, shoulder, thigh, groin or helmet must be preceded by a curtsy performed within three yards of the defenseless player. A 15-yeard penalty will be enforced on these violations. In egregious situations, officials may require the offending player to perform a Texas Dip prior to subsequent such contact for the remainder of the game.”
I think safety and etiquette would be well served by this.
Hook ’em,
BO&B
by BurntOrange&Blue on Nov 13, 2011 4:20 PM CST up reply actions
Quick/intermediate passing game
I’d like to see a breakdown of why exactly our quick/intermediate passing game is MIA. I’m no Xs and Os expert, but it seems like it would promote quicker, confidence-building decisions from the QB and make pass protection a little easier on the OL. But instead, we’re still seeing a lot of long-developing deep fades (in high wind, from a freshman QB who has a hard enough time connecting on them in perfect weather) with the occasional dump-off.
I saw a couple of drops in this range yesterday, including one from Hales. But on the whole, I’m not seeing us succeed or fail a lot at this, which makes me wonder if we’re not trying for it.
Flashback to Pre-season, compliments of Scipio Tex:
A good and humorous reminder from August, 2011:
http://barkingcarnival.fantake.com/2011/08/30/2011-texas-football-preview-the-longhorn-state-of-the-union/
And I quote…
Conclusion
I’m excited about this season. The Horns will be ridiculously young (12 underclassmen starting), will make plenty of mistakes, and can’t afford injury, but they’re going to play good schematic football and play hard. We’re standing at the bottom of the Grand Canyon. Hiking out will be tough, but the view at the top will be all the more rewarding for having suffered.
Let’s cinch our packs, quit worrying about the distance, and start walking.
Hook ‘em.
I am forced to conclude that God made Texas on his day off, for pure
entertainment, just to prove that all that diversity could be crammed into one
section of earth by a really top hand
quoting #fail. everything below "Conclusion" is Scipio Tex's.
I am forced to conclude that God made Texas on his day off, for pure
entertainment, just to prove that all that diversity could be crammed into one
section of earth by a really top hand
The Defense
has played well all year. Ironically, our weakest players are the most experienced. Let’s hope we can develop some great safeties in the coming years.
You can’t really expect to win if you are missing that many impact players. Ask Oklahoma. Still can’t believe Tech beat them.
I go back and forth on Ash. Part of me is happy to chalk all of this up to inexperience. He’s not THAT bad. But he doesn’t seem like the the guy, and its not entirely because of a lack of talent. I wish he showed more leadership. More desire. I don’t need another Colt or Vince (though I wouldn’t complain), but I want more consistency. Just be servicable. Be good enough to give our receivers a shot.
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