Case McCoy Named Starting Texas Quarterback
by Wescott Eberts (GoBR) on Nov 28, 2011 12:38 PM CST
in Texas Longhorns Football
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There's finally one quarterback atop the Texas deep chart heading into the season finale against Baylor on Saturday and his name is Case McCoy.
After having been listed as the co-starter with freshman David Ash ever since Garrett Gilbert was demoted, McCoy's name now stands alone after engineering the game-winning drive against Texas A&M on Thursday, capped by his 25-yard run that put the 'Horns in field goal range.
As usual with McCoy, whose play seemingly can't be discussed without mentioning his record-setting brother or devolving into cliches about his intangibles, the performance was far from pretty and at times quite ugly. The Longhorns struggled to move the ball early as the sophomore quarterback struggled with his footwork and at times threw dangerous passes across his body.
Later in the game, just as the offense appeared to gain rhythm in the running game, McCoy inexplicably took a delay of game penalty that put the team behind the chains on second down, killing the drive and earning himself a tongue lashing from offensive lineman Mason Walters.
The ultimate factor in his ascension to the top of the depth chart is his ability to avoid turnovers, according to Mack Brown, an area in which Ash struggled noticeably during his last several starts. Although defenses have had several opportunities to intercept McCoy on the season, it hasn't happened yet. Whether that's mainly a factor of luck or strong decision making is tough to tell, bu the end result is that McCoy has not suffered from the crippling interceptions that have slowed the Texas offense under Ash and put the defense in difficult situations, especially in the Kansas State game.
It may be ugly with McCoy, who is seemingly allergic to stepping into his passes and likes to bail from the pocket early, but he did enough to win against A&M in a monumentally important game and that seems to be his preferred, and perhaps only, mode of operation at this point. But a win is a win, even if it happens comes in a less than aesthetically pleasing package.
McCoy seems to believe in himself as much or more as any of his supporters, so there's little doubt that he believes he can make the plays with the game on the line to pull it at, certainly a favorable quality for a starting quarterback in a high-pressure environment.
Brown also said Monday that Ash will continue to see the field at times with his package of plays, but if the Texas A&M game was any indication, he will only see the field for a handful of plays. If there's any factor that plays in his favor, it's that the Baylor run defense is much more ripe for exploitation than the stout A&M front.
In other depth chart news, leading receiver Mike Davis has been demoted on the depth chart and is now behind Jaxon Shipley, while Miles Onyegbule moved into a starting role opposite his fellow freshman. Davis has been a major disappointment this season and dropped several passes against the Aggies. Mack Brown revealed Monday that Davis has been dealing with a hip strain, but that doesn't account for his inability to catch passes thrown his direction.
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Well, good for him
Would like to see him legitimately earn the spot this week, and Baylor presents all the opportunity in the world for it.
I do guess Mack prescribes to the thought that he’d rather be lucky than good. Funny how circumstances always seem to fall in Case’s favor. Whether it’s a pick 6 from Byndom, or the other two picks the defense snagged, or the huge Diggs return, or the mindless unsportsmanlike penalty on Mike D, we had a lot of balls roll our direction that we didn’t have against Missouri, or Kansas State. But hey, if that good fortune holds serve for two more games, by all means ride it.
Hook 'em! @michaelpelech10 on Twitter
by The Audit Horn on Nov 28, 2011 12:50 PM CST via mobile reply actions
Wow, you sound like you totally mean that "good for him" part, TAH
/smirk
Because we're Texas and we're evil. DUH.
by iamjackburton on Nov 28, 2011 1:12 PM CST up reply actions
I meant it
He is, by most accounts, a good kid. Goes to my church. His teammates like him. I seriously doubt he has the ability to continue to be successful, and I believe he seriously limits this team’s potential, but if he continues to defy odds and this team wins games , more power to him.
Hook 'em! @michaelpelech10 on Twitter
by The Audit Horn on Nov 28, 2011 1:15 PM CST via mobile up reply actions
"Limit"? You mean like throw interceptions?
I’m sorry, but you and all the other Ash fans seem incredibly hung up on “what should have happened” with Case while conveniently ignoring what HAS happened with Ash. That is just incredibly illogical to me. I honestly don’t have any allegiances to these two kids, but the blind love for Ash’s “tangibles” despite all the evidence to the contrary just astounds me. Were you this gung ho for GG throughout 2010, too?
Because we're Texas and we're evil. DUH.
by iamjackburton on Nov 28, 2011 1:39 PM CST up reply actions 3 recs
Wow, you sure like being antagonistics to your fellow fans.
I think what TAH means, if I may make some assumptions, is that there is a definite “limit”, as in CEILING. Case has got a lot going for him, but considering football is a PHYSICAL game, your physical attributes ultimately determine your level of success. In the case of Case, we’ll see after the next two games + the off-season what his physical ceiling is.
Limitations
As in, his inability to stand in a clean pocket. Inability to stretch the field vertically. Inability to throw to something other than a wide open receiver within ten yards of the LOS. Leading receiver this game was Marquise Goodwin, with 8 catches for 60 yards. Haven’t had the chance to watch the game again, but I’d be willing to bet a fair share of those were screen passes.
So yes, limits.
Hook 'em! @michaelpelech10 on Twitter
by The Audit Horn on Nov 28, 2011 1:52 PM CST via mobile up reply actions 3 recs
they were screen passes and you're right
he hasn’t been able to stretch the field. I don’t think anyone here is jumping on one side or another, we all want to see UT win. GG couldn’t get it done, he had or has more talent than McCoy and Ash together, but couldn’t make it work, even when his running game got better. We all fell in love with GG, he had all the “tools” and was just all around better than Colt. Always have to be careful what you wish for.
by TheRealDirtyP1 on Nov 28, 2011 1:56 PM CST up reply actions
Does Ash not also "seriously limit" this team's potential?
Do you believe Ash’s shortcomings are easier to coach out of him than Case’s?
Yes
Hook 'em! @michaelpelech10 on Twitter
by The Audit Horn on Nov 28, 2011 5:06 PM CST via mobile up reply actions
+1
Ash is a better QB now and also a better prospect than McCoy, imho. He was playing without ANY help….no Brown, no Bergeron, no Shipley, no Defensive turnovers or short fields. Ash isn’t perfect, but he seems to be a much better prospect than McCoy, who I think is a waste of time, a short-sighted choice, and a bad reaction in a position to a squad’s injuries and schemes. Was Ash throwing to the wrong ahoulder at times? Yes. Does Case come up 5 yards short several times a game? Yes. Does Ash read schemes well? I would say yes…his picks are physical execution, not reads, which should be an easier fix. Does McCoy just run around until he finds our one good receiver or takes a sack? Yes. Has McCoy gotten better pass blocking than Ash? I would also say yes to this.
Anyway, I have nothing against Case…and I’m grateful for the win at A&M…I just think Ash has more upside. Regardless, I hope Harsin can develop whomever gives us the best shot to throw to all parts of the field next season! Because, the thing is, if we can only run the ball or attempt short passes the box will be loaded every down and that’s going to be hard to handle in this conference…especially since we’re losing a lot on D after this season. Even if Kenny stays and I bet our losses translate into giving up more points. And i don’t know that we’ll ever see a short passing machine like McCoy to Shipley again…not even in their brothers.
wait, don't you have that backwards?
Ash was playing with a healthy Bergeron and Brown. McCoy had very injury-limited versions of each.
"Anti-intellectualism has been a constant thread winding its way through our political and cultural life, nurtured by the false notion that democracy means that 'my ignorance is just as good as your knowledge.'"
― Isaac Asimov
by burntorangehorn on Nov 29, 2011 8:29 AM CST up reply actions
Re:
He was playing without ANY help….no Brown, no Bergeron
Malcolm Brown and Bergeron both played against KState. David Ash still managed to throw two picks.
Let’s not kid ourselves, Brown was little help against A&M (2.29 ypc). Bergeron didn’t play. And, Shipley, while he was certainly helpful at the WR position, still isn’t the gamebreaker that he was earlier in the year, and appears to be at less than 100%.
Does Ash read schemes well? I would say yes…his picks are physical execution, not reads, which should be an easier fix.
It’s not just the picks (some of which I’d argue are poor reads), but he’s got GG syndrome where he’s locking onto guys and not progressing through his reads. For all of Case’s problems, he actually sees the field fairly well when he manages to stay in the pocket. Footwork and delivery are another issue, but his progressions are better than Ash.
No doubt Ash has more “upside”, but I’d caution you on getting to caught up in those tangibles. Production trumps tangibles, especially at the amateur level.
I think most here are desperate to find the next Texas great at QB. We’ve all been spoiled the past few years. Unfortunately, that QB probably isn’t on this roster. In that vein, it’s less about finding the guy who’s going to win us games, and more about identifying the quarterback who won’t lose us games.
Nicely said
I’ll add that upside and tangibles are exactly what Gilbert had in spades, and while the guy could possibly have become a young star if he’d gone to another program, it didn’t make a difference as things were. Upside definitely isn’t the most important factor.
"Anti-intellectualism has been a constant thread winding its way through our political and cultural life, nurtured by the false notion that democracy means that 'my ignorance is just as good as your knowledge.'"
― Isaac Asimov
by burntorangehorn on Nov 29, 2011 5:57 PM CST up reply actions
There are several issues at the QB spot
The primary issue that I see is little QB development during game situations. That hurt Gilbert his freshman year and hurt McCoy this year. I think this team does a better job recruiting QBs than it did developing them. Second, the QB shuffle earlier this year, while flawed, certainly played out better than forcing a single QB to play the entire game. Third, for whatever reason, Case plays lucky. Lots of “could have been” sacks and interceptions, but those haven’t happened. Gilbert threw lots of INTs, and so has Ash. I don’t care if McCoy doesn’t meet the “QB standard”, throws weak, or whatever issues there are out there, he plays wild but to win. Given the lack of a QB of RG III standards on the team, I will accept what we have and what works.
by SaltWaterCroc on Nov 29, 2011 10:28 AM CST up reply actions
Fumbles != turn overs?
I think he is just very lucky to not have thrown a pick. It is amazing he hasn’t fumbled more the way he self sacks. He probably is the best bet to turn it over less for the remaining games. Also, Baylor’s D will probably make either of our QBs look good (or at least not bad). I feel good about this game no matter who starts.
I loved that 25 yard self sack Case had in the aTm game.
Ash has been sacked to the tune of 200 yards this season. who is the self sacker?
Davis demotion richly deserved ...
Go back and look at the Davis helmet-to-helmet. The ball was definitely catchable. Davis appears to play scared at times.
I will change my legal name to "I. M. Harsin" if Texas scores on a Statue of Liberty or Hook-and-Ladder vs. OU."
by Distributor of the Football on Nov 28, 2011 1:12 PM CST via mobile reply actions 1 recs
He had a very bad, alligator-armed, night of football vs. amuT ...
… to match his season of inability to play the long ball, where he’s had ample opportunity. Kid needs the benching.
In before the Case bashers ... (though The Audit Horn has obviously already beaten me to it)
…Case has a noodle arm … he runs around too much … he’s “lucky” and not “good” … he should have already thrown 100 interceptions … Plus he looks funny and is not handsome like David Ash.
That about does it, guys?
Oh, and did I mention he’s been extremely lucky and should have thrown 100 interceptions but because of that damn “luck”, hasn’t?
Because we're Texas and we're evil. DUH.
How am I bashing the kid?
I think he’s a limited football player. How is that bashing him?
Hook 'em! @michaelpelech10 on Twitter
by The Audit Horn on Nov 28, 2011 1:16 PM CST via mobile up reply actions
I agree with you.
You weren’t bashing him. It’s funny how opinion gets taken for criticism.
I was all in for David Ash. He didn’t quite cut it, so now i’m pulling for Case. However, Like Audit Horn, I feel Case is pretty lucky. His mechanics are not good and he really does bail from the pocket really quickly.
With that said, he is the starting Quarterback, so I will root for him.
Me: "Hunny, how much is our Wedding budget?"
Fiance`"No, You can't have Craig Way call our wedding.."
Me: "Damnit.."
in the end
you can not honestly pt to TAMU as proof of deserving. Case led the offense to 3 pts. Lets root for him and hope it continues. I would say pray, but I reserve that for praying for Ash or Case to make a huge leap before next season. Case is the answer for Baylor. The answer for 2012 clearly has not been found.
+1 and Agreed
Me: "Hunny, how much is our Wedding budget?"
Fiance`"No, You can't have Craig Way call our wedding.."
Me: "Damnit.."
Vince Young is not going to walk through that door, kids
It’s Case, the kid who wins and doesn’t turn the ball over, or Ash, the kid who doesn’t win and turns the ball over. I don’t care which one of them can chuck it 100 yards down the field, I just want him to do it when SOMEONE IS THERE to catch it.
Because we're Texas and we're evil. DUH.
by iamjackburton on Nov 28, 2011 1:36 PM CST up reply actions 1 recs
Hey man, you need to calm down.
There are other people here who also want QBs to throw the ball to people and win games. I think we’re allowed to analyze players beyond just the outcome of games.
I told the people of my district that I would serve them as faithfully as I had done; but if not ... you may all go to hell, and I will go to Texas. -- Davey Crockett
by pleaseplaykindle on Nov 28, 2011 1:41 PM CST up reply actions
he didnt win
why do people make ridiculous statements like that. The team won the game. His contribution was well down the list. Lets not make it more than it it. Plus what is with the obsession of going after Ash? Kid is 18 and he proved he was not ready to play. Not sure having you and all the internet snipers dump on him is going to keep him here. Perhaps, you can ask that of yourself when you look around hte country next yr and see 3 FORMER UT QBs starting
which 3? GG will be out another year, can't play next season.
by TheRealDirtyP1 on Nov 28, 2011 2:21 PM CST up reply actions
Question for those who know more than I do?
GG played in only two games, and I believe the limit is the injury must occur before the midpoint in the season. By those standards he is eligible for a medical redshirt.
Is GG eligible for a medical redshirt or does his release during the season disqualify him from that? If he is granted a medical hardship, does he still have to sit out a season before he is eligible?
by LonghorninRaiderland on Nov 28, 2011 4:28 PM CST up reply actions
My understanding
Medical redshirt for 2011, redshirts during transfer year in 2012, eligible as a RS-Junior in 2013.
Hook 'em! @michaelpelech10 on Twitter
by The Audit Horn on Nov 28, 2011 5:08 PM CST via mobile up reply actions
Kinne, Colt, and Adam Dunn
by BeeCaveHornFan on Nov 28, 2011 9:38 PM CST via mobile up reply actions
I think the obsession all year has been building up Ash.
Your right , the team won the game. Case was good on the last drive. A&M knew we would not run it, we had one penalty , 3 completed passes and a solid run from a beat up Case McCoy to get us down to the 23 yardline for the winning field goal.
I would not call that well down the list. It was crucial for the win.
me?
I have said it was a nice drive. last drive complete 2 yd pass, 7 yd, and a 4 yd pass and a 25 yd scramble. It was nice. His contribution is way below the defense. He led the offense to 3 pts I am simply a realist. The offense had 17 drives. 12 were 3 and out. 70% of our drives were 3 and out. Sorry, but that sucks. This is the game you are laying your hat on. He had 2 passes for first downs. Averaged 6.9 yds per completion and 4.1 per attempt. Again garbage numbers. On the scoring drives not one pass was completed other than the final drive. If not for the final drive, I would have given Case an F for the game. His performance is the reason the game was close. This is why I say he is down the list. Well below guys like Byndom, Diggs, Okafor, and Robinson.
I know you didn't meant it this way, but....
His performance is the reason the game was close.
Had he turned the ball over like Ash did against K-State, he wouldn’t have been in a position to win in the 4th Quarter.
IF
- I could say Goodwin was the reason for the first turnover. You are assuming he throws 2 int, which is a big assumption. We have no idea. You can not say going 3 and out on 70% of your possessions is accomplishing something. If that is the bar I will be the QB and throw it into the stands every time. To win or accomplish, is a verb.It implies an action, not inaction.
Lets look at the difference in KSU, Mizzu, vs TAMU.
TAMU: defense/sp scores essentially 17 pts, we win by 2
KansasState: defense/sp scores 0. we lose by 4
Mizzu: defense/sp scores 0. we lose by 12.
seems to me offensive out-put is very similar. I have stated give McCoy the job. Lets root for him, but please do not say he is getting the job done. Our QB situation is a mess and we need either QB to make huge strides this off-season. I have 0 problem with Case having the starting job. I have huge issues with people saying he is the reason we won and is a savior
Where did I say any of this?
I can’t know for sure about Ash turning the ball over, of course. Past results aren’t always indicative of future performance. Still, if previous games were any indication, I’d say that at least one turnover was likely. I don’t think that’s a stretch.
All I’ve noted is that Case is not turning the ball over. That, and that alone makes him an upgrade. My all other metrics, he’s basically equal in production to Ash.
He may not be the reason we won, per say. But, he also wasn’t the reason we lost (obviously). That’s all I’m really saying. Nothing more, nothing less.
Vince Young isn't on the roster?
Damn. I’m so disillusioned now. What will I ever do?
Nobody is saying that either QB is Vince. We don’t need Vince right now. But it’s an absolutely silly venture to say that we beat Aggie because Case McCoy is so oozing of intangibles that he willed us to victory. Of the last three games, our one win game when we forced 4 TOs, 3 INTs, one INT returned for a TD, and had a Quandre Diggs punt return set us up for a FG. We beat Aggie because they went full Aggie on us. How many of those gift-wrapped presents did Mizzou or K-State serve up?
The 25 yard run was surprising and great. Thank the lord he wasn’t annihilated at the end, or get the ball ripped out of his hands. For all his headiness and leadermanshability, I’ll never understand why he doesn’t go down there. But to act like he’s the reason we won, and that Ash couldn’t have won that game, is silly. You’re telling me Ash couldn’t make that run? You’re telling me Ash couldn’t have made the throw into the endzone to a wide open Shipley on a fade from the slot?
Neither QB has gone out and performed to the point where it’s unquestionable. It’s awfully funny how everyone hated anointing Garrett as the QB, or anointing Ash as the QB, when this smells a lot like anointing to me.
Hook 'em! @michaelpelech10 on Twitter
by The Audit Horn on Nov 28, 2011 1:48 PM CST via mobile up reply actions
Not Vince
How about Tebow?
Before you criticize someone, walk a mile in their shoes. If they get mad, you're a mile away AND you have their shoes.
Honestly
I’d take the equivalent of the NFL Tebow. Dynamic in run game, zero TOs. Brings a tangible on-field benefit.
Hook 'em! @michaelpelech10 on Twitter
by The Audit Horn on Nov 28, 2011 2:01 PM CST via mobile up reply actions
He deserves to be named starter this week. Probably the bowl game, too.
He’s earned that right. This doesn’t look like an anointing to me. The next two games will tell us a lot about what McCoy can and cannot do. For the record, I agree with your assessments of him because I share them myself.
No one will ever know if Ash could have won that game. My gut tells me he would not have. If quarterbacking was only about athletic ability, Garrett Gilbert would be taking first-team reps in practice today.
I’ve seen a lot of postings in the last couple days that indicate Brewer will definitely redshirt now. Really? I hope, and cautiously believe, that the QB competition will be opened up in spring practice and that the best guy will win it. But history tells us this has not always been the case in the Mack Brown era
Simplicity is always the secret, to a profound truth, to doing things, to writing, to painting. Life is profound in its simplicity. - Charles Bukowski
by windycityhorn on Nov 28, 2011 2:06 PM CST up reply actions
The bowl practices will be nice
Get both Ash and Case the practice they need heading into the offseason. Maybe the game slows down for Ash, maybe Case overhauls his mechanics and footwork. One of then needs to be the guy moving forward next year. Not a world beater, just competent.
I’m as big a Brewer fan as there is. The kid has all the mechanics, footwork, accuracy, and leader of men mentality that you need here. I think he’ll be special. But no way do I want him to see the field next year. Let Benny bulk him up for a year and a half, let him ease into the huge jump from AZ HS ball. This continual trial-by-fire on-to-the-next-guy style of QB management is a self fulfilling prophecy I have no desire of feeding further. Bite the bullet, play Ash or Case next year. If we still have a problem in 2013, then let RS-Freshman Brewer compete.
With that said, I think Overstreet contributes on the field next year, likely as a wildcat QB.
Hook 'em! @michaelpelech10 on Twitter
by The Audit Horn on Nov 28, 2011 2:18 PM CST via mobile up reply actions
Now that I think of it, I agree
Brewer probably should shirt unless he sets the world on fire in August.
People are probably sick of me saying it by now but it’s what I believe: The next championship quarterback has not yet taken a snap at Texas.
But I, and others, have looked at the roster and thought 2013 seemed like the year for a BCS run. I hope we have the right guy under center by then.
Simplicity is always the secret, to a profound truth, to doing things, to writing, to painting. Life is profound in its simplicity. - Charles Bukowski
by windycityhorn on Nov 28, 2011 2:35 PM CST up reply actions
Agreed
Split the practice reps, but if Texas keeps getting “lucky” with Case keep him @ QB the bowl game and 2012. Sprinkle in a little bit of Ash every now and then kind of like Tebow and florida in 2006 and some Overstreet at wildcat.
The most important thing is that Case( or whoever is QB which is Case) finally proves to all the fans he should be our QB. End the debate before Spring practice. Most importantly that means the offense needs to help us win a game and not have us rely on our D shutting down RGIII the whole time. I do think Case is the most competent of the 2, Ash tries too hard to be the world beater and hasn’t been competent to this point. I do think its fair that its now Case’s job to lose, but would love ash to progress mentally to be the QB. As long as Case gets his chance
Also we can’t play UCLA in our bowl game. That will make the bowl kind of Moot, it needs to be someone else.
There is nothing.....
…. about Case McCoy’s play that should cause Brewer to want a RS. There most certainly is nothing about Case McCoy’s play that should have Mack Brown not wanting all the possible competition at the QB position.
--- All roads to the Big-XII Championship lead through OU/RRS. It's not just another game! We're all about championships here. ---
I'm not saying anything about the current QBs
By desiring a Brewer RS. Just saying it’s a smart move for the future. Playing Brewer before he’s ready could ruin him, and I don’t think he’s physically ready yet. AZ HS ball ain’t nothing special, and the kid is pretty small right now. Tired of continually moving onto the next QB before he is ready.
Just build the pipeline, even if it moves the product slow right now. Tired of having to patch holes every mile.
Hook 'em! @michaelpelech10 on Twitter
by The Audit Horn on Nov 28, 2011 2:50 PM CST via mobile up reply actions
Brewer
Sounds like he will enroll early. So we will know pretty early. I think he gets thrown in fast. I could see a 50/30/20 split with first team in the spring with case, ash, and brewer.
I expect the same
Get him practice and summer work early. But unless it’s above and beyond apparent that he’s the guy, don’t risk it. Try the guys that are already on the roster out. I mean geez, how hard will it be with Brown/Bergeron/Gray in the backfield?
I do think Case and Ash can be molded into the competent QBs we need. I think Ash is more likely to be the guy next year if the game slows down for him and he gets a grasp on anticipation and timing. But Case can step up and be a guy too. Add a little weight, work on the mechanics and footwork, and get a little more comfortable in the pocket. He doesn’t need, and likely will never have, an elite arm, but he won’t need it if he gets to throw into single coverage all year next year.
Hook 'em! @michaelpelech10 on Twitter
by The Audit Horn on Nov 28, 2011 3:02 PM CST via mobile up reply actions
footwork
that is the key for both, especially Ash. I think he is reasonably accurate when he throws with his feet under him. Tends to breakdown and hurry his throw. That is when he seems to air mail it. Only Brett Favre can succeed like that.
Right
His footwork gets worse when things start getting rough. Just doesn’t seem to understand the appropriate throw at times. Sometimes puts air under it when it should be zipped, or vice versa. Sometimes pumps when it’s unnecessary. Sometimes throws before he is set. I think those are things that come with time and comfort with the speed of the game. Stop being mechanical, and just play football.
Hook 'em! @michaelpelech10 on Twitter
by The Audit Horn on Nov 28, 2011 3:08 PM CST via mobile up reply actions
We also need some receivers and pass blocking
That said, my big concerns for Ash are…
1) throwing to the correct shoulder (timing)
2) feeling fee to impersnate Colt and bolt for a quick 5 or 7 when there’s time but no one open because the D just drops everyone and dares you to throw…like when Malcolm and Joe were on the bench with Fozzy.
Wow.
But to act like he’s the reason we won, and that Ash couldn’t have won that game, is silly. You’re telling me Ash couldn’t make that run?
Ash couldn’t have made that run because Ash wouldn’t have been in that position. With the exception of the ISU game (when he didn’t run the traditional offense) and the TTU game, Ash has thrown at least one interception. And, I guess that just goes away against Aggie?
You’re telling me Ash couldn’t have made the throw into the endzone to a wide open Shipley on a fade from the slot?
Ash would have made that throw to Shipley? Hell, I saw Ash turn the ball over to one of the worst defenses in the country (Kansas) in the redzone. Ash hasn’t thrown a touchdown pass since the OU game!!! I feel like I’m taking crazy pills. Has his mega arm brain washed you? How could you possibly project that situation into a touchdown when the kid hasn’t thrown a TD pass in 5 games?
Take a deep breath
Remember the touchdown throw against OU What was the playcall? What was the route? Outside WR ran a slant, Shipley gets wide open on a fade from the slot. That is the exact same play, route, and throw, that McCoy missed Saturday.
The scramble? Ash picked up a first down on 3rd-10 late against Mizzou while taking on 3 defenders. Also had the 47 yard pickup against Tech against a similar look.
Does Ash throw a pick against Aggie if he sees the time? Maybe. That secondary is awful. But to act that McCoy made plays Ash either hasn’t, or is incapable of, IS silly.
I’m not brainwashed by some mega-arm, just presenting the facts. Are you brainwashed by the name on the back of the jersey, or has a 25 yard run struck you with amnesia? Did you forget 58 mins where our offense was 3 and out, screens to Goodwin, and sacks against a 3 man rush? Yes, Case had 0 INTs. That makes his grade a D instead of an F.
Hook 'em! @michaelpelech10 on Twitter
by The Audit Horn on Nov 28, 2011 5:17 PM CST via mobile up reply actions
Re:
Remember the touchdown throw against OU What was the playcall? What was the route?
1 Throw ≠ All throws
Sure, it was the same throw, but I think it’s a little much to say with certainty that Ash makes that throw. And, I’ll add, that I’m not entirely sure that the incompletion was all on McCoy, anyways. Typically, you’d like to see Shipley get a little better depth on that throw. Not that it matters. You’re assuming that this is a designed playcall that explicitly defines the primary read to Shipley, which may or may not have been the case. His issues aren’t his physical skillset…it’s what’s going on upstairs. In that sense, he may not have identified that opportunity in the first place.
The scramble? Ash picked up a first down on 3rd-10 late against Mizzou while taking on 3 defenders. Also had the 47 yard pickup against Tech against a similar look.
Maybe I’m not explaining myself well. It’s not that Ash isn’t capable of making that run. It’s that he’s such a turnover machine that he likely isn’t in a spot to make that play late in the game anyways.
Does Ash throw a pick against Aggie if he sees the time? Maybe. That secondary is awful. But to act that McCoy made plays Ash either hasn’t, or is incapable of, IS silly.
Ash is capable of making all the plays that Case made. No doubt he can also do things that Case cannot. It’s the plays that Case didn’t make (read: turnovers) that made all the difference.
The point to take home here isn’t that Case is some superstar. It’s that Ash, for now at least, has been horrid at the QB position…statistically one of the worst in the country.
I see the Ash apologist in you because I defended Gilbert in the same manner. At least for this year, I think it’s time you accept that Ash isn’t the QB you thought he could be, despite all his amazing tangibles. Only then can the healing process begin…
Apologist? No no no, realist.
Apologist is saying the miss in the end zone was Shipley running the wrong route, or discrediting the fact that one QB made a specific throw and the other did not.
You want to bring up what goes on upstairs? What is it that causes Case’s happy feet? Or what gets him sacked on 3 man blitzes (hint: it’s not the line or coverage)? Don’t confuse a lack of INTs for indications that he’s got it all together upstairs.
Hook 'em! @michaelpelech10 on Twitter
by The Audit Horn on Nov 28, 2011 6:20 PM CST via mobile up reply actions
I think you confuse my argument as one that is intended to somehow convince you (and others) that Case is a good quarterback, or even average. I'm not.
Nor do I need to. Ash has been that bad. No where did I say that Case has got it together upstairs. Or even that he’s really a competent quarterback. I’m not impressed by the kid. Let’s make that much clear. I was yelling with the rest of the Longhorn contingent on Saturday when he wouldn’t get down on his scramble.
Yet, despite all these amazingly glaring weaknesses, he’s still explicitly better, to me, if only for the fact that he’s minimizing turnovers, which it would seem you believe is just a matter of an amazing string of luck.
Apologist is saying the miss in the end zone was Shipley running the wrong route, or discrediting the fact that one QB made a specific throw and the other did not.
I’ve got to get back to this though. You disagree on Shipley’s depth on the fade, and that’s fine. I’m not really interested in getting into that argument, and it’s not productive for that matter.
That said, certainly you can see that Ash is a different QB today versus against OU. I believe that Ash has actually regressed in this offense, and I still think it’s a pretty big leap to just assume that Ash makes the right read there considering he’s been making the wrong reads for the past two games, and an additional cardinal sin in the endzone against Kansas.
Ash would have lost this game
He was lost when he was out there. Totally confused.
This is fact, rewatch the game.
Interceptions
I know you were being a bit sarcastic in your post, but in all honesty, case should have thrown a few picks this year. He has had a handful of throws that hit the defender right in the chest/hands. Off the top of my head I can think of the deep ball against UCLA that ended with a Davis catch and against KSU he overthrew a receiver and hit the safety right in the chest.
That said, I support Case starting the rest of the year, but hope this isn’t a long term decision by the coaching staff. Hopefully there is another QB competition in the spring.
We'll see
if Case doesn’t improve. He could be the long term solution if he progresses. He has been “lucky” but i do think some of that takes skill. I think the McCoy name makes teams scared to pick him off . Or as the haters would say( not anyone specifically would say) " The players see how bad McCoy is and don’t pick him off because he sucks and they want him @ QB"
Really?
Was the comment abt other teams not wanting to intercept McCoy because of his last name serious? Hard to tell internet sarcasm these days.
by TxHorns989 on Nov 28, 2011 4:14 PM CST via mobile up reply actions
Not really
I’m just suggesting theories other than it being Case himself.
Maybe he throws such awful passes that the d can’t physically intercept him.
Or probably he sucks so badly that teams don’t want him to be benched.
Or maybe he isn’t as bad as most here think he is, and creates his own “luck” when it comes to interceptions. Over 100 attempts with 0 picks is pretty damn impressive
Yes
His balls thrown have been interceptable. The UCLA dep throw is picked off 19 out of 20 times. He’s done a good job of limiting turnovers but it’s hard to say that some of those balls don’t get picked off against competent teams (much like Ash has been)
But it wasn't
So it doesn’t matter.
For whatever reason it is, Case has yet to throw an int. No matter how interceptable his passes are, though none of them have been as bad as Ash’s last pass/int off his back foot into double coverage versus Kstate, that buried us in that game.
With that being said, Case turns the ball over less than Ash, and neither move the ball. So its good Case gets to start because he’s the better of the two. The jury is still out on whether Case can become a decent college QB, he’s not broken unlike Ash may be.
Once again Mack mishandles QBs. I thought from the start Case shouldn’t have lost the job, and have been proven right. It was a waste of 5 games of valuable time for Case though. I wanted Case to get 70-80% of snaps and Ash the rest so Ash could progress and our team would have the best chance to win, since I didn’t think Ash was ready. I also thought a bad season could ruin Ash which it may have, and if Ash really had the upside I wouldn’t have crushed his confidence like the coaches have. Basically Ash has been worse than the 2nd coming of Gilbert, but that’s not even fair because with Gilbert we didn’t have a run game like we did for KU and Tech. If we throw brewer into the fire next season, I expect the same results with him, and Mack should consider retiring
by Mclovin1035 on Nov 29, 2011 10:55 AM CST up reply actions
stop the lollygagging
that’s fine if he’s the starter. but his lackadaisical approach to the line of scrimmage really gets on my nerves. get some sense of urgency and quit acting like it’s a flag football game. and take a chance over the middle occasionally. otherwise, proceed as usual.
"you can destroy a man, but you cannot defeat him." - e.h.
I think you have to blame the receivers some.
They are used to reaching behind them to get the Ash passes. When it comes to them they are a little surprised.
3rd Degree Longhorn
And how ...
I was blabbing all weekend about how it was nice to have our #1 receiver back (Shipley) and that Goodwin has probably become the #2 guy. I can only wonder how they woudl play if Harris was back. I believe that a group of receivers who catch everything thrown at them make a QB look better. Neither Ash nor McCoy have had much of that this season. The QB limitations would seem less obvious if they had a better corps of ball catchers.
by Inveigled&Foozled on Nov 28, 2011 2:29 PM CST up reply actions
None of the last 3 QBs throw catchable balls
Gilbert threw at ankles (accuracy), Ash threw behind (anticipation and timing), and Case throws ducks that take too long to arrive (noodle arm). Doesn’t matter which QB is there, you either gotta stretch out and come down with the ball, or catch and hold on knowing the DB had enough time to come down on you.
Hook 'em! @michaelpelech10 on Twitter
by The Audit Horn on Nov 28, 2011 2:39 PM CST via mobile up reply actions
case
throws an easy ball to catch. He doesnt have a gun, so not a ton of heat on it. Plenty of things to hammer Case on, but throwing uncatchable balls isnot one of them
He puts it where it needs to be
If it’s not a long pass. But the longer the pass, the longer it takes to get there. It affects timing, and it allows time for defenders to adjust to the ball. He throws a catchable ball if it’s two players standing in a vacuum. But it’s a factor if there’s a LB or DB bearing down on a WR that’s waiting for a pass.
Hook 'em! @michaelpelech10 on Twitter
by The Audit Horn on Nov 28, 2011 3:04 PM CST via mobile up reply actions
But honestly
if the ball hits you in the hands you should come down with the ball! A lot of these balls hit them square in the hands so I’m not sure how that’s Case’s fault. However the long balls are a problem I agree.
"Deion never played quarterback in the National Football League, so his comments are based off the other side of the ball. If you play my position and criticism can really affect you and hurt you and make you play differently, then you’re only gonna be around for so long anyway. The whole objective is to keep getting better. Keep finding ways to improve, and if your talented enough and good enough, you will lead your team to the Super Bowl. That will happen around here, it will."
by willyoubemycharizard on Nov 28, 2011 9:57 PM CST up reply actions
Texas fans need some one to fire or demote. ...
I will change my legal name to "I. M. Harsin" if Texas scores on a Statue of Liberty or Hook-and-Ladder vs. OU."
by Distributor of the Football on Nov 28, 2011 1:23 PM CST via mobile reply actions
Fire Mack Brown!
Obviously.
Hook 'em! @michaelpelech10 on Twitter
by The Audit Horn on Nov 28, 2011 1:24 PM CST via mobile up reply actions
Since it would be bad form to demote Case this week ...
I say “Fire the Shermalounger!” Btw, I like having a “lucky” QB. If he’s not, he’s skilled. If he is, it’s better.
I will change my legal name to "I. M. Harsin" if Texas scores on a Statue of Liberty or Hook-and-Ladder vs. OU."
by Distributor of the Football on Nov 28, 2011 1:31 PM CST via mobile up reply actions
This debate warms my heart. :)
oh hail the Purple and White
Hey Furnace ...
Texas fans will always do this stuff. Oh, well … So, there is hope for you. Wait, there is hope for you, any way.
I will change my legal name to "I. M. Harsin" if Texas scores on a Statue of Liberty or Hook-and-Ladder vs. OU."
by Distributor of the Football on Nov 28, 2011 3:46 PM CST up reply actions
I just get a kick out of seeing how the other side lives!
You all have such different problems than a school like KSU has. But I sense sentiment is building for the wisdom of redshirting the hot shot (Brewer?) coming in next year. What I don’t understand is why some of these kids aren’t willing to bide their time and be ready to help when they are a junior or senior? That kid who came in the other night for RGIII was READY TO PLAY. And a Texas kid, to boot.
I think the solution is to recruit one 5 star QB and a 3 star who is just happy to be at UT, and will bust his butt for the team, and be ready if called upon. Too many prima donnas at QB, unless the rotation is right, does not appear to be working for you.
oh hail the Purple and White
As an example,
Ron Prince actually recruited Klein, a QB in high school. He redshirted his freshman year. Snyder takes over, and plays him as a wide receiver his r/shirt freshman year. He backs up Coffman (a mediocre talent that “managed” us to the Pinstripe Bowl last year). And now Klein has a hell of a year this year, and may be a Heisman Candidate next year. My prediction is that next year the battle for the B/12 title will come down to KSU and Longhorn.
Snyder’s way of handling players is certainly different.
oh hail the Purple and White
It is a different world ... not necessarily better, but different
I tend to agree with you. I would like to see guys be willing to bide their time. You can still make it to the NFL w/o starting 3-4 years in college, for crying out loud. There’s a lot of folks whispering in their ears, though. You are familiar with G.J. Kinne? The Tulsa QB … Davey O’Brien watch, and all that? He was our third, I think, QB taken a few years ago (three stars, I believe) when Gilbert was the up-and-coming rage. Can’t miss, don’t you know?
Some of this is a result of Texas’s sucess … with all the QB’s making it to the NFL. The recruits think they are next.
I read here … from Bill (Lake Travis), I think … that Mack passed on RG3 (wanted him as athlete) and Andrew Luck (from Houston) for Gilbert. Stop me as I walk toward the ledge …
There are some downsides to UT’s view of itself (and our players view of themselves, as well).
McCoy was a 3-star (Colt). Not sure about Case. I think he was, as well. Still, they all think they are the man and should start at the outset. Don’t know the answer.
I tend to agree with you about the B12 next year. Concerns me that the game is in Manhattan. But I like the way our team is heading … Maybe we will have a QB by then? Ha ha.
I will change my legal name to "I. M. Harsin" if Texas scores on a Statue of Liberty or Hook-and-Ladder vs. OU."
by Distributor of the Football on Nov 28, 2011 7:01 PM CST up reply actions
You all got spoiled
with the run of Applewhite, Simms (I never understood him over Major, though), Young, and Colt. That is an impressive string of effective to great QBs.
oh hail the Purple and White
Definitely Agree
I think we definitely got spoiled, I agree completely… while I expected some dropoff, the sheer incompetency at the QB position now is startling… and it’s really the key missing piece on our team that could prevent us from title runs in the next couple years.
Longer than you think...
BROWN – Major – Simms – VY – Colt. 15 years of mostly amazing QB play.
Don't forget Chance Mock
"Anti-intellectualism has been a constant thread winding its way through our political and cultural life, nurtured by the false notion that democracy means that 'my ignorance is just as good as your knowledge.'"
― Isaac Asimov
by burntorangehorn on Dec 1, 2011 3:28 PM CST up reply actions
Well, I didn't want to get "mocked" because he wasn't "amazing".
I actually liked his ability and grittyness. Tough kid who coulda had a big late career if VY hadn’ta showed up. My best friend is Chance’s cousin … so that’s my brush with (Longhorn) fame. We watched him pretty intently in his time at UT.
McCoy/Davis
McCoy is a caretaker, I can’t put my finger on him being much more than that. I just don’t see him being a playmaker, but I would like him to prove me wrong. He has more of the “it” factor than Ash, but I’ll credit that to being in the program for a year longer as well as having knowledge of the program going in because of his brother. I’m kind of shocked with both of these quarterbacks not stepping into their throws but throwing off their back foot. Are they afraid to take a hit or…???
Re: Davis
The demotion is warranted and hopefully it will motivate him the way it did with Fuller at a&m. Mack can make excuses for him, but he’s had very catchable balls that he’s dropped or not gone for. The guy could be all world, not sure if this is a head thing or what. It seems like his disinterest has grown the better the ’Horns have gotten in the running game.
I'm interested
to see how the QB situation plays out for 2012. Does Ash completely moved forward and trump all. Or does Case retain. It’s all kind of exciting and nerve racking at the same time.
Me: "Hunny, how much is our Wedding budget?"
Fiance`"No, You can't have Craig Way call our wedding.."
Me: "Damnit.."
nerve racking is more like it. I'm excited about the defense
and the running game.
by TheRealDirtyP1 on Nov 28, 2011 1:46 PM CST up reply actions
I wish more fans would take this approach
Instead of having to qualify their support by bashing the other.
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by run Bevo run on Nov 29, 2011 11:52 AM CST up reply actions
Choosing the better of these two QB's
is like picking the prettier between Whoopie Goldberg & Rosie Odonnell. Case is the current best of a bad lot.
Glad Davis & his aligator arms are riding the pine. He may have a hip injury currently but he’s never had any heart. Virtually every pass he catches he stops to avoid contact. I can’t determine if M Goodwin will ever be effective until he learns how to stay on his feet. I guess it’s that long jump finishing position that has him confused. Hard to believe the wr’s are the weakest unit on the team with the possible exception of qb. Before the season the db’s,oline or rb projected as weakest. The class with Davis & White is a bust.
Too soon to tell if Davis is without "heart"...
he might be struggling right now, but I think it’s mental and if it’s mental, it can be addressed.
I don’t think it’s a lack of effort on his part.
by Hippie Killer on Nov 28, 2011 1:43 PM CST up reply actions 1 recs
give me the qb's as a bust over the wr's.
this is kinda a no brainer to me.
QB: Gilbert-gone McCoy-wears #6 but isn’t half of what his brother was Ash-can he even run? His game only opens up when McCoy is successful passing
WR: Shipley-True freshman, truly talented. Davis-true Soph., shined his freshman year, I still have hope for him. Goodwin-fast, but not always a deep threat, still SMH on him; I feel like if he had an accurate QB and he ran good routes, he might be Quan-like. White-we haven’t even seen him.
by TheRealDirtyP1 on Nov 28, 2011 1:51 PM CST up reply actions
Shipley and Goodwin
Arent from the same recruiting class as Davis and White
"Stability is a factor in teams that win the championship. But if you stabilize on a team that's going to end up short of that, then all you're doing is spinning your wheels in the 45-win range."-----Daryl Morey
by fanoflosingteams on Nov 28, 2011 4:11 PM CST up reply actions
If forced whoopie is the easy choice. C'mon now.
by BeeCaveHornFan on Nov 28, 2011 11:01 PM CST via mobile up reply actions
It is not a choice at all.
Whoopie is butt-ugly and is getting worse as the years go by.
Also announced today
“Green” is the official color of grass, and the official descriptor of water is “wet.”
This is hardly a surprise.
I was in the Ash camp since before the season, insofar as one can favor a QB who’s never taken a snap based on nuggets from Barking Carnival. And I remained so, until his poor play — combined with Case’s struggles, of which he had his share — put me in the “none of the above” camp.
I’m still there, but it’s a lonely place. But until someone else arrives on campus that’s demonstrably better, the guy who doesn’t throw picks can be my quarterback. Godspeed, Case McCoy.
Simplicity is always the secret, to a profound truth, to doing things, to writing, to painting. Life is profound in its simplicity. - Charles Bukowski
This is how I feel as well
Really wanted Ash to show us something, but it hasn’t happened and in fact he has been a negative to our success. I don’t see the “it” factor that keeps getting brought up with McCoy, and I don’t think he really brings anything positive to the offense, but to this point he hasn’t been a negative.
At this point I favor starting McCoy and sprinkling in some of the Ash packages that were pretty successful early this year.
Happy for Case...
But we don’t have a QB on the roster right now that has the ability to take us back to the glory days. Here’s to hoping he proves me wrong. He will throw an INT…just get ready. You can’t throw that many bad balls and it not happen eventually.
Mike Davis Benched!
Yes! I was hoping this would happen sooner than later. Maybe it will light a fire under his arse.
I like what I see in onyebugle. Let’s see what he does with more significant pt
by jtdoes on Nov 28, 2011 2:05 PM CST via mobile reply actions
Needing some change there
Don’t think Onyegbule is a significant upgrade in the passing game. Still kinda lanky, not sure if he’s transitioned to the position fully yet. But if this gets Mike D to focus and fight through whatever he dealing with, then giddy up.
Whacky what those 2010 WRs have brought. John Harris coulda broke out, then broke his foot. Chris Jones rolled out. Mike D has been hot and cold, whether it’s injuries or between the ears. Darius White….c’mon man. Too damn talented to not be lighting the world on fire.
Hook 'em! @michaelpelech10 on Twitter
by The Audit Horn on Nov 28, 2011 2:10 PM CST via mobile up reply actions
And Darious White is no longer news.
Sucks. He was a stud coming out of high school.
by BeeCaveHornFan on Nov 28, 2011 11:02 PM CST via mobile up reply actions
Fine with me… Let’s roll with the other guy for a while. They’ll both have a nice couple of weeks for bowl practice and an entire offseason in the weight room. Neither has nearly earned the starting spot, so we can resume next spring. Maybe Case can eat some steaks too. Sweet mercy he looks his age.
So who is gonna start next year???
Will it be a new freshman? McCoy? will we even try to get at JUCO transfer?
Has to be Ash or McCoy
Don’t know of any suitable JUCOS QBs ready to go next year. Maybe Ryan Katz from Oregon State transfers in for one year?
I’d rather RS Brewer. Kid is small, and coming from AZ. Think he’ll be special, but in time. Also doubt Overstreet is a full time solution.
Hook 'em! @michaelpelech10 on Twitter
by The Audit Horn on Nov 28, 2011 2:26 PM CST via mobile up reply actions
Ryan Katz
Is the only QB available for a Russell Wilson type transfer. Saw him once, he was okay.
Hook 'em! @michaelpelech10 on Twitter
by The Audit Horn on Nov 28, 2011 3:54 PM CST via mobile up reply actions
If brewer starts...
…that says to me that harsin is short term. Hoping someone in the spring really shines.
by BeeCaveHornFan on Nov 28, 2011 11:10 PM CST via mobile up reply actions
Case on Twitter:
“My boy [Mason Walters] owes me dinner. Where should he take me?”
Lol! That cracks me up. I can see why the team (if its actually true) likes him. If he can keep the team loose and maximize everything around him, keep it up. Just don’t neglect being an actual QB in the process.
Hook 'em! @michaelpelech10 on Twitter
by The Audit Horn on Nov 28, 2011 2:46 PM CST via mobile reply actions
Forgot to mention
That is likely because of the outburst after the delay of game penalty.
Hook 'em! @michaelpelech10 on Twitter
by The Audit Horn on Nov 28, 2011 2:51 PM CST via mobile up reply actions
not sure
the team loves him. There have been plenty of rumors regarding his attitude. One of the main reasons I hoped Ash would perform. I think you are seeing a team that learned from last yr. Divisions in the locker room cost them a lot and they are not about to repeat those errors
Irby called out Ash (in the media) and said the team needed a change, if I recall ...
That being said, can you imagine a lineman lighting up Colt or Vince? Also, I think the age of Ash is a problem this year … 18 yo.
Let us remember that the real problem with our QB situation is the missed eval on Gilbert. Neither of these guys were supposed to carry the load as a starter before 2013.
So, we have to hope and pray they get it together between now and next September. I am more of an optimist than most here, esp. when Harsin gets the extra time with the bowl practices and then spring ball. Focus of the work (discussions of opening up the QB position aside) going into this year was for GG to be the QB.
So, Mack blew it with GG. But even the great ones whiff now and again (what about our receivers, too?). But our last three starting QB’s played in the NFL. So, the bar is pretty high.
I will change my legal name to "I. M. Harsin" if Texas scores on a Statue of Liberty or Hook-and-Ladder vs. OU."
by Distributor of the Football on Nov 28, 2011 3:55 PM CST up reply actions
Gilbert may be the center of the problem
But we should at least have had GJ Kinne and/Connor Wood still on the roster. Kinne could have become a 2 year starter.
Hook 'em! @michaelpelech10 on Twitter
by The Audit Horn on Nov 28, 2011 4:02 PM CST via mobile up reply actions
Wr
i think we have to many athletes at WR, not enough natural pass catchers. That error is being rectified. Shipley was the first. Cayleb is another. These are guys that can help less than perfect QBs. I would use the possession word, but that may upset Cayleb and Shipley
Mike Davis was said to be an excellent technical WR when he was recruited
Supposed to have great hands and route running similar to Jordan Shipley.
For the time being, Case best fits what Texas is trying to do.
We have a suffocating defense, and an offense geared to play smashmouth football. Excellent play at the QB position would obviously be a bonus, but it just isn’t on this roster today. For now, we need the guy that can be accurate at times on third and manageable, and, most importantly, can minimize turnovers.
It was Case’s ability to manage turnovers is what kept Texas in a position to win that football game on Thursday. This year, and even 2012, this team has the ability to be very competitive with only a game manager at QB, and it would appear that Case is best suited to fill that role.
+ 1......the coaches have made Case "The QB"....no more co-qbs, Call it luck or it or whatever, but he has put the team in position to win, and has not thrown game losing interceptions...Case Closed, for now
I'd kill for a Nobel Peace Prize
by MeatchickenHorn on Nov 28, 2011 7:26 PM CST up reply actions
is what it is
His game was basically the same game Ash had vs Mizzu. That pick was right before half and a bomb. Outside of that both were ineffective and had one nice scramble. No need to explain it. Case is the defaulr starter. Without CBs playing out of their minds we lose. Baylor is much worse defensively, so Case should look better. I would expect around 200 yds passing
by codaxx on Nov 28, 2011 7:34 PM CST via mobile up reply actions
I'll admit that after Thursday
I’m moving ever so gradually toward this line of thinking.
With as bad as these two qb’s are, we really can’t ask for much more than a bus driver at this point, a Jim McMahon or a Craig Krenzel if you will – you know, someone to look good handing the ball to the tailback and then reap a lot of undeserved credit after the game.
Case truly should have a mountain of turnovers at this point. But he doesn’t. It can’t be explained rationally, but then neither can a hot streak at the craps table. In either event, I suppose you have to ride the streak through to its end.
by BrooklynHorn on Nov 28, 2011 11:27 PM CST up reply actions
+1
It can’t be explained rationally, but then neither can a hot streak at the craps table. In either event, I suppose you have to ride the streak through to its end.
Good analogy.
Except BH forgot to add, "Tell everyone, I told you so..." afterwards.
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by run Bevo run on Nov 29, 2011 11:55 AM CST up reply actions
So it
Takes case McCoy sending aggie out in misery for you people to believe in him? It’s not always the prettiest but McCoy is the man. We’ll win the big 12 next year with him at qb next yr, and be in the national picture in ‘13…. Hate all you want but the kid wins… Ashs’ 1 td to 8 int ratio is hilarious… Sfa, Sam Houston state, or Lamar await him lol….
by drobe86 on Nov 28, 2011 7:40 PM CST via mobile reply actions
OK
We won because our defense returned a TD, because Quandre basically returned a punt for a TD, and because we got bailed out on a questionable call. Not to mention that the defense played lights out.
This wasn’t Case’s win, although I credit him for putting together one final drive (again, aided by the penalty).
Sighing again
Look, no QB wins a game. There’s never been a win that’s been any QB’s win. It takes a team every time. We all should know that. What’s your point?
"Anti-intellectualism has been a constant thread winding its way through our political and cultural life, nurtured by the false notion that democracy means that 'my ignorance is just as good as your knowledge.'"
― Isaac Asimov
by burntorangehorn on Nov 28, 2011 11:47 PM CST up reply actions
LonghornEm
Does anyone know what has happened to her? I think I need a Notre Dame fix.
She got married or was getting married this fall.
My guess is she is either honeymooning or up to her eyes in wedding chaos. I’ve missed her input this fall too.
If a man is alone in the woods and he speaks, if no one hears him,,is he still wrong?
Let's see if I can help
Notre Dame is my favorite team
Baylor is my favorite team
Texas is my favorite team
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by run Bevo run on Nov 29, 2011 11:58 AM CST up reply actions
Good catch
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by run Bevo run on Nov 29, 2011 12:44 PM CST up reply actions
The guy can't get a break
And any positivity about what he brings to the table is apparently achieved only when the discussion devolves.
Sigh.
"Anti-intellectualism has been a constant thread winding its way through our political and cultural life, nurtured by the false notion that democracy means that 'my ignorance is just as good as your knowledge.'"
― Isaac Asimov
by burntorangehorn on Nov 28, 2011 9:25 PM CST reply actions
Intangibles: Most Overused, Least Understood Word
Case McCoy has intangibles. Garret Gilbert and David Ash seemingly do/did not. It’s the word that’s used to describe the part of an athlete’s game that statistics can’t quantify and package neatly when trying to draw comparisons to other athletes. It’s the characteristic that doesn’t show up on the practice field, only revealing itself in battle when the ability to perform under pressure in an environment that’s not controlled is on display. It’s the ability to make order out of chaos that few individuals possess. It is the rarest of attributes that an observer trying to make sense of what they’ve seen with their own eyes resorts to using to describe what hard, scientific data cannot.
All of human life is populated with individuals who possess it, but only in sport is it on display for our entertainment value to analyze and discern who has “it” and who doesn’t. And it’s often what separates highly successful people from otherwise equally or even more skilled people. Innovative corporate titans like Steve Jobs, generals like Patton, politicians like Abraham Lincoln. Athletes like Doug Flutie. Even in the hard sciences men like Albert Einstein, who at one time was called dumb, experience success because of “intangibles”.
Today’s discussion is about Case McCoy, an otherwise underwhelming quarterback who found success in College Station and to a lesser degree earlier this season when his statistical performance and mechanical delivery would suggest otherwise. And living in Denver I’d be remiss to not mention Tim Tebow, who’s physical abilities are also suspect at the professional level of the sport. I see many parallels between the Texas Longhorns and Denver Broncos this season as defenses rescue struggling offenses.
But intangibles are all about the ability to inspire and lead others by holding oneself accountable to a higher expectation in the face of adversity and genuinely believing in those around you to also perform well when faced with challenges. And intangibles are hard to quantify because they often aren’t reflected in the possessor’s statistics, but rather the statistics of everyone around them.
In football, a QB with intangibles is even able to inspire and lead teammates who play on the other side of the ball. With respect to Tim Tebow, in the words of Denver starting cornerback Champ Bailey:
“Tebow is a special player. I have never seen a player quite like him in my whole career! I’m gonna play all out for the guy! I know he will be out there giving 110% every play every week, so I’m gonna give 120%!”
When the leader of a team has intangibles every position player raises his or her game, if only because they don’t want to be embarrassed because they let the leader and everyone else down. Think about when you’ve been inspired in life by a teacher or authority figure believing in you when you’ve had self-doubts – and you didn’t want to let that person down!
Texas’ defense surely has developed under Coach Diaz and has discovered an immensely talented young secondary that’s improving week by week. And not to take away from their improvement and skill, but it’s only heightened by a belief that the leader of the offense will deliver in the clutch if they do their jobs by keeping a game close. And the mentality of defenders improves beyond description when they know the guy running the offense isn’t going to make their lives harder by making costly mistakes time after time. We saw that dynamic play out last season, as a highly rated defense broke down mentally after watching their QB make costly mistake after costly mistake. No doubt GG’s struggles and mistakes contributed to the divide between the offensive and defensive units.
Just as in Denver, Texas now has a QB who defies expectations because he doesn’t fit in the mold of starter by the numbers or the mechanics. But both deliver in the clutch because the get the men around them to raise their level of play and be the best they can be, leaving everything on the field in order to win. They inspire their teammates to put their individual egos aside in order to do the one thing that unifies them all: win. They’re special men.
The jury is still out on both McCoy and Tebow for that matter. Because they haven’t developed along traditional lines and don’t overwhelm with flashy numbers or good looking mechanics it’s hard to imagine them continuing to succeed without rapid improvement in skill at their position. And time will tell, since both seem to live on the edge where a fall from grace could be as rapid and insurmountable as their ascendancy. But until that happens as long as their teammates believe in them and give their all we’re treated to the experience of watching a TEAM perform, with everyone pulling together to become more than the sum of their parts. In sport as the level of competition rises, i.e. from high school to college to the pros, the difference in inherent talent shrinks. The star in prep ball can find him/herself closer to average in college, as will a star in college often find him/herself closer to average in the pros. By the time you reach the top level of competition you find the difference in physical gifts negligible relative to the general population. That’s where the difference in mentality begins to show itself more and more.
The gray stuff between the ears distinguishes stars from interchangeable roster spots. And it’s where intangibles make the difference between winning and losing. I’ll take a winner over a loser with gaudy numbers any day of the week when they’re playing for my team.
intangible
is a word generally used when people try to assign unwarranted value to a player. Tebow is a great example. He is 5-1. Prior to Tebow, Denver was 1-3. It must be Tebow and intangibles.
first 4 games: averaged 21.25 pts
next 6 games: 19.33
wait a minute
first 4 games: averaged giving up 29.25 pts
next 6 games: averaged giving up 20 pts..
lets use the median results:
first 4 games: 23.5 pts scored and 25.5 were allowed
next 6 games: 17 pts scored and 14 were allowed
hmmmm. It certainly isnt the the defense stepping up.
You Obviously Didn't Read Bailey's Quote
Team morale and psychology is impacted on both sides of the ball by an inspiring QB. There are so many facets to team sport that the myopic lens many view and assess performance by never will understand.
by RMHorn on Nov 29, 2011 10:46 AM CST via mobile up reply actions
Broncos Were Actually 1-4 Under Orton
Recalculating? You might want to protect yourself from Mayhem, like me!
by RMHorn on Nov 30, 2011 2:17 AM CST via mobile up reply actions
Wow
I may not agree with everything you just said (although most of it) but this is really well written. Love how BON is packed with well spoken sports enthusiasts.
by BeeCaveHornFan on Nov 29, 2011 7:35 PM CST via mobile up reply actions
I wonder...
…if Washington Redskins fans argue as passionately about whether Rex Grossman or John Beck should be the starting quarterback.
FIRE ROBERT CARNOCHAN!
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