One Year Later, DJ Monroe Still Not Free
by Wescott Eberts (GoBR) on Dec 20, 2011 1:34 PM CST
in Texas Longhorns Football
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Poor Donald Junior. After two seasons in the Greg Davis doghouse, there seemed little question that new co-offensive coordinator Bryan Harsin would free junior running back DJ Monroe, perhaps the poster boy for poor utilization by the Texas staff in 2010. Particularly galling were the excuses that Davis would trot out for why he couldn't put the ball in the hands of a player who looked for all the world like a big play waiting to happen every time he touched it.
Unfortunately, the chorus of complaints about Monroe receiving only occasional carries never subsided under Harsin, as Monroe continued to play only a small role in the offense despite consistent production in line with the tantalizing production provided in flashes in 2009 and 2010. Most disturbingly, Harsin started to make his own excuses about why he couldn't get Monroe the ball, some which sounding suspiciously like those used by Davis.
Here's the most recent edition, from the Monday press availability:
Some of the schemes that we have utilized him in, we continue to do that. We just have to do more of that. You look at what he has done when you get a chance to go back and look at some of your stats at the end of they year before you go into the bowl game, and he is a guy [where we want to] get the ball in his hands. It is about finding creative ways to try and do that and allow them the opportunity to get in space. That is where he does well. It's just how we can do that and get him the ball and those ways, whether it's throwing it or handing the ball off to him. We got to figure it out.
Following the injury to Fozzy Whittaker against Missouri, it became clear that Monroe needed a threat at the running back position in the Wildcat and wasn't particularly effective as a traditional running back either, gaining only 44 yards on 13 carries -- 3.4 yards per carry, about half of his career mark.
Then, just when it looked like Monroe's ability to pick up those seven yards per carry might be in serious jeopardy, the diminutive speedster broke off a 51-yard run against Baylor that reminded everyone of just how close he is to breaking a big run on any given play.
Those nine touches against Baylor represented a season high for Monroe, who responded with his longest run since the C sweep against Oklahoma that resulted in a 60-yard touchdown run, one of only two rushing plays for the Longhorns in 2010 that went for more than 40 yards.
Given that feature back Malcolm Brown has a long run of only 27 yards this season, it's seems more than mildly ridiculous that there's still a need for this conversation, especially since there are the systematic signs that Bryan Harsin just doesn't get it, as there were with Davis. Add on the fact that the offense as a whole has struggled to create explosive plays and the lack of touches for Monroe becomes even more ludicrous.
Time is running out on the season to figure out ways to get Monroe the football. Texas fans can only hope that the next few days are fruitful in that search.
Again, and for what hopefully is the last time, Bryan Harsin, free DJ Monroe.
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THIS.
Also, Shipley was getting some of those touches early in the year, too. I’d love to see DJ get 12 touches a game. If nothing else, I feel like Harsin has used him a lot more this year, if only as a decoy at times. But I felt since early on that I wanted to see Fozzy hand it off to him more from the wildcat. The only thing is that Fozzy was doing a hell of a job keeping and scoring in the red zone!
Next Year
I keep feeling like we want to get every back 15 touches a game… Gray, Bergeron, Brown, and even Monroe will likely be so effective, I don’t know where all of these are going to come from!
Needless to say, Harsin has a ton of options at RB / Monroe. Should be interesting to see how he puts them all together. Should allow everyone to stay pretty fresh throughout the year and not take too much wear and tear
Banged Macks daughter or niece?
That’s all I can come up with… there is absolutely NO excuse for this kid not getting a MINIMUM 12 touches for UT. He is lightning in a bottle that just seems to stay in the bottle. It’s ridiculous really… 1st career game for UT he posted 9 carries for 64 yards…hardly touched the ball the rest of the year until the NCG against Bama when he led the offense with 11 yards per carry. I figure the only reason he carried the ball then is because braind-dead davis wanted to win that game… sad that he had 1 carry the previous 6 games in 2009.
So, I have come to the conclusion that he was hangin with Cleve Bryant or banging some high ranking officials daughter on the UT campus.
UT has completely pissed away this kids skills and cost us from having any type of an offensive weapon whatsoever… pathetic.
There has to be a reason that Davis and Harsin haven't utilized him more
Maybe he just can’t block? He looks like crap in practices? He can’t remember the plays?
There has to be something we don’t know about.
Proud of your offense? Manny badger don't give a shit!
I'll defend Harsin (not GD) on this one . . .
Monroe is a one-trick pony. And his lone trick is tightly defined as “can run real fast if you can get the ball in his hands. Safely.”
The safely is a key part of the equation. Obviously, DJ isn’t much of an inside threat. He should be playing WR, but he can’t catch. We don’t toss or pitch the ball to him. At his size, you can’t put him in a position where he’ll get blasted. His safety and ball security, you know.
And when Monroe is on the field, everybody knows he won’t be a receiver, won’t be a blocker, won’t be an inside runner. So there’s not much trickeration an OC can employ. Evidently, he’s also not a KR threat anymore, although he used to be.
Bottom line: How can he be useful? Or, would putting another player in his place be MORE useful. Obviously, the staff feels that way.
Just using one example — there has to be a reason why Monroe on a fake jet sweep, then left unattended when the flow of the play and the ball carrier go the other way, isn’t used as a receiver. He’d be alone, the throw and catch would not be difficult. Just sayin’.
by edsp on Dec 20, 2011 2:12 PM CST reply actions 3 recs
This. A thousand times this.
Monroe’s lack of football skills, if not desire, seems to define “track guy playing football”. He reminds me of slightly more skilled Trindon Holliday.
proud to swim home
by learned hand on Dec 20, 2011 2:19 PM CST up reply actions
He needs better hands. Right now the only real way to get him the ball is on the sweep. He doesn’t do a good job taking it from the TB postion. We were able to get 2 decent screens out of him this year. His goal for next year should be developing reliable hands. We could give him 15 touches per game if he could field punts and catch screens. With his speed and shiftyness he could probably also earn a paycheck. Trindon made a roster, i have no doubt DJ could too if he could catch better.
Is he shifty?
I’ve watched him as much as anybody and to me he seems really stiff. I rarely remember him making someone miss. He can outrun people, but as far as wiggle or moves, I don’t see them.
Cut!
No. No. No, man.
You're making me fall asleep,
to death bro! -Ghandi
by TexasGarcia37 on Dec 20, 2011 2:49 PM CST up reply actions
Well,
I don’t think we actually know if he can catch a pass in a real game, because I can’t think of a time in all his years here where they have thrown the ball to him.
Monroe has six receptions this season.
I don’t recall him dropping any passes, though it has been a problem in the past. I suspect that he still has issues since the coaches haven’t really tried to get him the ball at all downfield on any wheel routes, which would seem like a logical play off the jet sweep.
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Burnt Orange Nation
by Wescott Eberts (GoBR) on Dec 20, 2011 4:39 PM CST up reply actions
Maybe John Capel?
"Anti-intellectualism has been a constant thread winding its way through our political and cultural life, nurtured by the false notion that democracy means that 'my ignorance is just as good as your knowledge.'"
― Isaac Asimov
by burntorangehorn on Dec 20, 2011 7:02 PM CST up reply actions
(well, maybe a poor man's John Capel?)
"Anti-intellectualism has been a constant thread winding its way through our political and cultural life, nurtured by the false notion that democracy means that 'my ignorance is just as good as your knowledge.'"
― Isaac Asimov
by burntorangehorn on Dec 20, 2011 7:05 PM CST up reply actions
Holliday is
playing in the NFL and is only 5’5 155 lbs… give Monroe the same amount of attempts that Holliday had and see how he fares
Holliday was drafted by the Texans
because he is the fastest man in the NFL and Jones wasn’t cutting it as a KR specialist. Well, neither did Holliday, and he currently is not playing in the NFL.
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27-25 Live with it forever.
especially since there are the systematic signs that Bryan Harsin just doesn’t get it, as there were with Davis.
I’m not a big fan of GD, but it is his third year, and 2 different coaches don’t trust giving him the ball 15+ times a game. I’m leaning towards the position that it is the fans that don’t get it.
He had 2 games this season with 7 and 8 touches (Mizzou and BU). If you take out his one long run against BU, he averaged 3.7 ypc. You can’t keep feeding him the ball if you aren’t getting first downs.
As far as him being a home run threat, he had twice as many carries this year (47 vs 23) and he only managed 3 plays over 20 yards (2 last year).
by UT_BKC on Dec 20, 2011 2:32 PM CST up reply actions 1 recs
"If you take out" Barry Sanders'
long runs what would he have done. The guy had more negative yard carries than anyone I can remember.
And yea… “the fans don’t get it”, yet we ended the season in 2010 without even making a bowl game at 5-7, and now we are still a team with no obvious playmakers on the roster. If you can pick one player that has been a playmaker for UT the last 3 years please tell me who it would be.
Finally, he had 4 “plays” over 20 yards this year… and for the record… the only other RB that had that many 20+ yard plays was Fozzy and he had 30+ more attempts.
Bergeron and Brown only had 3 plays over 20 yards all year… and last time I checked, RB’s mostly need to get into some sort of rythm when carrying the ball.
Again, no excuses… coaching is dropping the ball yet again with DJ Monroe.
"coaching is dropping the ball yet again with DJ Monroe"
Harsin and Davis are extremely different coaches, yet they both roughly agree on the amount of carries Monroe should get. That should tell you something.
undefeated in Sun Belt play
It does
it tells me that Monroe has pissed off some high ranking officials in the UT system
Or it could mean that he's not a very good football player
"Anti-intellectualism has been a constant thread winding its way through our political and cultural life, nurtured by the false notion that democracy means that 'my ignorance is just as good as your knowledge.'"
― Isaac Asimov
by burntorangehorn on Dec 21, 2011 8:33 AM CST up reply actions
really?
it could mean he’s not a very good football player
5-star recruit. blazing speed. Tx. HS 100-meter champion in 2006. Offensive MVP of the Texas High School Coaches Association All-Star game. 47 rushes this year with 6.9 YPC. 6 catches this year with 9.8 ypc. Yeah. Probably just not very good.
See ya later, alligator and sheep-mater.
by Paleface Horn on Dec 21, 2011 8:53 AM CST up reply actions
Rivals had him as a 4 star recruit.
Although that was as a cornerback…
Maybe it is Akina that is dropping the ball.
How about Garrett Gilbert, the five-star QB and Gatorade Player of the Year?
Forget the rankings when evaluating a guy who’s been playing for several seasons without much success.
"Anti-intellectualism has been a constant thread winding its way through our political and cultural life, nurtured by the false notion that democracy means that 'my ignorance is just as good as your knowledge.'"
― Isaac Asimov
by burntorangehorn on Dec 21, 2011 9:04 PM CST up reply actions
Difference
is… Gilbert got a chance, and then some… Monroe has not. He just kicks ass with what little chances he gets.
You're joking, right?
The coaches all seem to agree that the guy’s not good enough for anything but a specific and limited set of plays. This whole thing about his being elite and just held out for some inane reason is a farce.
"Anti-intellectualism has been a constant thread winding its way through our political and cultural life, nurtured by the false notion that democracy means that 'my ignorance is just as good as your knowledge.'"
― Isaac Asimov
by burntorangehorn on Dec 21, 2011 10:15 PM CST up reply actions
Then why
does every Longhorns message board ask the same question? Hook’em, Barking Carnival, and even Burnt Orange Nation… also, the press. If that’s the case then why is Harsin answering questions about it still?
Clearly the guy has talent… deny it all you want, but the subject is valid. I like long TD runs… the only downside is the defense doesn’t get to rest as long.
Kids a playmaker and he has proved it with limited touches… that is a fact. 3 years straight now… no other UT RB has been as explosive as DJ
Talent doesn't amount to anything if it doesn't do what it has to do
Greg Davis himself said that Monroe didn’t know the playbook. Monroe might just be lazy, or it could be something else.
As for your assertion that every message board is asking the same question, that’s probably because a lot of the same people are on all those message boards, and a lot of it filters from one to the other. Take a look at BON, and you’ll see a lot of fanshots that are really nothing but links to articles over on BC. Groupthink happens.
"Anti-intellectualism has been a constant thread winding its way through our political and cultural life, nurtured by the false notion that democracy means that 'my ignorance is just as good as your knowledge.'"
― Isaac Asimov
by burntorangehorn on Dec 22, 2011 12:13 AM CST up reply actions
he's a great talent and certainly has big play potential
but only in a certain situations. we saw during the Mizzou game that he just doesnt have the ability to be an every down back. he is a situational player.
he should get a great deal more carries on sweeps and the like during this Bowl game though considering how Cal has struggled to defend the perimeter
In The Morning To You
I have to believe the coaches are not blind and stupid about football
The coaches primary evaluations occur at the practice field. He must be doing something or not doing something the coaches don’t like.
Just running with the ball is not enough – can he hold on to it? Can he block? Is he not smart enough to remember the plays? Does he fall down the second he sees an opposing jersey? If he un-coachable and a smart ass?
What happens behind the scenes has to be the problem.
Proud of your offense? Manny badger don't give a shit!
That would make sense
if Harsin didn’t continually come out and say he needs to get DJ the ball more.
OK, I'm all ears
What is ya’ll’s opinions as to why he is not playing?
Proud of your offense? Manny badger don't give a shit!
Conspiracy!
"Anti-intellectualism has been a constant thread winding its way through our political and cultural life, nurtured by the false notion that democracy means that 'my ignorance is just as good as your knowledge.'"
― Isaac Asimov
by burntorangehorn on Dec 23, 2011 12:42 PM CST up reply actions
Yeah......both Harsin and Davis....
….. worked for Mack Brown and D.J. isn’t built anything like Natrone Means.
--- All roads to the Big-XII Championship lead through OU/RRS. It's not just another game! We're all about championships here. ---
I agree with everything you said
but one of my biggest pet peeves is when someone says “Just sayin.” Jesus, are you a teenage girl?
You can't
coach speed… since when is “can run real fast” in football a negative attribute?
He should ALWAYS be playing close to the QB as an outlet if he can’t catch the deep ball… which I have seen no signs of him dropping passes at all. He has a fumble or two, but which RB doesn’t…
D.J. is a homerun threat on every play that he gets the football… if you keep feeding him the rock, he will eventually break a long one for 6.
Following your example… well, if the coaching staff has proven week after week that they will not be targeting a player then why focus any attention on that player.
Finally, where would UT be against BYU if not for Monroe? He accounted for 1 of our TD’s and had a nice 26 yard catch that was killed by a GG interception.
Bottom line is, the kid can ball, but he is in some sort of doghouse that keeps UT from getting him the ball.
Speed over-rated
Look at Goodwin. I have seen DJ in space and he does not make a lot of guys miss. Give him a lane and he is gone. That is different from a playmaker. Playmaker takes a random 5 yd play and goes 40 yds. Football speed and trach speed are different animals. Quickness and ability to change direction are what makes great football players not simple straight line speed.
Over-rated how?
All he does is run by defenders and force them to miss in the open field. Speed kills, and D.J. Monroe has averaged over 7 yards per carry during his career. Again, I would ask the question again…. who has shown more playmaking abilities from our offense during Monroe’s tenure?
See goodwin
Renaldo Jeremiah. Jett. Most great wrs never broke 4.4. It is about body control. Who leads the NFL in rushing yards? A guy that ran a 4.6-4.7. My pt is DJ does not make people frequently. He plays slower than his times would indicate. Ask yourself why he was taken off returns. I like the guy. I think he has talent and ability, but he has a limited role. I watched every game this yr and you can count on one had the players he made miss. If you get perfect blocking he is gone, but he is not making a 5 yd gain into 35.
Nehemiah
It's not that we think we're better than everyone else. It's that we know we are.
by luvcollegefootball on Dec 21, 2011 6:55 AM CST up reply actions
Well,
Renaldo Nehemiah and James Jett both had respectable NFL careers, so I don’t know why that is such a bad comparison.
And the only reason I can point to why Monroe was taken off of special teams is to keep him from getting hurt. We were down to our 3rd string RB at that point and it didn’t make sense to have another one returning kicks and risking additional injury.
Refer back to the Oklahoma game when Monroe busted a KR the distance, but had it called back due to a questionable call. He certainly wasn’t pulled because he couldn’t produce if that’s what you are emplying.
And, relative to him not being able to “make people miss”? Well, get your hand ready to count as he makes people miss again, and again… either with speed or change of direction. This link only includes 1/2 the seasons big plays too…
Really no way to justify this guy not touching the ball 10-12 times a game…he has been the ONLY offensive playmaker for the past 2 years. Period
Period?
No sense mentioning Whitaker, Brown, Bergeron, Davis, Goodwin, or Shipley, huh?
"Anti-intellectualism has been a constant thread winding its way through our political and cultural life, nurtured by the false notion that democracy means that 'my ignorance is just as good as your knowledge.'"
― Isaac Asimov
by burntorangehorn on Dec 21, 2011 8:35 AM CST up reply actions
Well,
Whittaker was having a fantastic year this year until he was injured again.
Brown isn’t explosive like Monroe, and with 3 times the touches couldn’t muster the type of explosive plays that DJ did. Plus, he was hurt a good bit of time as well.
Bergeron, same thing… less 20+ yard plays than Monroe, and injury prone as well.
And, Davis, Goodwin, and Shipley? I should have specified RB position… not all over the offense. Although Shipley was injured a lot and Davis I wouldn’t refer to as a solid “playmaker”… give DJ 1/2 the opportunities as Goodwin and Davis and see what he would do with them.
just a thought
what would he average with 20 carries? Do you think his ypc is higher because he is used in a particular role that suits him and is generally in mis-direction? He is 5-9 and 165 lbs. Do you really think he can carry it 15-20 times and survive a season? Diggs replaced him, because he is better. Makes no sense to say you are willing to risk a starting CB to injury to protect a guy that gets 5 touches.
I would never
give him 20 carries in a game. I agree – he doesn’t have the build for an every down back. 10-12 are the max IMO.
Diggs better at returning kicks? Really? Based on what exactly? In 2011 Monroe average 20 yards per return, Diggs averaged 19… How many KR’s does Diggs have for TD’s thus far? Zero? Monroe? 2, and one returned against OU this year that shouldn’t have been called back. Yea, Diggs is “better” for sure. The stats prove that point.
And, if Monroe were to get injured late in the year we would have been down to just Hills and Johnson with no explosive RB’s available at all. We could easily move Phillips in to take over for Diggs… or Turner, Scott, White, etc…
We had NO depth at RB and plenty at CB is the point.
The difference between Phillips and Diggs is very minimal.
you dont
remember Diggs getting one called back. how convenient. I see how this goes. You are trying to say a less than a yd difference in returns is proof positive on DJ’s 9 returns?
you claim of RB injuries vs Cb depth is beyond me. We are so deep at CB that we are starting a true frosh and soph. Not too mention Diggs was returning kicks since the ISU game. Clearly, you feel passionate about this, so I will let you go. Just like you let reality go
Refresher
Please refresh my memory on the KR for a TD that Diggs had. I can’t find any story about it, or video. What game was it in? I know he was a fantastic PR, but didn’t see the TD returned for a TD. Point me in the right direction.
Then explain why DJ Monroe averages 25 yards per KR and has 2 legit TD returns and why Diggs has ZERO.
And, REALLY? Our entire CB depth is either true freshmen or Sophomores? Can you name 1 Junior or Senior on the entire roster that plays CB??
You do understand that we ONLY had two players on our entire ROSTER that were RB’s? Jeremy Hills (3rd string) and Chris Johnson (starting FB)… nobody else at all.
White started some at CB last year, Phillips actually started some games this year, and Turner and Scott were also true freshmen.
we mean 20 yds
9 returns for 180 yds. And you missed the pt. Diggs and Fozzy returned kicks in ISU game. Please tell me what RB was injured in that game. You are completely delusional and just making up nonsense at this pt.
No,
DJ Monroe averages 25 yards per KR over his career, and has 2 TD’s… with another one called back.
Even then, at the end of the year he was returning kickoffs while Diggs was not.
He has already proven that he is a better KR than Diggs… there is no justification for him not being the KR all year. Just like there is no justification for him not getting the ball 10-12 times a game.
little unfair
to compare Djs stats from last yr to Digg’s stats this yr. Doesnt it make more sense to compare them with like blockers?
Again,
“Like blockers”? Sure, DJ ran one kickoff back 90 yards that was overturned against OU because of a questionable call. You say that Diggs did as well, but won’t tell me when, even though I ask.
Next, with LIKE blockers DJ Monroe had the 2 longest returns between the 2 of them. Monroe had a 36 yard return and a 29 yard return.
Diggs equaled Monroe with two 29 yard returns…
And, again, DJ was given the KR job back for the final game over Diggs.
interesting
so DJ has averaged about 20 yds the last 2 yrs on returns and no TDs. Averaged 33 and had 2 TDs on a team that went to the NC game. Cherry pick much?
What's "interesting"
is Diggs didn’t average 20 yards per KR at all, and has 0 KR’s for a TD.
Curious… how is Diggs a better KR than Monroe again?
We can only compare them based on what they have actually done on the playing field.
19.06 v 20.. pretty much the same
especially given the difference in returns
Still can't
think of that TD that they called back on Diggs? Let me know when you can…
You would think that with the 10+ more returns that Diggs was given, that he would have the longest KR of the season between the two of them… or the 2nd longest?
And 1 yard is not “pretty much the same”
at this point id rather have a healthy Brown or Bergeron over DJ Monroe
if he had been injured during the Mizzou and BAylor games but we had a fully healthy Brown and Bergeron would any of us had said “dammit DJ’s out we are so totally F’ed?”
In The Morning To You
to be honest
watched the entire highlight video, and besides flat out running pursuit he only made 3 people miss.
I agree
I’ve watched DJ as much as the next guy. Dude doesn’t make guys miss. His one trick is to just try and outrun guys to the corner or outrun their angle. DJ has no "moves’. Somone go back and chart all the guys he jukes in a game and I can bet you it won’t get higher then a couple.
Cut!
No. No. No, man.
You're making me fall asleep,
to death bro! -Ghandi
by TexasGarcia37 on Dec 21, 2011 10:33 AM CST up reply actions
The axiom that speed can't be coached is a big myth
There’s a reason there are speed coaches, speed drills, sprint workouts, etc.
If speed can’t be coached, then USA Track and Field need not employ coaches anymore.
"Anti-intellectualism has been a constant thread winding its way through our political and cultural life, nurtured by the false notion that democracy means that 'my ignorance is just as good as your knowledge.'"
― Isaac Asimov
by burntorangehorn on Dec 20, 2011 11:39 PM CST up reply actions
You're right
Case McCoy could be a world class sprinter with the USA Track and Field coaches that are available.
speed and coaching
I think it is pretty clear that:
1) no matter how much coaching, I will never run like Carl Lewis, and
2) with proper coaching and training, it is possible to become faster.
There is a lot of technique involved in running really fast. Also, some pretty specialized training. But you do have to start with the right raw materials.
Now, if we take a guy who runs a 4.6 s 40, can he be coached to a 4.4? Probably. If you run a 5.2 though, no amount of training is probably going to get you to a 4.5.
Most of the time, when we are talking about comparing speed of football players, we assign a pretty large significance to 0.2 s of a 40 time. I am of the opinion that this 0.2 seconds can’t possibly matter very often in actual game situations, but that is how we do it. And I suspect the right coaching can trim this much off of a 40 time.
I am on Twitter @jeffchaley
Burnt Orange Nation
nice straw man you have there
"Anti-intellectualism has been a constant thread winding its way through our political and cultural life, nurtured by the false notion that democracy means that 'my ignorance is just as good as your knowledge.'"
― Isaac Asimov
by burntorangehorn on Dec 21, 2011 4:30 PM CST up reply actions
disagree
Speed coaches maximize speed and your control of it. They do NOT create it. Check out the sport science episode on Usain Bolt for a great explanation of they physiology of speed.
Because being a Texas fan means never having to say you're sorry.
by dukeoforange on Dec 21, 2011 11:13 AM CST up reply actions
As a practical matter...
how much difference is there between “maximizing speed and your control of it” and “creating speed?” In essence, if I learn and train to maximize speed, will I not run faster than I might otherwise run?
I am on Twitter @jeffchaley
Burnt Orange Nation
I would say
that maxing speed and cotrolling speed are directly related. I nitpick the “creating” part of creating speed. If you cannot control your speed than you are running slower than you could otherwise but the ability is still there anatomically. So I would argue speed coaches do not create speed, they recapture what would otherwise be lost without proper technique (not unlike what strength coaches do actually).
Because being a Texas fan means never having to say you're sorry.
by dukeoforange on Dec 21, 2011 11:20 AM CST up reply actions
speed coaches
maximize your potential speed. They can not make a 5 foot man with 24 inch legs run a 4.4. I still think this argument is silly. Give me a guy that runs a 4.5 and can cut on a dime and give you change over a 4.35 straight line runner with questionable balance any day of the week
no argument here
just a casual exchange on the origins and manipulations of human speed (*hat tip Reggieball), move along Codaxx, move along.
Because being a Texas fan means never having to say you're sorry.
by dukeoforange on Dec 21, 2011 12:46 PM CST up reply actions
You just conceded that speed can be coached.
Coaching isn’t creating; it’s refining. Speed, strength, agility, etc. are all coached. The fact that some have greater natural abilities than others in those areas doesn’t change that.
"Anti-intellectualism has been a constant thread winding its way through our political and cultural life, nurtured by the false notion that democracy means that 'my ignorance is just as good as your knowledge.'"
― Isaac Asimov
by burntorangehorn on Dec 21, 2011 4:29 PM CST up reply actions
I wonder about Monroe's stamina
He looked completely winded after one run against Baylor, and he wasn’t shouldering a huge load. He may just have a pure sprinter’s metabolism—massive speed in short bursts, then an absolutely required time to recharge.
Good point.
There is a difference between mainline running endurance and short, quick burst endurance.
I don't think it's fair
to expect Harsin to fix ALL of the problems under the previous regime in only his first year. Remember, he’s still learning Big 12 defense. He’s continually tinkering with his offense, that doesn’t change after 1 season.
My opinion on DJ
I think Ghost overrates his abilities. I could be wrong but I think Ghost sees Chris Demps from Florida when he looks at DJ. They couldn’t be more different. DJ has no wiggle or moves whatsoever. For such a little guy, he is one of the stiffest athletes I have ever seen. DJ can’t make guys miss in the open field. Demps of Florida can make moves and use his wiggle to leave guys in the dust. Demps doesn’t just rely on his speed, which is better then DJ’s as well. To me he’s a poor man’s Ramonce who isn’t as versatile a player.
Cut!
No. No. No, man.
You're making me fall asleep,
to death bro! -Ghandi
by TexasGarcia37 on Dec 20, 2011 2:46 PM CST reply actions 1 recs
Not stiff at all,
very fluid. You can’t break the runs he has broken in the past (very few however) and be a stiff runner. A Demps he is not, but I don’t think from the limited data you can call him a stiff runner.
maybe stiff not right word
he certainly doesn’t have a whole lot of wiggle. when can you remember him juking someone out of their shoes? most of the time I see him trying to outrun everyone to the corner.
Cut!
No. No. No, man.
You're making me fall asleep,
to death bro! -Ghandi
by TexasGarcia37 on Dec 20, 2011 3:47 PM CST up reply actions
Is he ramonce without the weed?
See ya later, alligator and sheep-mater.
by Paleface Horn on Dec 21, 2011 9:58 AM CST up reply actions
What is the right number of carries for Monroe?
Harsin and Applewhite have basically given him the ball twice as often as Davis did. In what was a pretty crowded backfield for much of the season, Monroe carried the ball about 4 times per game. Compare that with Fozzy, who had a bit more than 7 carries per game. Monroe’s usage, relative to Fozzy’s, seems about right to me. But I want to know what others think.
I actually kind of like the way Monroe was used in the direct snap plays this season.
If Texas could institute a functioning screen pass game, there might be a role for Monroe there, and a way to get him the ball more often.
I am on Twitter @jeffchaley
Burnt Orange Nation
Put it another way...
What is the right number of sweep runs for a team to execute? And then, what fraction of these sweeps should Monroe carry? If you run the ball 40 times per game, and 10% of these runs are sweeps, you end up with 4 sweep plays, which is approximately Monroe’s total.
If we think Texas should use more sweeps (and I don’t know what their breakdown is, I am just making up numbers to illustrate a particular line of thinking), how many of them can we realistically ask them to call? Should the breakdown be 20-30% sweep runs? That would be a potentially productive way to get more carries for Monroe. From a practical standpoint, how many outside runs should a team use?
I am on Twitter @jeffchaley
Burnt Orange Nation
I'm disappointed that this question hasn't been answered.
I don’t know enough about football to be able to answer your question, but I think it’s a very relevant. If we were to increase his touches (uh, that’s what she said?), one of two things need to happen:
1. Monroe will be called upon to do things other than run jet sweeps
2. We increase the number of jet sweeps we run.
I think people have agreed that 1. is not an option. If 2. is also not an option, then I think this explains why Davis and Harsin use Monroe so sparingly.
I told the people of my district that I would serve them as faithfully as I had done; but if not ... you may all go to hell, and I will go to Texas. -- Davey Crockett
by pleaseplaykindle on Dec 21, 2011 4:54 PM CST up reply actions
Well,
Go back to the BYU game and watch our first significant drive of the night. Two straight, single back sets with Monroe resulted in over 30 yards of that drive. Simple zone read handoffs where Monroe excelled and carried the team on his back when he was needed. Look at his 26 yard catch against BYU also… the kid just makes plays when given the chance.
BS saying that all he can run is “jet sweeps”… is that you guys word of the day? Run toss sweeps, run counters, zone reads, shovel passes, slants, etc…
how can you run a screen
to a guy that does not block? It is a sure give away that screen is coming. LB will read it in seconds. Maybe you pull it off once, but that is the end of it
Fair point
I don’t know enough about football to answer this question. But to get a reasonable screen, the defense needs to think you are throwing downfield, right? Without much in the way of a downfield passing game, along with the fact that Monroe only makes it onto the field in special sets, you are probably right in that you are tipping off the defense.
I am on Twitter @jeffchaley
Burnt Orange Nation
I agree withmost of the above, but I just have the feeling that if DJ was playing somewhere else he would be a 1500 yd tailback.
I'd kill for a Nobel Peace Prize
by MeatchickenHorn on Dec 20, 2011 4:42 PM CST reply actions
or Houston or maybe even Kansas State.....hard to say.
I'd kill for a Nobel Peace Prize
by MeatchickenHorn on Dec 20, 2011 4:55 PM CST reply actions
or Orgeon
See ya later, alligator and sheep-mater.
by Paleface Horn on Dec 21, 2011 8:59 AM CST up reply actions
Monroe
would eat up yards like Pac-man at Oregon.
Hell, if given an opportunity I think he would eat up yards at any school.
I would like to see 110 carries and 25 receptions out of DJ one year… add about 25 kick returns as well. Imagine what those stats would look like
So would everybody.
Of course he would eat up yards like Pac-Man at Oregon. So would a lot of people – Oregon has a whole array of weapons on offense in terms of personnel and packages that the Longhorns (and most other teams) simply don’t have. Jet sweeps and end arounds work a lot better when you have a reliable vertical passing game and a complementary power game (which the horns haven’t had for the last 4 games).
Yea,
Chris Johnson would kill it at Oregon. Cuz when I think about Oregon’s offense, I picture guys like Joe Bergeron, Malcolm Brown and Chris Johnson.
Keep marginalizing the success of DJ Monroe, and indicate that “anyone” could do what he can. It’s pretty funny that all he does is bust big plays and continue to average over 7 yards per carry. I don’t see any others that are able to do what he can do with such limited opportunities
Maybe the problem was (in 2010) and is (in 2011) not with the offensive coordinators?
"Anti-intellectualism has been a constant thread winding its way through our political and cultural life, nurtured by the false notion that democracy means that 'my ignorance is just as good as your knowledge.'"
― Isaac Asimov
by burntorangehorn on Dec 20, 2011 6:14 PM CST reply actions
When a guy only has 1 play that he can run......i
…things like the Brown/Bergeron/Whitaker injuries really undercut his effectiveness. First off, bringing him in still has the same problem as last year, he’s either getting the ball or he’s a decoy – for that reason alone, havin Goodwin in the game offers some advantages from a placalling standpoint even though he’s kind of lousy at making cuts upfield and in traffic.
Second, if I’m not mistaken, didn’t defenses routinely start to send corner blitzes/pressure of the edges to counter the wildcat once the threat of Fozzy up the middle disappeared – that basically means that the jet sweep is an automatic loss if the blitz is called to the playside.
Considering that that’s his only running play, and considering that keeping the defense honest with runs up the middle/passing got harder as the year went on, I don’t blame Harsin for shying away from it (a 6 yard loss is basically a drive killer for this team currently)
by Dreadful on Dec 20, 2011 8:55 PM CST reply actions 1 recs
6 yard loss?
Well, considering the fact that Monroe had only 1 carry in 2011 where he lost ANY yards (Oklahoma Stat he had a -2 yard carry)… I wouldn’t think that Harsin would have to worry about too many 6 yards losses when DJ gets the rock.
Yes, a 6 yard loss
…that’s what happens when you run the jet sweep into the teeth of a cheating LB/DB who’s keying on it, be it Monroe, Goodwin, Shipley etc. The fact that Monroe doesn’t have too many of them is more indicative of Harsin’s ability to recognize this rather than any inherent loss avoiding-ness of Monroe.
The whole play thrives on misdirection – when you’re unable to create the same amount of misdirection because you can’t gash up the middle anymore, you can’t run it with the same effect. Add that to not having to respect the pass and it’s even worse.
Okay,
So Monroe isn’t losing yards because Harsin is able to recognize defenses? Gotcha… I think we have had plenty of plays this year when Harsin called some trick play that ended up losing 15+ yards. I guess Harsin’s “ability to recognize” the defense didn’t have anything to do with those losses though.
Bottom line - Monroe can jet. He never loses yards, and you don’t do the things that he does if you don’t have any “moves”.
The reason Monroe didn't get stuffed on jet sweeps is because they weren't expected every time he stepped on the field
That’s a direct function of him not getting a large number of carries. If you tripled Monroe’s sweeps, do you really think there would be no corresponding decrease in yards per carry? A sweep is a constraint play; you can’t call it unless the defense gives it to you.
undefeated in Sun Belt play
Monroe
has had success with counters, sweeps, pitches, flares, KR’s, and receiver screens… sweeps are certainly not the only plays that he has been great at.
He NEVER loses yards because he is a fast and elusive runner. He has the majority of our explosive runs over the last few years with limited touches.
You predicting what he would or wouldn’t do is irrelevant.
The point of this thread is he has proven capable, yet hasn’t been given an opportunity to prove himself.
"You predicting what he would or wouldn’t do is irrelevant."
Your entire hissy-fit in this thread is about your prediction of what Monroe would do with more touches. How exactly is this point irrelevant?
All of the plays you mentioned are constraint plays. If the defense isn’t stacking the box and over-pursuing, none of those will work. You can’t simply decide “I think DJ needs another touch” and call a sweep or a screen without regard to the defense’s tendencies. There are a finite number of times a constraint play will work.
While DJ is certain great at running those constraint plays, he’s not particularly useful on other offensive plays. At least Goodwin can give you a similar constraint while still remaining a threat for normal plays.
undefeated in Sun Belt play
No, I am not making predictions
I am simply stating that he has earned the right to atleast have an opportunity to prove me or you right/wrong regarding his talent (or lack there of.)
And again, watch the kid run… you guys act like he has had gaping holes to run behind his entire career. He makes positive yards and eludes blockers on a regular basis. Try watching video of the kid. He is a threat to take it to the house every time he gets the football. There is not one player that has proved they have that ability on the current UT offense. Fozzy was a guy that could, but he was always hurt.
"He is a threat to take it to the house every time he gets the football."
Careful, you just made a prediction about how well he could do on any play. This thread isn’t predicting about what you think would be best for the team; it’s about regurgitating stats without concern for application or utility.
I know that DJ is excellent at what he does; I just think that “what he does” is much more limited than the other running backs on the team.
undefeated in Sun Belt play
Yea,
can you run the counters, sweeps, reverses, WR screens with Bergeron and Brown? They seem pretty limited to me… just smash-mouth RB’s.
I understand the limitations of DJ. The point is, he has PROVEN time after time (even recently against Baylor) that he can take it to the house from a long distance. He is a game-changer that every defensive coordinator has to account for. His flexibility is huge and you can not teach speed. You either have it or you don’t
Did you not see Brown running counters/sweeps this season
or Monroe running sweeps/screens? Using Brown with Goodwin lets you threaten the entire field. Replacing another back with Monroe hurts your ability to threaten inside, and replacing a receiver hurts your ability to threaten down the field.
Again, Monroe has “PROVEN time after time that he can take it to the house from a long distance” on constraint plays. Monroe hasn’t proven in games (and apparently not in practice either) that he can do so on normal plays. You can’t build an entire offense on constraint plays.
undefeated in Sun Belt play
You are ignoring the statisit chupita brought up.
ONE touch that ended up as a loss. You can’t NOT give DJ the ball just because you FEAR he will lose yards, or else, why run any play?
It was directly addressed.
There’s a relationship between usage v. efficiency that you’re simply not comprehending, particularly strong in the case of one-trick ponies like Monroe.
99 career runs/receptions for over 700 yds
How can some people argue he’s not a good football player? We’ve all seen him break-off long runs and make explosive plays. He just needs to be on the field more. I remember a play this season where a fake to DJ made the entire defense take a step towards his side of the field. Everyone on that defense knew who 26 was. The coaches knew who he was. That tells you the guy is a potent weapon that needs to be used.
My source close to the program can beat up your source close to the program!
that is not the pt
He is a solid player at what he does. He is not an every down player. There is a huge difference. He is limited it what he does, that limits his use in the offense. He doesnt block well and he he can not run up the middle. The hands thing I can not comment on, I do not see practice and he has not gotten enough opportunities to make judgments on his hands. Keep in mind, we do not have a dominant O-line, so it is unlikely the offense will succeed if it tips its hand.
I don't think
many people would debate the fact that DJ is not an every down player. I think the point is, he can be a 10-15 touches per game player.
just to give you an idea
DJ: 53 touches 4 plays over 20 yds.. 7.5%
bergeron: 69 – 4: 5.7%
Davis: 45 – 6: 13.3%
Jaxson: 51-5: 9.8%
where in those stats does it argue he deserves a lot more touches?
Where in those stats
does it say he shouldn’t get more touches? It’s a lot easier for a WR to have touches over 20 yards. What’s MB’s percentage? How about Hills?
think
give DJ and Bergeron the ball 100 times. DJ will have 7 big plays to Bergeron’s 5. The difference is minimal. Bergeron allows you to run up the middle. He can block in pass protection. If he needs to he can put his head down and get 2 yds when there is no hole. Would you give up that flexibility for 2 additional big plays in 100 touches?
Where are you getting those numbers from?
And even if they are correct of COURSE you would take the player who has more big plays. I’m going to have to ask you to “think” on that one. What in the world would make you choose Bergeron based on those stats? Do you like him better?
I’ll sum it up with this: 7 big plays > 5 big plays
cfbstats has all off it
That is an amazingly simplistic way to look at it. You need to throw out half your play book to get those 7 big plays. You can run 90% to get those 5. Now those are the individual numbers. Given you can get additional blocking in pass situations, you will probably get more big plays out of Davis and Jaxson.
Besides,
nobody is saying even carries for MB/JB and DJ, just a few more touches a game. You are making it sound like a couple more touches a game would detriment the ability of our RBs to block or pick up short yardage situations.
so who do you take them from?
Goodwin is averaging 9.5 per rush. He has 50 touches and 7 big plays. 14% .. There are finite number of touches. Since you and chupita love those stats doesnt that argue that Goodwin should be getting 16-18 touches if DJ needs 12-15?
I would say 15
is way too many but you can’t argue the benefits of DJ with the ball. Goodwin never runs from the backfield which is something we have done with DJ some this year.
I don’t care who gets it out of Goodwin, DJ, Joe in the stands, as long as they get positive yards. I say that because it HAS been argued that Goodwin needs to touch the ball more as well.
You are acting like we can’t successfully execute our “regular” offense if we take a touch or two away from MB/JB/Goodwin, etc etc.
Isn't that the problem, though?
People are always asking for more touches for different players. Everyone can’t get more touches.
no
I am just saying that getting DJ more involved is much more complicated than you are making it out. I am saying we can not run base offense with DJ. That in and of itself is a limiting factor. I am also saying DJs actually performance does not warrant taking many carries away from Goodwin and MB. DJ and Marquise have a very similar role in the rushing attack. Both primarily run the jet sweep. So I think this is the best comparison. Goodwin 20 carries, 9.35 average, 3+ 20 yd plays (long 31, so it isnt because of just one long run). DJ 47 att, 6.94 ave, 3+ 20 yd plays. So when comparing similar roles he is easily being out-played. Fact that DJ and Bergeron are close on explosive plays, shows you people are over-estimating DJ’s explosiveness
by codaxx on Dec 21, 2011 1:55 PM CST reply actions 1 recs
Goodwin and DJ
Are not a similar role whatsoever… DJ is a RB, while Goodwin is a WR. I shouldn’t have to explain the difference in those 2 positions.
I don’t think I remember the game when Goodwin took a handoff 60 yards to paydirt. Or even 51 yards for that fact
Just because the positions on the roster are different doesn't mean
they don’t have similar roles in parts of the offense. Goodwin has run plenty of sweeps and reverses this year – the exact same role DJ has. He has 20 carries and a 9.5 ypc average on the season.
"parts of the offense"
I can agree with… Monroe will take handoffs lined up as a RB or reverses when split wide. He has better vision, and has proven that he can take it to the goal from a RB position. That is something Goodwin has not done… he is simply a fast WR that can take reverses and pick up nice yards per carry.
again
just comparing Goodwin v DJ in the running game where their roles are very similar.
Monroe: 47 carries and 3 explosive plays.
Goodwin: 20 carries and 3 explosive plays. Averages almost 3 more yards a carry
How can you argue with a straight face that Monroe has been more explosive
Goodwin
is ONLY taking reverses… Monroe lines up in multiple formations next to the QB, flanker, split wide, etc….
Tell me the last time you saw Goodwin take one 60 yards for a TD… or even 51 yards… Goodwin is not the threat that Monroe is. He is a wide receiver that always lines up as a WR.
There's a huge difference between position and threat.
When DJ lines up next to the QB, he’s a threat to edge. When DJ lines up as a flanker, he’s a threat to the edge. When DJ is split wide, he’s a threat to the edge. When Goodwin lines up at WR, he’s a threat to the edge or to run a route and catch something. When Brown lines up anywhere, he’s a threat to run inside, to the edge (though not nearly as well as the other two), or to stay home and block.
If you have Goodwin and Brown on the field, you can threaten to run Brown inside, Brown/Goodwin outside, or to throw it long with Brown staying to block. With Monroe and Goodwin, you can’t threaten the inside run and the loss of the blocker makes deep passing riskier.
DJ is the biggest threat to the edge of the three, but the team loses a lot of playcalling options with him in there. That’s why he’s a situational player who isn’t particularly useful on the great majority of plays.
undefeated in Sun Belt play
That's what you think.
People are saying (myself included) that things like wheel routes, quick screens,(which they use DJ in a bit) quick slants, etc to get him the ball as a WR. As was pointed out to me, he has been thrown to 6 times with no drops.
Yes, when DJ is in, there is some limitations, but a lot of us argue that doesn’t have to be the case. Watch his highlights, then tell me he’s not useful on a lot of different plays.
if you are saying
that Goodwin isnt just a capable of taking it 60 yds on a play, you are kidding yourself. He does have an 80 yd TD to his credit. Goodwin is a potential Olympic athlete. Goodwin ran the 100 @ 10.38 in high school vs 10.45 for DJ. Both guys can fly. You are simply arguing to argue at this pt.
Well,
Has Goodwin taken a RUNNING play 60 yards for a TD? Or 60 yards period for that matter? No, 31 is his longest rush ever.
Sure, Goodwin caught an 80 yard TD pass. He’s a WR!!!
Goodwin has less than half the carries that Monroe has
Give him another 27 carries, and I’m betting he takes one to the house.
The point of this whole thread was, why is DJ Monroe not getting more touches, and the answer is because Goodwin is doing at least as well on an a per carry basis as Monroe, while allowing the offense to be more multiple.
Having said all of that, I would like to see Monroe get a few more touches a game, although anything above 10 seems a little high.
why?
I would bet most of DJ carries have been on Jet sweeps. Very similar. Not sure why you think it is vastly different.
So Goodwin is almost the same running threat as Monroe
and is a much bigger receiving threat. That’s not a good argument for using Monroe instead of Goodwin for our constraint plays.
undefeated in Sun Belt play
Exactly,
They’re in diffierent roles. One of them can jet sweep and do nothing else. One of them can jet sweep and run deep routes and catch the ball, and occasionally land a KO block, though he’s not really a good blocker.
Which option do you think is better to have on the field for the majority of downs?
Are you saying Goodwin
Can “catch the deep ball”? That’s funny stuff right there. Both average approximately the same yards per catch during their careers.
And Monroe busts 60 yard TD runs against top 25 teams on a regular basis. Goodwin? Well, that was a great block against UCLA.
Goodwin can catch the downfield passes, yes
But I know you can understand that the guys have the same yds/rec even if one of them never catches downfield passes, while the other one does, right? The dividend is the total of yardage from the line of scrimmage to the end of the play, including YAC; it sounds like you’re trying to say that yds/rec actually measures the number of yards downfield the receiver is when he makes the catch. That’s not the case.
"Anti-intellectualism has been a constant thread winding its way through our political and cultural life, nurtured by the false notion that democracy means that 'my ignorance is just as good as your knowledge.'"
― Isaac Asimov
by burntorangehorn on Dec 23, 2011 12:51 PM CST up reply actions
Sure it's more complicated for us,
but not for a D1 offensive coordinator.
You are wrong. His yards per touch definitely warrant taking a few carries away to get him to about 10-12 a game. I don’t know why you would think differently.
DJ and Goodwin are completely different. Going off your stats, who has more touchdowns out of DJ and Goodwin?
And please explain how JB and DJ are “close on explosive plays”.
"but not for a D1 offensive coordinator"
And yet two vastly different D1 coordinators both disagree with you. Harsin and Davis know a little more about Monroe than any of us, and if they agree on something, I’m inclined to trust them.
undefeated in Sun Belt play
Just so I'm clear, are you now arguing that Harsin and Davis aren't "vastly different" coordinators?
Nice.
undefeated in Sun Belt play
What?
How would you ever infer that by what I said? GD had DJ for longer than Harsin, and had his offense established already. Harsin still has a ways to go getting what he wants as far as offense goes.
Again, what makes you think I’m saying that? Why are you quoting “vastly different” like I said that?
What are GD and Harsin “agreeing on”? Harsin has come out a few times and said DJ needs to get the ball more. Your point?
Ok, so what "judgment" of mine were you attacking?
I made two points: that Harsin and Davis are different and that Harsin and Davis used Monroe in the same way. If you don’t disagree with the former, I suppose your point is that Harsin and Davis didn’t use Monroe in the exact same way?
undefeated in Sun Belt play
You said:
And yet two vastly different D1 coordinators both disagree with you. Harsin and Davis know a little more about Monroe than any of us, and if they agree on something, I’m inclined to trust them.
You are making a judgement that, just because GD and Harsin use DJ the same way, that they will continue to do that. This is Harsin’s FIRST year. He has come out and said he wants to get DJ the ball, and he will tinker his offense more as he becomes more accustomed to Big 12 defense.
Just because they are using DJ the same way now, doesn’t mean he will ALWAYS be used the same way. Harsin still has a lot of work to do.
By the way,
Harsin has said plenty of times that DJ needs to get the ball more, so he disagrees with you.
So Harsin knows that DJ is a good player, yet Harsin still couldn't find more ways to get him the ball.
It’s almost like Monroe is a situationally useful player who can’t just be given the ball regardless of circumstances.
Harsin wants to give DJ Monroe more plays, but he can’t. How exactly does that disagree with me?
undefeated in Sun Belt play
What are you trying to say?
It’s almost like Monroe is a situationally useful player who can’t just be given the ball regardless of circumstances.
Where are you getting this from? That’s your opinion, which is fine. But Harsin has come out and said DJ needs to get the ball more, that’s it.
You are making some kind of assumption that, because GD and Harsin don’t get the ball to DJ, that he’s a bad player. And you’re saying because they both don’t, they disagree with me. I’m telling you that Harsin said DJ needs to get the ball more, and that’s on him.
I'll break it down a bit
1. Harsin is a creative coordinator who wants to maximize his offensive output without being beholden to a specific system.
2. Harsin wants DJ Monroe to get the ball more.
3. Harsin could only find ways to get DJ Monroe the ball under limited circumstances (almost exclusively threats to the edge).
Faced with these premises, you can draw one of three conclusions:
It’s possible that Harsin is an idiot who can’t figure out how to use Monroe. I’ll call that one unlikely.
It’s possible that Harsin found ways to get Monroe the ball, but those plays would be too complicated to put into the playbook in a single season. Considering the wide number of formations, runs involving non-quarterbacks, and the many iterations of the wildcat, I don’t think it’s plausible to say that the team just couldn’t squeeze in enough practice time to learn a fun and creative new play or two.
The final possibility is that DJ is only really useful as an edge constraint. Harsin may want to give Monroe 15 carries a game, but DJ’s limitations simply prevent that. If Harsin actively wants to give DJ more touches but simply can’t find a way, that would tend to agree with me and disagree with the opposing “he needs X number of touches no matter what” crowd.
Ok, so which one do you think is true? Does Harsin really want to give DJ more carries but is just too busy/lazy to do it, or does Harsin wish he could give DJ more carries but is stopped by DJ’s inherent limitations?
undefeated in Sun Belt play
by LongCat on Dec 21, 2011 3:54 PM CST up reply actions 1 recs
Give him the ball
with a punchers chance to get outside and he will make you proud is my point.
You guys act like a mack truck could drive through the holes that DJ exposes. It’s simply not the case. DJ has proven that he can make plays time and time again. Give him the ball more and allow him to show us whether he can handle more. Sometimes play makers just need opportunities. Not crediting the kid for the explosive plays that he has made is ridiculous. Playmakers make plays… period!
Talk about “limitations”… our QB play creates the limitations that you speak of, not DJ Monroe.
he can play
but he is best at one play. Using his speed to the outside. It is a limited role. He has not really made that many plays. He has made same amount of big plays as Goodwin with twice the touches.
You are assuming that
Goodwin makes the same amount of big plays with the same amount of touches. Which is fine, but DJ has shown to be more versatile. Does he catch as many balls as Goodwin? No, but he catches quick screens just like Goodwin, he takes reverses, direct handoffs, etc etc.
You can live with that assumption. That’s fine. But I’ll take the stats. Let’s see what happens next year when Harsin is more comfortable.
Both a threats to the edge, both can catch screens, and only one is a threat in the downfield passing game.
How is DJ more versatile?
undefeated in Sun Belt play
He gets the ball differently,
lines up differently, etc. That’s how he’s more versatile. DJ can catch and take a handoff. Goodwin cannot.
and only one is a threat in the downfield passing game.
Prove that. Prove that Goodwin is a bigger downfield threat. Give me a video from this year where he caught a pass downfield.
Why does the manner in which the player get the ball have any bearing?
If both players are attacking the same defensive tendency, does it matter how the QB gives him the ball?
As for the downfield threat, I’m pretty sure a reputable, esteemed poster said “Does he catch as many balls as Goodwin? No”
And I know it’s fun to argue on the internet, but you can’t both (a) watch all of Texas’ games and (b) honestly not see how Goodwin is a downfield threat.
undefeated in Sun Belt play
Lets clarify
1 more time for the cheap seats…
DJ Monroe is a RB, while Goodwin is a WR.
Goodwin averages 10 yards per catch, I wouldn’t go as far as saying he is a real “WR” at all. Pretty sure DJ could have dropped that TD pass from Ash as good as Goodwin did.
Goodwin, has and never will stand next to the QB and take a handoff 60 yards to the end zone. Ever!
Ok, please tell me which of these you disagree with:
1. Monroe and Goodwin’s roles in the running game is to attack the edge and act as a constraint.
2. If two plays attack and constrain the same defensive tendency, they serve the same role in the offense.
3. DJ Monroe is a worse inside runner and blocker than the other running backs on the team.
4. DJ Monroe is a worse receiver than Goodwin.
5. DJ Monroe is a better, but not significantly better, threat to the edge than Goodwin.
I’m really at a loss for your thought process in all of this.
undefeated in Sun Belt play
I disagree with
#1, #2, #4, #5…
And am still questioning the validity of #3. But it does seem logical given his size limitations.
yea,
that you have no clue what you are talking about, but have a lot of opinions.
Aww, you hurt my little feelings.
It makes me sad that someone who lacks a basic understanding of offensive playcalling disagrees with me.
In the spirit of comity, I will agree with you. DJ Monroe doesn’t attack the edge, he is a power inside runner. Fly sweeps, jet sweeps, and quick screens serve totally different roles in the offense. DJ Monroe is an excellenet blocker who may take over for Johnson at fullback. Monroe is such a badass receiver that the coaches didn’t move him from the position years ago. DJ’s yards per carry so vastly eclipse Goodwin’s that its insulting to mention them in the same sentence.
Now will you take back the mean things you said?
undefeated in Sun Belt play
Disagreements
happen on this board frequently. There’s no reason for both of ya’ll to shoot at each other like you have.
You shouldn't disagree with any of those
The closest one to being untrue is #5.
"Anti-intellectualism has been a constant thread winding its way through our political and cultural life, nurtured by the false notion that democracy means that 'my ignorance is just as good as your knowledge.'"
― Isaac Asimov
by burntorangehorn on Dec 21, 2011 9:06 PM CST up reply actions
First,
1. I pointed to ATLEAST 3 plays where DJ Monroe lined up next to the QB as a true tailback. All were very successful and he was not playing a “constraint” role with the offense. He was a TB that took the handoff, bounced outside and picked up significant yards. So, I disagree and will direct you to proof that Monroe isn’t the same type of runner as Goodwin.
2. I assume that you mean “two players”, and again… I disagree that the two play the same role in the offense.
3. Who knows, that’s not what he is asked to do. Saying that he is even near the “worse runner” at anything is laughable. Inside or otherwise. The fact is, we don’t know… it’s not what he’s asked to do
4. Well, Goodwin is pretty friggin bad, so that is setting the bar pretty low. Again, I assume you can prove that? I have seen Goodwin drop PLENTY of passes that hit him right in the hands. Don’t recall EVER seeing Monroe drop a pass. That goes back to the point of the original thread. Let’s find out… throw him the ball Harsin. He looked pretty good with a flare pass this year, and a WR screan against BYU. He averages almost as many yards per catch as Goodwin, so you tell me. I would enjoy proof over your opinion.
5. IMO DJ Monroe is 25 times the runner that Goodwin is. I still haven’t seen Goodwin bust a 60 yard run against a top 5 team in the nation.
I am at a loss for yours… you spew opinions and don’t like it when people disagree.
1. Why does his initial position affect whether something constraint play?
2. No, I’m saying that, if a halfback sweep and a fly sweep both attempt to punish the defense for overloading the box, they serve the same constraining purpose.
3. There’s a reason no one even asks him to try to block or run up the middle. Watch how well Monroe responds to contact compared to Brown.
4. I agree that Goodwin has been disappointing, but I’m certain Monroe would do worse. He started as a WR and was moved to the backfield for a reason.
5. In the past two years, Goodwin has a greater yards per carry. While I’d agree that Monroe is a better runner, how can you believe Monroe is “25 times” better?
undefeated in Sun Belt play
No.
It obviously doesn’t matter how they get the ball. See, it makes defenses worse when they know exactly how each player will get the ball. No reason to jet sweep, no reason to quick screen. Just straight hand off. That will work wonders.
Give me a youtube clip of Goodwin catching the ball downfield and you win.
Really. Really.
You call that “downfield”? I guess your definition is very generous.
Do you have another, actual, downfield pass?
Ok, I admit to being an asshole above, but what is so objectionable about that comment?
You asked for a downfield pass. I showed you a 37 yard pass. You made a sarcastic post claiming that 37 yards isn’t downfield. I made a sarcastic response that it was.
I’m sorry that you made a hyperbolic claim about the lack of a video and were proven wrong.
undefeated in Sun Belt play
By your generous definition,
5 yards is down the field. Do you not see how your youtube video or argument about him being a downfield threat holds no water? If you don’t, I’m sorry.
Even if, for some reason, a play like that does mean he’s a downfield threat, that’s one instance. He hasn’t been, during his entire career, a “hit him deep” kind of guy.
"By your generous definition, 5 yards is down the field."
So far the only pass I’ve characterized as “downfield” was 37 yards. What’s your minimum cut-off for a downfield pass?
undefeated in Sun Belt play
I would generally say
anything over 50. But that doesn’t mean that’s the line. My point is:
One 37 yard catch does not a downfield threat make.
Goodwin averages
Right at 10 yards per catch over his career… did you see the pass that hit him in the numbers against Baylor for a should be Touchdown.
I wouldn’t consider Goodwin a “downfield” threat
and almost 10 yds per rush
in similar role to DJ
and
not 1 run of more than 30 yards and not a single td.
You're really clinging to that single TD this year
Cojo has the same TD’s this year as Brown and Bergeron. Guess they are exactly the same.
Did you see that for sure TD DJ didn't get last year
Goodwin could have not gotten a TD just as good!
by Horncasting on Dec 21, 2011 4:34 PM CST up reply actions 1 recs
. But I’ll take the stats
stats say Goodwin is more productive, so now you have completely lost me
Are you saying
we should move Goodwin to RB?
Malcolm Brown has 3 times the attempts as Monroe. Perhaps this thread should be about Goodwin getting moved to TB?
I'm saying
That moving some of DJ’s touches to Goodwin this year hasn’t resulted in any drop off in performance in those plays. Between Monroe and Goodwin, they carried the ball 66 times this year. If Monroe were to have all 66 of those carries, I don’t think the rushing totals would have been significantly different. In my opinion it is likely that they would have been actually worse.
Neither.
Again, I’m not sure if you are reading my posts, or if you are just coming up with defenses once you see my reply but this is more likely:
This is Harsin’s FIRST year as OC here. Do you really think his offense is fully implemented? Do you really think he has a 100% idea about every player he has? No.
I think Harsin wants to get DJ the ball more (like he says) but understands his offense isn’t fully implemented. I mean, think about our O this year. It was a hot mess. Give Harsin a chance to get into his comfort zone.
probably true
not to mention losing all his RBs and more importantly his base running game has greatly effected DJs touches.
So you went for option 2: Harsin couldn't find the time to put in this magical play that will give DJ the ball in a non-constraint situation.
Amazing he found the time to install much more complex plays and packages.
undefeated in Sun Belt play
What?
complex plays and packages.
With our batch of QBs we have run a very watered down defense. Are you alluding to the trick plays? Notice how those went away. Think Harsin has in everything he wants? Fine by me.
How many different wildcat packages did the team have?
How many bizarre formations did the team use?
I’m pretty sure those continued all season and took up precious practice time that could have been spent installing the mysterious DJ Monroe plays you think are coming.
undefeated in Sun Belt play
100 touches
DJ at 160 lbs will have 2 more explosive plays than bergeron. That is what the stats say. That is damn close. Not quite sure what you are saying.
So you wouldn't take
2 more explosive plays. This is all murky because of the circumstances of the touches (how the play is ran, and all that), but you are forgoing a higher chance (whether you think it’s minimal or not, it’s STILL a higher chance) that he breaks a play.
no
I would not. Because the 230 lb runner is perfectly capable in almost any situation. That is the difference. In order to increase DJs role you need to change the standard offensive package. You do not need to do that with Bergeron. That is the difference. Plus Bergeron you have multiple options to set up other people. Bergeron’s explosive plays came out of the base offense and set up other people. The offense can leverage off of him to create many more opportunities for others. Most of Monroe’s big plays he leveraged off off others (generally run fake inside the tackle boxes to suck in the LBs and safties)
Plus Bergeron you have multiple options to set up other people.
You mean, like to set up DJ? Harsin changes the offensive packages all the time, that makes no difference. Besides, DJ gets the ball when Brown/Bergeron is on the field, what’s your point? Nobody is acting like DJ is more important than Bergeron, but you make it sound difficult to get DJ some more plays.
my pt
is that bergeron fits into the base offense and you got similar results in explosive plays. Seems pretty clear.
To compare Bergeron
and DJ is dumb. I won’t try and explain why again as I’ve already tried, but it’s apples and oranges.
It’s OBVIOUS that we would have JB/MB/etc in for basic offense, but Harsin changes formations quite frequently. I’m not sure what “base offense” you are referring to.
I know DJ v Bergeron is apples to oranges
I only showed the 2 because they have similar amount of explosive plays, despite Bergeron being 70 LB heavier and running less risky plays.
even though
we were 5-7 and 7-4?
And the kid continues to run circles around tough compettition… i suppose you agree that he shouldn’t have carried the ball after the 60 yard TD against OU too?
by the way
first 2 LOI came today. Moore and Hawkins.
Hey everybody, Shipley has a high QB rating
should’t we get him 10-15 thorws a game? I’m just saying, you can’t argue with stats like that.
by Dreadful on Dec 22, 2011 11:32 AM CST reply actions 2 recs
Shipley
is a valuable weapon that you definitely need to get the ball into his hands. He is one of the few playmakers that UT has on the offensive side of the ball.
Monroe is another one. The difference is the coaches FIND creative ways to get the ball into Shipleys hands and good things usually happen.
That is not the case for Monroe… yet he capitalizes on almost all of the chances he gets, and NEVER loses yardage (which is critical in this offense). Marginalize his results all you want… but he still just breaks off big play after big play and continues to put the pressure on Harsin to answer questions about why he isn’t being utilized more. It’s really not that difficult to comprehend, yet to some it seems to be a big challenge.
this is where you have 0 standing
“but he still just breaks off big play after big play”
He has 4 plays over 20 yds this yr and 1 TD in 53 touches. That is not breaking off big play after big play. Stats bear it out. I think this is the crux of the argument. I will agree he has the potential to break it every time he touches the ball, but he is not making good on that potential. For all of us on the these boards I hope he becomes what you think he is now and reaches his full potential.
by codaxx on Dec 22, 2011 12:30 PM CST up reply actions 1 recs
It's clear
that DJ probably can’t do a lot besides run the ball (outside only). He probably struggles blocking and catching. I’d say there is a reason two different OC’s aren’t using him much.
As was pointed out to me:
Thrown to 6 times, caught 6 times.
And they don’t depend on him to block, just like they don’t depend on Goodwin to block.
Are
you telling me that, if DJ were to line up at TB next to the QB and there is a hole up the middle that he couldn’t hit it?
??
we have seen with great blocking that Cojo can run 70 yards. That is irrelevant. Term playmaker in my book means you can make people miss and take a 5 yd play and turn into 30-40. Sadly, that is something I have not seen from any Longhorn in a few seasons. Yes, there are fast guys that with the proper call and proper blocking can score, but I am waiting for a guy that can create something out of nothing
Johnson is clearly the best running back on the team and is being wasted in his current role.
No running back has more touchdowns than him and he has the longest run of the season for the entire team. That’s statistically proven explosiveness and playmakery.
undefeated in Sun Belt play
Him having more touchdowns
is not “statistically proven explosiveness”. It’s, “let’s give him the ball from 10 yards in”.
Well I'm glad someone else agrees that plucking random stats from the aether isn't a good way to decide how to best use a player.
undefeated in Sun Belt play
I gather that you don't like to be wrong,
so when you were proven wrong, you backtrack and call sarcasm.
Yes, I honestly think Cody Johnson is a fast, explosive runner.
I was in no way mocking the vapid arguments that DJ Monroe should play more simply based on a few stat lines. After all, I hadn’t argued against that line of reasoning a single time in the thread already.
Also, I’m pretty sure that the poster above who said Shipley should play QB based on his high passer rating was totally serious. Can you believe that guy?
undefeated in Sun Belt play
Continue.
I don’t think you’ve used enough sarcasm to cover yourself yet. You tried to use somebody else’s logic sarcastically and it caught you in the butt.
Attribution of error.
I thought it was pretty clear what LongCat was saying
Even as I read it the first time, it was obvious that LongCat was illustrating the point that using statistics that don’t tell what one thinks they tell, out of context, to rationalize a utilization argument is not particuarly meaningful. It was pretty obvious that “That’s statistically proven explosiveness and playmakery” was pointing out that statistics don’t prove explosiveness or play-making, because Johnson is a number of good things, but not explosive or a big-play guy.
"Anti-intellectualism has been a constant thread winding its way through our political and cultural life, nurtured by the false notion that democracy means that 'my ignorance is just as good as your knowledge.'"
― Isaac Asimov
by burntorangehorn on Dec 23, 2011 1:02 PM CST up reply actions
Politics
I think we all know that there is a lot of politics that goes into real life situations. Clearly there is something political that is keeping DJ from seeing the field more often.
DJ had two carries against Tech… the first one for 6 yards, and the second one was a 12 yard TD run. He never touched the ball again in that game. The entire 2nd half. Similar to the OU game last year.
Not football related,
but I love how people who don’t necessarily agree with what they are spoon fed are “tin foil hat” wearers. That’s super cool bro.
It's what happens
when morons don’t have a response to a legitimate question.
You said "[c]learly there is something political that is keeping DJ from seeing the field more often."
Other than the adverb “clearly,” do you have any actual evidence of this claim?
undefeated in Sun Belt play
I suppose that
you have the evidence that it doesn’t?
I’m not the only one asking why DJ is not getting more touches… the media is asking, fans are asking, etc.
It’s clearly not due to lack of production, so you tell me… what else could it be?
Do you think he got the right amount of carries last year?
Several posters throughout the thread have given reasons why Monroe's touches were limited.
You’re free to disagree with those reasons, but you can’t pretend that the only possible explanation is some multi-regime coaching conspiracy to voluntarily forgo offensive production in order to punish DJ Monroe.
undefeated in Sun Belt play
Again,
His performance, and overall statistics would contradict any reason for Monroe to not have more touches. The very thread is based on the same discontent for the lack of incorporating him in the game more.
I'm glad we're not even trying to argue about reasons and strategy.
Context-free stats are all that matter.
undefeated in Sun Belt play
Here's to arguing "reasoning and strategy"
We had two very good running backs at the beginning of the year. We ran them into the ground. We relied on Jeremy Hills. Jeremy Hills. You don’t think taking 5 or so carries away from each and distributed them to DJ, Goodwin, WHOEVER, would’ve helped?
agreed
we did run them into the ground .Neither should have been in up 30 in the 4q. In both cases the offense was doing great and game was in control. Had the staff put in back-ups the season might have been different, but that has nothing to do with DJs carries
Regarding that argument,
I stand by my position that Monroe is only useful in certain situations based largely on defensive tendencies. If the defense is playing honestly and not setting up a constraint play, the types of plays Monroe is good at won’t work.
In a perfect world, defenses would always leave the flare or the sweep open and DJ could run all over them. If the defense doesn’t, you can’t simply declare that Monroe should get more touches and expect his production to continue.
undefeated in Sun Belt play
You're making it too complicated.
With the correct blocking scheme, you can hide certain plays that DJ runs (jet sweep, quick screen, etc) right up until the play is snapped.
In Harsin’s formations, the D should be looking for multiple plays. Just because DJ is on the field doesn’t mean they are looking for a jet sweep or whatever. You still run the play.
Constraint plays like those aren't going to average 6 yards a pop if you simply hope that the defense won't see it coming pre-snap.
They punish the defense for over-pursuing and cheating in their alignment. If the defense is already playing honestly, you’re going to get stuffed.
Chris Brown at Smart Football gives a solid description of the constraint theory of offense.
undefeated in Sun Belt play
Nice article, but:
If you’re a great run team, you need constraints that attack safeties and linebackers who all cheat by formation and post-snap effort to stop your run game.
It’s too simplistic. Offensive and defensive alignment and pre-snap changes, movement, etc are way more complicated than he makes it. That article is archaic in thinking.
Besides, without getting into it much, on jet sweeps, there are usually about three options a QB has. Give to primary RB, give to runner sweeping across formation, or QB keeps. All of those attack the D in different ways. hence why you can hide what you’re actually doing.
What are those "certain situations"
When you want to outrun the defense, score touchdowns and not lose yardage?
The media? The fans?
Okay, a couple of message-board posters are asking. That’s basically it.
Coaches have actually said in the past that DJ has playbook problems. It’s obvious they don’t trust him, and there’s exactly zero reason to think it’s political, unless you think Harsin found some hidden message Greg Davis carved on the underside of his desk for him. Or if you think it had something to do with Monroe’s brief legal issue, which would seem unlikely.
"Anti-intellectualism has been a constant thread winding its way through our political and cultural life, nurtured by the false notion that democracy means that 'my ignorance is just as good as your knowledge.'"
― Isaac Asimov
by burntorangehorn on Dec 23, 2011 1:13 PM CST up reply actions
I suggested this as a possiblity myself
Although I don’t recall reading about any coaches verifying it. Maybe I just missed it – a link should put this whole argument to bed.
Coaches have actually said in the past that DJ has playbook problems
Proud of your offense? Manny badger don't give a shit!
I think a few of BON's official contributors regularly cited Greg Davis' statement
A little googling didn’t turn up a true quote within context, but it did turn up an isolated reference to what was ostensibly a Davis quot and an admission by Monroe that he didn’t know the playbook.
"Anti-intellectualism has been a constant thread winding its way through our political and cultural life, nurtured by the false notion that democracy means that 'my ignorance is just as good as your knowledge.'"
― Isaac Asimov
by burntorangehorn on Dec 25, 2011 12:41 AM CST up reply actions
Well, there you are - I think you have put an exclamation mark on ending the whole pointless argument!
Proud of your offense? Manny badger don't give a shit!
doesnt that kill your pt?
Our best offensive out-put on the season was done when DJ did not get the ball. Fact that you would bitch about the play calling in a near perfect offensive game plan leads me to believe you are either sleeping with DJ or related to him
Yea,
It was so “perfect” that we ended up injuring our only RB that can handle a decent volume of carries. So perfect that we only threw the ball 7 times and proved how one dimensional our offense was.
Monroe with 4 more carries may have been the difference in the kid right out of high school not injuring his hamstring.
Both our starting RBs
got hurt because they ran your “base-offense” (and with it two true freshman) into the dirt.
both missing the pt
fact is the offense dominated. The game-plan was fantastic. Focusing on Bergeron getting one extra carry speaks volumes about your ability to be open-minded.
really
I have never pulled a hammy through constant wear. Generally, pull muscles when they are cold
Based on your logic
Bergeron could have never pulled his hammy then because he ran the ball 100 times. They wouldn’t have been “cold”, right?
If you don’t understand how constant over use of muscles leads to pulls and general wear and tear of muscles, I don’t know what to tell you.
They over used MB and JB, plain and simple.
Generally = usually
It just happens. I thought it was stupid he was in at that time, but that has nothing to do with the post that Monroe should have had more carries in that game. Up 35-40 in the 4q it was time for Hills and anyone that doesnt see time. carries in mop up duty are not what this article is talking about.
It's not specifying
when the touches come, either. Your argument that because we are up 35-40 points so DJ doesn’t need the ball is on very thin ice, especially considering what ended up happening in our RB stable.
Who would you have given the carries to? Hills, Berryhill? WHY NOT DJ? What’s wrong with giving him the ball there? Nothing.
what?
I am at a loss.. DJ is so valuable needs to more part of the offense, but he should also play in mop up duty>> OK
so, our starter should be
“playing in mop up duty”?
DJ should get more touches… PERIOD!!! I don’t care when it happens. Didn’t say he is “so valuable”… said that he needs more touches! That is the point of the entire story by GOBR.
DJ had 18 yards and a TD in the 1st half and then never touched the ball. Similar to last year against OU, when he busted a 60 yard TD to keep us in the game with OU. His reward? 1 more carry in the entire 2nd half!!!
Again,
who cares when he gets touches? Mop up duty is just an example. It isn’t hard to comprehend.
Who here is putting DJ on a pedestal? Nobody. Just asking for a few more touches. Could’ve saved MB, could’ve saved Bergeron. Who knows.
He’s explosive with the ball, and has proven that before. Against Bama, against OU, etc.
You guys are truly the ones blowing this up. I’m just asking for a few more touches to use his skills.
it is hard to comprehend
That anyone would say that a guy has great value and it is being wasted and then argue that the coaches should put that same guy in when the game is over and risk injury. The mistake was having anyone of value carrying the ball at that time
When did I ever say
he has great value? Has he had big plays for us in the past? Yes. But I’m not touting him as a Ramonce Taylor or anything like that. Just think he could get a bit more of the football.
100 posts
to say he needs couple more carries, nobody will question your passion
you argue like my wife
You can not handle that TTU game plan flies in the face of your argument, so now we will focus on some other small fact to deflect the fact that you can not accept the truth
You nailed it. Well done.
Don’t know how Tech got thrown into this, but you never really address anybody else’s disagreements, so it actually makes sense.
chupita
complained that Monroe only got 2 carries in TTU game that is how it got in the thread. Just pting out that when the offense scores 50+ pts you look like an idiot complaining about who got touches
His point
is that the Texas offense is PERFECT when we only attempt 7 passes, and run our freshmen RB into the ground by overworking him.
As oppossed to running an offense that will allow our young QB to learn how to throw the football and muster up some confidence in that aspect of the game.
I disagree
“look like an idiot” when you overuse one of your key RB’s, and don’t work on developing, or getting involved your other key components of the team. You think 7 passes is an offensive onslaught?
And, again, why not give DJ more carries in that game? He was averaging 9 yards per carry. Why risk injury by giving a kid that is a year out of high school the ball 30 times?
That, by the way, was when we lost our last smashmouth RB and the season went downhill. Rewarding your Junior RB that has proven week after week that he is up to the task if you just hand him the ball… or just hand the ball 30 times to a RB that is only 18 years old? Who is really the idiot?
wait?
you are arguing he is so valuable he needs carries, but also that he should play in mop up duty? those 2 things are at odds with eachother
I don't care when he gets the carries
Just give him more carries and see what he can do with them. I already know that he can do well in the big games. He was our most productive runner against Bama, and OU. 10 touches is not too much to ask given the way he has performed.
LOL - Mr. Chupita, it is becoming more and more apparent that we need to fire Harsin and make you the OC!
Proud of your offense? Manny badger don't give a shit!
How bout just
give the job to Applewhite? I would be fine with that…
I don’t think I am saying anything that other people haven’t said already. There are many people that are impressed with DJ’s play making abilities. Afterall, I didn’t write the original story. I just happen to agree with it.
Well, Applewhite was on the sidelines and making the subs - Harsin was in the booth.
Proud of your offense? Manny badger don't give a shit!
Harsin was calling the plays
…is it Applewhite that is responsible for calling 7 total passes?
Once again, Applewhite was making the subs if there was ZERO pass plays called!
Proud of your offense? Manny badger don't give a shit!
53 pts
Says it all. Again 53 touches and 4 plays of 20 yds. That is not a lot of playmaking for a guy in DJ’s role. Goodwin has matched in with half the carries and averages almost 3 yds more a rush. I would bet if Goodwin was not producing more than DJ, your boy would be getting more carries
Again,
you clearly have some issues around Goodwin. Monroe can run the football from the RB position. Goodwin can not… he is only a WR reverse, sweep type of player. Tell me how many times you see DJ line up as a RB to take a handoff in this clip now, how many times have you seen Goodwin.
There are still plenty of plays available to run DJ. If 4 plays of 20 yards is not “a lot of playmaking” then what does that say about the other RB’s (barring Fozzy)?
um how good has DJ done running purely from the RB position?
against Mizzou and Baylor he was mediocre against Baylor he had one big play. against Mizzou he just couldnt get to space
In The Morning To You
What?
Baylor? He led the team in rushing yards, yards per carry, and was 2nd in All-Purpose yards. He had the perfect amount of touches in that game IMO. Monroe was the LONE good playmaker in that game.
Missouri was his worst game, but considering he only carried the ball 8 times and accounted for 3 of the 6 UT (rushing) first downs. Led the team in yards per carry, as well as all-purpose yards. I would say the suckage of Missouri was a group effort.
Monroe carried the ball 8 times and picked up 5 or more yards 1/2 the time. A few more carries and who knows what would have happened.
Both of your choices are poor, as he did very well in both of those game compared to the rest of the UT offense.
Plus,
He had the longest run for UT in both of those games (Baylor and Missouri)
Didn't we
Lose both those games and have terrible offensive performances?
Baylor
If you consider 557 yards of offense “terrible”… then sure. Whatever you say.
Pts?
Just noticing you like the use of Monroe in mizzo and Baylor, but hated the offense vs TTU.
The offense against
TT is the reason we lost 3 of our last 4 games. Running Bergeron into the ground after running Malcolm into the ground earlier in the year.
My problem with that game plan is it didn’t allow Ash to get any confidence, and it didn’t continue to utilize Monroe after he had proven effective. Ran for a 12 yard TD with 8 minutes remaining in the 1st half and never touched the ball again. Reminded me of the prior year when he ripped off 60 yards against OU and then carried the ball 1 more time.
It is defies logic
bottom line i can think of 10 other RBs id rather have in the backfield instead of DJ Monroe
Trent Richardson, LaMicheal James, Malcolm Brown, Joe Bergeron, Fozzy, Terrance Ganaway, Monte Ball, Rex Burkhead, Christine Michael, Cyrus Gray. i would trade DJ for any of them because each of them can be an every down back and with any of them we would have beaten Mizzou and probably KSU with DJ we clearly could not
In The Morning To You
Uhh,
Both Brown and Bergeron played against KSU and had 9 and 11 carries…. DJ only had 4 carries/touches total against KSU. How’s that loss on DJ. In fact, DJ didn’t touch the ball after the 11:52 mark in the 1st half.
Malcolm Brown rushed 8 times for 22 yards after DJ last touched the football… Bergeron was more respectable with 20 yards on 4 carries…
So, the score was 3-3 when DJ last touched the ball, and Malcolm and Bergeron were the backs going forward (for the most part), yet KSU beat Texas. So much for the “probably KSU” assertion.
And Fozzy wasn’t exactly “killing it” against Missouri before he was hurt. DJ should have received more carries and perhaps we could have beat Missouri this year.
That said, sure… I would rather have Richardson, James, Brown, Ganaway, Ball and Gray over Monroe. Burkhead not so much, and who wants Michael’s injury prone ass? These guys (mostly) are every down backs… I would like an every down back as well, but would want DJ getting carries as a change of pace back. I’m not saying that DJ is the greatest back in the world.
both Brown and Bergeron were nursing injuries.
my point was id rather have a healthy one of those than DJ. i prefer every down backs to guys who come in for a set selection of plays. i believe a KSU fan here pointed it out that Cody Johnson had a huge run from the Wildcat where he was dragged down from behind. this KSU fan points out that if it had been Fozzy on that play there’s no way anyone would have caught him plus Fozzy was used in the red zone a lot and in the Wildcat was proving late in the year to be almost unstoppable so yes we probably would beat KSU with just Fozzy healthy. i think DJ should get more carries against teams like Cal who struggle defending the edge against guys with great speed (which DJ has) but against strong defensive teams that have the speed to defend the edges i cant really disagree with him only getting a couple of carries.
In The Morning To You
Gotcha,
So, I guess you don’t think that OU has “strong defensive teams that have the speed to defend the edges”? Or Bama?
Last I checked, DJ was the ONLY player that could muster anything against OU the last few years and the ONLY runner on the 2009 Texas team that could do anything running the ball against Bama.
You predictive analysis, based on nothing substantial is fine. I would prefer to look at the facts which indicate that DJ has done very well running the ball against every team he has faced. And especially against the best of the best like Bama and OU
Why all the angst about Monroe?
He may be fast, but maybe the coaches are trying to save his life? He IS just a little shit – they have him at 5’9", but I bet he is closer to 5’8".
It really won’t matter because next year, when Gray arrives, Monroe won’t have a position to play.
Harsin and Applewhite may just feel he is too much of a one trick pony and wants more from a running back. Who knows?
Proud of your offense? Manny badger don't give a shit!
by Snide Aside on Dec 22, 2011 10:45 PM CST up reply actions
oh come on
facts are facts. if Fozzy takes off on that run Cody had against KSU that KSU defender doesnt catch him. he only caught Cody because Cody doesnt have break away speed. another fact is that in the 2nd half of the season when Fozzy ran the Wildcat in the red zone he was damn near impossible to stop if Fozzy had been healthy i see no reason to think that would have stopped being an effective weapon in the redzone. DJ had 1 big run against OU last year for a TD. face it if we ran DJ on that play he scored a TD on 10 times he would be stopped every time for minimal gains after that TD run. why? because DCs arent stupid they can adjust to counter DJ. with B&B and Johnathan Gray in the backfield next year you really just need to accept that DJ probably wont get more carries than he’s getting now. hell id rather have Johnathan Gray right now than DJ Monroe.
In The Morning To You
"facts are facts"
Yet you have none?
I would estimate that “IF” DJ takes off on that run Cody had against KSU that KSU defender doesn’t catch him either.
The reality is, Fozzy has been injury plagued his ENTIRE career. That is a fact, not an opinion.
And, again, DJ has been a straight thorn in the side of OU. This year he averaged over 10 yards a play against OU, and had a 90 yard TD called back after a call that had not impact on the run. He still average more yards per carry this year against OU than any other player on the UT roster.
“1 big run against OU” my butt. He just had one against Baylor. He was our offense against BYU and accounted for 39 yards of our 1st TD. The 26 yard catch and run was fantastic until GG threw the pick to kill the drive.
And I guess the Baylor DC is just plain “stupid”. Players make plays! Not coaches
his yards per carry is so high because he always has so few carries!
Face it he’s not the back we need in this offense if he gets injured no one is gonna say “dammit DJ is hurt we are screwed” there’s a reason why people thought the sky was falling when B&B were hurt because they were much more important than DJ to the offense the offense can function without DJ just fine. There are several players who can do what he does. As for Fozzy being injurt prone what the hell does that have to do with him being able to turn that run by Cody into a TD if he isn’t hurt? I guarantee if DJ had had as many carries as Fozzy over his career he’d have an injury problem too. These sir are facts
B&B= crucial players in our ground attack that are irreplaceable
DJ Monroe= a nice little addition but one that isn’t critical to the offenses success
In The Morning To You
by horns1025 on Dec 23, 2011 9:03 AM CST via mobile up reply actions
That is BS
Fozzy has been around for 4 years and has been injured every single year. And he has had very little attempts most of those years. Some people are just injury prone.
Your entire posts are pure speculation based off of your opinion. Nothing that you have backed up with stats or anything that is actually reality.
You are welcome to your opinion, and I respect it. Just don’t try and tell me that they are “facts”.
The point of the originial story is to say that DJ has proved that he is worthy of additional touches due to the stats that we can actually see and the plays that he has actually made.
Playmakers make plays. Your opinion of what value DJ brings to the table is neither here nor there. The fact is, he has PROVEN (with his play) that he can be successful in this offense.
His stats will be pointed to as my “facts”.
He has proven in a limited capacity that he can have limited succes
"Anti-intellectualism has been a constant thread winding its way through our political and cultural life, nurtured by the false notion that democracy means that 'my ignorance is just as good as your knowledge.'"
― Isaac Asimov
by burntorangehorn on Dec 23, 2011 2:24 PM CST up reply actions
I agree with yuou, however, that our RB's got too many carries in that Tech game.
The injuries are the exclamation points!
I think Harsin and Applewhiteare human and just got so caught up with the power and just the OFFENSE we were showing that they hated to bring him out. God, know we had struggled previously.
Proud of your offense? Manny badger don't give a shit!
Threads like this
are the reason why Billy Beane was able to fleece people in moneyball.
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