Why Texas Won't and Shouldn't Pursue JUCO/Graduate Quarterbacks
by Wescott Eberts (GoBR) on Dec 5, 2011 12:45 PM CST
in Texas Longhorns Football
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It seems that the Longhorn interwebs are abuzz these days with speculation about whether the Longhorns will pursue a junior-college or graduate transfer to compete for the quarterback job in 2012.
There are some players currently on the market -- former Texas prep star Ryan Mossakowski, who still has two years of eligibility remaining after spending last season at Northwest Mississippi Community College and the previous two years at Kentucky, former Oregon State starter Ryan Katz, and former Notre Dame starter Dayne Crist, with the latter two eligible to play immediately, assuming that Texas has a graduate program in which they could enroll that their previous schools didn't offer.
Mossakowski is the only one of the three who has actual ties to the state -- he was born in Austin and played his high school ball at Frisco Centennial. A pure pocket passer with good size and a strong arm, Mossakowski was a four-star prospect by Rivals, but a shoulder injury sustained his senior year slowed his development in college. He spent two seasons at Kentucky, leaving last spring after it became apparent that he would't win the starting job.
A junior, Katz was the starting quarterback for Oregon State in 2010, completing 60% of his passes and throwing for 17 touchdowns, though he did also throw 11 interceptions and was sacked 33 times. He lost his starting job after one half of action in the opener and decided to seek his transfer after he lost virtually all practice reps to another quarterback. A broken wrist sustained in the final 2010 contest caused him to miss the spring. The major downside to Katz is that he doesn't have prototypical size for the position, which may contribute to his inability to effectively throw the ball downfield, the major reasons he was considered a borderline FCS recruiting coming out of high school.
The most impressive athlete of the three, former Notre Dame quarterback Dayne Crist recently asked for and was granted his release from the Irish program. Crist lost his starting job during the season to Tommy Rees after battling back from injuries to both knees that cut sort his 2009 and 2010 seasons. A top-25 prospect coming out of high school by ESPNU, Crist battles some issues throwing interceptions during his career at Notre Dame, possibly a result of inconsistent release points and generally poor mechanics overall. However, Crist does have an exceptionally strong arm attached to his 6-5 frame.
So, which one of these players will the Longhorns pursue, if any of them? Actually, there currently aren't any indications that the Longhorns will pursue a short-term fix for the quarterback problems with Connor Brewer enrolling in the spring and Jalen Overstreet arriving in the summer. Given the lack of any rumblings coming from the problem about pursuing these options creates some serious doubt about whether Texas is even considering doing so.
The thought here is that Texas is making the right decision by deciding that the long-term future of the quarterback position is more important than the potential to find a fix for next season. Several compelling reasons underlie this position:
- Despite the need to relieve some pressure on Mack Brown with a greater level of success on the field, this team is not in win-now mode. With underclassmen at virtually every position on both sides of the ball, the timetable to compete for a national championship looks much more like 2013 or 2014 than next season.
- Each of these quarterbacks represents damaged goods. Unlike Russell Wilson, each of these players are on the open market right now because they lost quarterback competitions at other schools. As a result, there's no guarantee that any of them would be better than David Ash, Case McCoy, or Connor Brewer next season. Katz in particular seems like he's barely more physically talented than McCoy.
- Further splitting the reps would only further hurt the developments of Ash, McCoy, and Brewer. Consider where both Ash and McCoy would be now if one or both had received the reps that went to Garrett Gilbert and Connor Wood during the spring, summer, and fall. In all likelihood, if the Longhorns are going to have success in 2013, it will be because one of the quarterbacks either on campus or currently committed makes a serious leap to becoming at least a consistent contributor. Bringing in a short-term solution for 2012 only decreases the likelihood of that happening.
To summarize, the Longhorns are much better served by attempting to develop the quarterbacks they have, rather than trying to pursue a quarterback who might only be on campus for one or two seasons. The upside is relatively limited, especially for the graduate transfers, because it appears that the next window for Texas to seriously compete for a national championship won't be until 2013 or 2014.
As poorly as both Case McCoy and David Ash played at times, mortgaging their futures on the risk that a transfer could make a difference in a year or two may in fact mortgage the future of the quarterback position at Texas. And that would cause many more problems than it would solve, even in the best-case scenario.
The unfortunate truth is that there are no easy answers to the position right now. No saviors, even Connor Brewer. The sooner that Texas fans accept that unfortunate reality, the easier that reality will be to deal with.
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I realize Oversteets film is against high school kids but he sure does look good!
by BeeCaveHornFan on Dec 5, 2011 1:01 PM CST via mobile up reply actions
Look at Mykkelle Thomson's films from last year
He could run the spread or the wildcat. He can throw. He has 4.4 speed. He gained much more yardage than either Brown or Bergeron rushing in HS. He is shifty. He threw for a thousand yards. Why not at least give him some snaps?
by MarkInAustin on Dec 5, 2011 1:50 PM CST up reply actions 1 recs
I've said this time and again and Thompson
Looks like Diaz has said you can have him over my dead body. I don’t get it either.
Proud of your offense? Manny badger don't give a shit!
Understandable
that Diaz wants to hang onto Mykk. Diaz has to replace at least two safeties and probably three so he has a very strong need for Mykk.
Dude! I've been saying the same thing!
But Mack Brown said Duane Akina was the one pushing for him to play defense. I wouldn’t mind seeing him and Onyebule getting a shot at QB this Spring. It’s worth a try. Give John Harris a shot back there as well.
If Kenny Vaccaro stays
then I can see the argument for moving Thompson to offense in that role. If Vaccaro leaves, Thompson is the top candidate to replace him, so he may be needed too much on the defensive side of the ball to move him to offense. Not sure that you can give him Wildcat reps and still be able to give him enough time at safety to make the necessary improvements there. As much as I would like to see him on offense, I think he may be too valuable to the future of the safety position to move.
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by Wescott Eberts (GoBR) on Dec 5, 2011 1:57 PM CST up reply actions
Moving Thompson would be a win-now move that would hurt the QB development further out
IMO it’s a band aid until we find a real QB. I saw him play in HS and have seen his highlights. Great athlete, yes. Conference winning caliber QB, no. It would take valuable QB reps away from the other QB’s, and S reps away from Thompson.
Yeah
Thompson is not even the best passing run-first QB on the roster. That would be Onyay.
Follow me on Twitter @GoHornsGo90
What are you basing this on?
High school stats and production are much greater towards Thompson. Led his team to the state semi’s last year as one man offense.
"If crime was justified by need it would be the occupation of the masses."- Chief Gillespie
Does this Mykkelle kid have the same frame and stature as V. Young?
that guy was pretty good.
oh hail the Purple and White
Totally disagree
I'd kill for a Nobel Peace Prize
by MeatchickenHorn on Dec 5, 2011 12:57 PM CST reply actions
Aaron Rodgers was JUCO transfer....
…….just sayin’
With the article
I'd kill for a Nobel Peace Prize
by MeatchickenHorn on Dec 5, 2011 12:59 PM CST reply actions
Please explain...
Everything in the article? I disagree with the thought that we shouldn’t try to win now but unless there are other transfer QBs out there that are better I agree with the idea of going with what we’ve got. Its not like we’re deciding against signing Cam Newton…we’re talking D Crist. Yuck.
by BeeCaveHornFan on Dec 5, 2011 1:05 PM CST via mobile up reply actions
In fairness, Newton didn't look all that good at Florida
Brantley had passed him on the depth chart before he was kicked off the team.
"Anti-intellectualism has been a constant thread winding its way through our political and cultural life, nurtured by the false notion that democracy means that 'my ignorance is just as good as your knowledge.'"
― Isaac Asimov
by burntorangehorn on Dec 5, 2011 1:08 PM CST up reply actions
Respectfully disagree
I was in Florida & caught the Florida spring game when Newton was a freshman, Tebow the starter. This was during FU & Meyer’s salad days. Newton was clearly the better passer, runner & qb. Not saying he could have beaten out St Tim, just that he had greater skills. Thereafter Newton had technical trouble with a hot computer.
I told all my friends FU had a better qb behind Tebow. In Florida this is blasphemy.
Plus Newton lit it up at Blinn.
Enough to ask for cash for his post juco services.
by BeeCaveHornFan on Dec 5, 2011 1:56 PM CST via mobile up reply actions
Seriously, Newton was passed on the depth chart by Brantley
He wasn’t very highly regarded while on the team there.
"Anti-intellectualism has been a constant thread winding its way through our political and cultural life, nurtured by the false notion that democracy means that 'my ignorance is just as good as your knowledge.'"
― Isaac Asimov
by burntorangehorn on Dec 5, 2011 2:14 PM CST up reply actions
His point is he was passed
Because of some questionable judgement, not play…
Follow me on Twitter @GoHornsGo90
Don't forget Jake Heaps, who will be leaving BYU
Although apparently he might be headed to Wazzu to play for the pirate.
"Anti-intellectualism has been a constant thread winding its way through our political and cultural life, nurtured by the false notion that democracy means that 'my ignorance is just as good as your knowledge.'"
― Isaac Asimov
I dont see him going to Wazzu
QB is the one position they actually have covered so he wont play.
by SDG on Dec 5, 2011 1:54 PM CST up reply actions
Possible, but the guy probably has more talent than Lobbestael and the others
And of course he’d be on relatively even footing due to the new scheme that Mike Leach will install.
"Anti-intellectualism has been a constant thread winding its way through our political and cultural life, nurtured by the false notion that democracy means that 'my ignorance is just as good as your knowledge.'"
― Isaac Asimov
by burntorangehorn on Dec 5, 2011 2:39 PM CST up reply actions
Lobb's is a Senior
I read somewhere that he was transferring for playing time. Lobbs is a senior and he’s third string at that. We have Jeff Tuel and Connor Holliday as 1 and 2. These guys are just as good, if not better, than anything BYU has. I’d welcome the guy, but he’d need to be transferring for more than pt because he may be disappointed if he doesn’t.
by SDG on Dec 5, 2011 4:46 PM CST up reply actions
Are you familiar with Jake Heaps?
"Anti-intellectualism has been a constant thread winding its way through our political and cultural life, nurtured by the false notion that democracy means that 'my ignorance is just as good as your knowledge.'"
― Isaac Asimov
by burntorangehorn on Dec 6, 2011 8:18 AM CST up reply actions
What about this guy??
Here’s an intriguing possibility at QB. Texas is recruiting three linemen from East Mississippi CC. They just won the national JUCO title. In that game the EMCC QB, Bo Wallace, threw 7 TD passes, capping a year when he broke the all-time JUCO records for TD passes (52), total offense (4324) and passing yards (4118). He’s from Tennessee 6’4" 200, and is a former RS at Ark. State. The bad news is that he is planning on leaving JUCO this year with 3 years of eligibility left. I’d sure give him a shot, but that 3 years might be a deterrent. However, as I said, there’s been enough of anointing a starter before he gets to Texas, and then recruiting a bunch of backups for him. Bring in the best, and let Darwin sort it out. Supposedly, Texas has inquired about him.
I don't see Wallace
on the list of the top eight JUCO quarterbacks.
Follow me on Twitter: @GhostofBigRoy
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by Wescott Eberts (GoBR) on Dec 5, 2011 1:13 PM CST up reply actions
Reminds me of Seneca Wallace
There was a great JuCo transfer.
Before you criticize someone, walk a mile in their shoes. If they get mad, you're a mile away AND you have their shoes.
TCB Orange Dino is absoutely right!
Bring in the best and let them compete. Make them work and earn a position. Competitiveness is key to development. Please no more of this “get one guy and don’t get anybody esle to compete, so we don’t offend them.”
Also, if we bring in a better QB, maybe we could get McCoy to transfer out and leave the snaps for new QB, Ash and Brewer. I think that Ash and Brewer could benefit from sitting for a year and also to see how a more experienced QB goes about getting ready for games….
by 4horns on Dec 5, 2011 1:29 PM CST up reply actions 1 recs
No
You can’t just bring people in for the ask of competition. There are a limited number of spots. Take extra QB and pass on the DL that goes to TCU. Secondly, you are setting up for disaster. Bring in 3 or 4 QBs and you will see the same mass transfer issue in 1-2 yrs. The pt of the post is that there are no short-cuts to building a team. You all have a positive bias on JUCO QBs. It is easy to say go get the next Cam in JUCO. The truth is almost all of these guys are not Cam, most come and hold the clipboard. For every JUCo success there are at least as many QBs that grow into a solid QB. It is a painful, but where we are
In your eyes if its broken, then lets not fix it bc we will have too many QB's
Competition will solve it because the weak and incompetent will transfer or leave because they will never see the field.
Case can be shown the door. I am on the fence with Ash because he has shown absolutely no accuracy….its 50/50 that the ball gets to where it needs to be.
Do you really want to keep what we have?
The point of the post is to try build on what we have and to not even consider what the possibilities that are out there. Huge mistake.
I think it is wise to consider all avenues at this point. I never said that there was a “Cam” out there, but we need to explore all options and competition is absolutely what we need.
Damn you codaxx
You just reminded me of Devonte Fields again. I was just starting to get past that…
Follow me on Twitter @GoHornsGo90
Sorry dude
I can’t advocate just standing pat, ASSUMING the bowl game is par for course on the season. I have to see some kind of development over this month. If (hopefully/doubtfully) Ash goes out and shows confidence while throwing for 200 yards a couple of TDs and only one pick, I’ll give some thought to rolling with what will basically amount to two QBs next year (Brewer should be RS, I guess Overstreet can play wildcat, but I don’t think he’s light years ahead of Ash as a runner).
Katz’s highlights show a guy who can throw a much better deep ball than Case, BTW.
Follow me on Twitter @GoHornsGo90
by GoHornsGo90 on Dec 5, 2011 1:24 PM CST reply actions 1 recs
I don't get the infatuation with Ash as a runner,
unless and until he gets better as a passer. Right now, it’s just like the first few games this season, when he only ran the ball. When he’s in now, they know he’s gonna run, so he gets stuffed.
See ya later, alligator and sheep-mater.
by Paleface Horn on Dec 5, 2011 5:24 PM CST up reply actions
A bigger question...
How did a program like UT get into this situation? Two years without even a decent QB and now resigning ourselves to what sounds like a third year. Yeah, I know GG was highly rated nationally, but someone should have looked closer at intangibles like confidence and leadership. McCoy was signed because he was a “legacy.” But who missed so badely on Ash and Connor Wood? We seldom recruit out of state unless the guy is a “can’t miss,” and I thought Brewer was Harsin’s hand-picked man. Now we are being told well, he is not the “savior,” he has lmitations, and can’t be expcted to contribute next year. Overstreet is supposed to be behind Brewer. One problem with GG was he didn’t seem to improve as last year progressed. Neither have McCoy or Ash. We can augue which is the greater liability, but I don’t think alot of us have much faith either will become great or even good by next year. We blamed GD for GG’s lack of development last year. Who do we blame for botht the recruiting, and the lack of development of McCoy and Ash? Again, how did we get to the position of having to wait 3 or 4 years to be “competitive” again?
"Only angry people win football games." --DKR
No QB
Should be expected to contribute as a true frosh. That is not a slight against Brewer.
Follow me on Twitter @GoHornsGo90
Perhaps
I don’t watch anything but UT football, so I can’t quote names and teams, but I believe there have been freshmen QB’s in some programs who have come in and done as adequate job, better than McCoy and Ash. Nevertheless, that doesn’t address my main question, which is how did a great program like UT get itself into a position that for what looks like is going to be at least 3 straight years (if not more) we don’t have an adequate QB. Furthermore, if it takes a JUCO or graduate transfer to fix the problem temporarily, then what’s wrong with that. So he takes reps from McCoy and Ash. How many really think that will matter. Did either get better as the season progressed?
"Only angry people win football games." --DKR
GG
Is your answer. He was a 5 star recruit across the board. We can’t really blame the staff for missing on him. He didn’t pan out. Other major QB recruits were not going to come with the second overall rated passer in the nation (behind M. Barkley) committed to UT. As in the NFL when you miss on a QB it can set you back a few years and that’s what we are experiencing now.
"Knowledge is knowing that a tomato is a fruit, wisdom is knowing not to put it in a fruit salad" - Unknown
Reread Article
Further splitting the reps would only further hurt the developments of Ash, McCoy, and Brewer. Consider where both Ash and McCoy would be now if one or both had received the reps that went to Garrett Gilbert and Connor Wood during the spring, summer, and fall. In all likelihood, if the Longhorns are going to have success in 2013, it will be because one of the quarterbacks either on campus or currently committed makes a serious leap to becoming at least a consistent contributor. Bringing in a short-term solution for 2012 only decreases the likelihood of that happening.
Also, add our mission to implement a power running game and rehab our receivers, and you’ll find the lack of passing game reps to be an issue. Also, keep in mind no Goodwin or Shipley in the Spring. It’s for all these reasons why Harsin had to pulling for Gilbert to see the light and win the starting job.
I don't think there is a simple answer to your original question
Player analysis is clearly an inexact science or based upon resources allocated all NFL draft picks would succeed in the order they were drafted. Ryan Leaf would be being fitted for Canton & Tom Brady would be selling insurance. Apparently everyone in college football was wrong about Gilbert but ultimately Mack Brown is paid $100,000 a week for this not to happen.
As far as Brewer I’m no more sold on him than any other good high school qb. I’ve watched him in two games & my observation are 1) He’s playing against the equivalent of Texas 3A competition 2) He has a receiver who is a top 50 or 75 national prospect who gets 5 yards away from the closest coverage 3) His receivers frequently have to make significant adjustments to his throws but are able to do so because of the talent differences. This is not a condemnation of Brewer just my obsevations.
At Texas we’ve enjoyed remarkable QB play especially with Vince & Colt. It’s unrealistic to expect this kind of accuracy on a regular basis. Vince led the nation in QB rating & Colt had either the highest or second highest completion per centage of all time.
An important question to me is why Texas hasn’t been able to win championships without extraordinary qb play. OU wins championships with door to door salemen playing qb. One of them won a Heisman. I am aware we are attempting to rebuild the program so we won’t be so qb dependant but until he proves otherwise I believe Mack needs a difference maker at the qb position, not a caretaker.
Based upon high school film has the ability to throw the ball very well. He needs seasoning.
by ole tnhorn on Dec 5, 2011 2:16 PM CST up reply actions 1 recs
"ASH"
Based upon high school film has the ability to throw the ball very well. He needs seasoning.
Based upon high school film ASH has the ability to throw the ball vey well
Why the hell don't we recruit a combo?
Go after Brewer’s current receiver. The chemistry should count for something.
See ya later, alligator and sheep-mater.
by Paleface Horn on Dec 5, 2011 5:26 PM CST up reply actions
This is sacrilege
But Vince could not hit the side of a barn his first yr. It took him until is JR yr to be a solid passer. Granted his legs mad up for this early passing deficiencies
Ash and woods?
Woods never took a snap,he transferred. We have no idea if he was a miss. Ash is a true freshmen with 3 ugly games as a starter. One in a 40 mph wind. way to early to hit the eject button
You don't think they looked at intangibles and leadership with Gilbert?
The guy showed a lot of each for LT, didn’t he?
"Anti-intellectualism has been a constant thread winding its way through our political and cultural life, nurtured by the false notion that democracy means that 'my ignorance is just as good as your knowledge.'"
― Isaac Asimov
by burntorangehorn on Dec 5, 2011 1:36 PM CST up reply actions
I see your point
However, the prevailing opinion I thought was that GG has great physical abilities, but was lacking certain intangibles, as I mentioned. If it wasn’t those intangibles GG lacked, where do you think he went wrong? Perhaps he was so good physically, he was never pressured to the extent that lack of confidence or leadership surfaced. Or perhaps it is too hard to assess toshoe things.
"Only angry people win football games." --DKR
Make that "...he was never pressured in HS..."
and “hard to assess those things.” (Trying to multi-task and failing)
"Only angry people win football games." --DKR
It's absolutely true that it's hard to assess, as scouting recruits is neither an exact science nor refined art
Thing is, GG may have had it all. Sometimes perfectly good seed is sowed where it can’t grow. Not that I think GD was anywhere near as bad as people on here like to say, but I think a combination of an awful offensive line, ineffective RBs, uninspired WRs, shell-shock, inappropriate levels of pressure or too much asked of GG, and perhaps unsuitability of GG in GD’s scheme, but it just wasn’t working. I don’t think it was really any lack of tools, tangible or intangible, on GG’s part.
"Anti-intellectualism has been a constant thread winding its way through our political and cultural life, nurtured by the false notion that democracy means that 'my ignorance is just as good as your knowledge.'"
― Isaac Asimov
by burntorangehorn on Dec 5, 2011 2:23 PM CST up reply actions
Maybe inability to read defense
I agree that Gilbert had a lot of physical ability and would not be surprised if he ends up doing well. It seemed like his main problem was throwing to the wrong guy, especially passing up the easy, safe target to go farther downfield to the higher risk/higher reward target. Another year or two of coaching may make a big difference. It was really disappointing to see Gilbert transfer, I had high hopes that Harsin would straighten him out.
by Kafka on Dec 5, 2011 2:29 PM CST up reply actions 1 recs
Some of GG's problem
Is that he spent the entire offseason learning Davis’ power running game only for UT to quickly abandon it and switch to a bastardized spread. That sort of change to the system is going to screw with one’s reads.
Also, I know everyone blamed Gilbert for “throwing too hard” or whatever excuse was given for the receivers dropping everything. I think this season has shown that, even with Case McCoy throwing change-ups, the receivers can’t catch. As much as it pains me to say it, had he not been injured, I think Gilbert would be the best QB on campus right now.
undefeated in Sun Belt play
That's why he was Week 1 QB1.
Hook 'em! @michaelpelech10 on Twitter
by The Audit Horn on Dec 5, 2011 2:41 PM CST via mobile up reply actions
And he was benched for throwing two interceptions against a suspect BYU defense.
With hindsight and considering how well his replacements did, that’s hardly a deal-breaker.
undefeated in Sun Belt play
He wasn't benched for throwing two interceptions against BYU
He was benched for a history of poor decisions, bad reads, and awful throws. The picks against BYU were just the final straw in a laundry list of issues.
One conference to rule them all. One conference to bore them.
One conference to annoy them all, and have ESPN whore them.
That's completely true, but, in hindsight, was McAsh really an improvement?
I’m not saying Gilbert was good; I just think he wasn’t any worse than the alternatives.
undefeated in Sun Belt play
Was it an improvment
Is something that can be argued over and over, but the reality is that after last year and his awful start, it was a change that had to be made at the time. Even if productivity was a complete wash, it backed the wolves off and allowed the team to move forward without having to look over its shoulder regarding the quarterback situation.
One conference to rule them all. One conference to bore them.
One conference to annoy them all, and have ESPN whore them.
Exactly
No idea how serious, if serious at all, that shoulder injury was. Can’t blame him for leaving, but it may have been premature cutting him loose. Who knows.
Hook 'em! @michaelpelech10 on Twitter
by The Audit Horn on Dec 5, 2011 2:49 PM CST via mobile up reply actions
agree - the recruiting wheels are off
or the development wheels are which would be worse. If that is the case we wont get anyone even JUCOs who have to be better than where we are now and I strongly disagree with GOBR on this one. We need a real QB now.
by sam0807 on Dec 5, 2011 2:16 PM CST up reply actions 1 recs
And where do you plan on finding a real QB?
Finding a real QB sounds great and all, but where do you intend to find this mythical silver bullet?
Hook 'em! @michaelpelech10 on Twitter
by The Audit Horn on Dec 5, 2011 2:52 PM CST via mobile up reply actions
Middle Earth
One conference to rule them all. One conference to bore them.
One conference to annoy them all, and have ESPN whore them.
Yep
Russell Wilson’s not walking through that door… not this off-season, anyway.
I have it on good authority that if you type "Google" into Google, you can break the Internet. So please, no one try it, even for a joke. It's not a laughing matter. You can break the Internet.
The IT Crowd
by beast in bama on Dec 5, 2011 4:51 PM CST up reply actions
I'd have offered a small goat sacrifice to Mack
If Russell Wilson was here this year. I knew he’d be a huge impact player for Wisconsin, and he even surpassed my expectations. If Wilson was available this year, I’d be all for going all in on him. He would have been as close to a guarantee as you could get.
Hook 'em! @michaelpelech10 on Twitter
by The Audit Horn on Dec 5, 2011 8:24 PM CST via mobile up reply actions
A quarterback, a quarterback, my kingdom for a quarterback
Texas needs better QB play to be successful. Texas did not receive it from the current QBs on the roster. I would like for Brewer to have a year to redshirt to allow him to mature physically amd mentally. I think it would be a mistake not to have another option. Let the best QB win. Even if the transfer didn’t start it would be nice to have another skill set for certain situations
Major can still pass for 19
What do you say?
"Anti-intellectualism has been a constant thread winding its way through our political and cultural life, nurtured by the false notion that democracy means that 'my ignorance is just as good as your knowledge.'"
― Isaac Asimov
by burntorangehorn on Dec 5, 2011 1:34 PM CST reply actions 2 recs
Great idea
I’d imagine Colt could too. Slip him his brother’s uniform and say “Case” made great strides during the spring and summer.
"Only angry people win football games." --DKR
We have a QB - David Ash
Case should no longer be under consideration as a starter. I’m not going to get into an argument about the merits of each – that has been discussed ad nauseum.
I’ve said this on another blog – but I happen to believe it’s true.
We are set up to make a run at the natty NEXT YEAR! I caveat this assertion with it can only happen if we have DGB on campus.
Ash is still a baby and can be trained to be a servicable QB for next year. DGB will bookend J. Gray and complete the set needed for the run.
We are setting up to win a nat’l title ala Alabama (who had a pedestrian QB. as well):
Outstanding Receivers – DGB, Shipley, Jones
Outstanding RB’s – Gray, Brown, Bergeron
QB’s – Ash (not being a liablility, Brewer (backup), McCoy (probably transfers)
Current OL – With the exception of Snow graduating
Currenty nasty defense – with talented plugins to replace departures and Gideon gone
One more years experience for the rookie coaches and their systems
Manny Diaz
Harsin ( Jury is still out on him, however)
Mack – not calling plays and letting his coaches coach
Weaker Big 12
Dynamite recruiting class
Proud of your offense? Manny badger don't give a shit!
next year natty? Bartender, I'll have what he's having.
Case had his shot, and for a half he looked badass. But we also saw his limitations, he can’t get the ball deep and is just too slow making decisions in the pocket. I wouldn’t even call his throwing motion a sidearm, and it gets worse when he isn’t stepping into his throws.
-Can Ash’s confidence be saved? He ran hard against Baylor AND he put the ball on Goodwin’s numbers in the end zone. The guy just can’t get any help when he’s on.
Receivers-Shipley, Goodwin, and Davis will be fine.(not expecting Jones to do anything and DGB isn’t here yet buddy.)
RB-Beast mode all year.
OL-will be better with another year in the weight room
Defense-reloading losing Gideon and Scott. Vacarro is a big hitter, but looks lost in coverage at times. Corners are strong, LB’s don’t get me excited, the DL will be fine.
Jury’s out on Harsin? Really? Mack doesn’t seem to think so and when those running backs were piling up yards, you probably weren’t complaining. I like this type of football, Texas is the only team in the Big 12 right now doing it. I think Ash can run this offense and with another year experience he should be able to take over.
Weaker Big 12? Maybe if Griffin leaves? I guess I’m trying to see where you’re coming from. TCU is better than A&M, ISU is getting better, KState will be better, Oklahoma will reload, Ok. St should be back where they belong, you never know w/Tech, Kansas sucks, WV will be as good or better than Mizzou.
Dynamite recruiting class? How many years now and what to show for it?
by TheRealDirtyP1 on Dec 5, 2011 2:11 PM CST up reply actions
Whatever I am having - the glass is half full!
Bartender, I’ll have what he’s having.
Every contention I made could have a counter argument. I happen to believe I am right and you are wrong – that’s all! :-)
Proud of your offense? Manny badger don't give a shit!
I'll take McCoy over Ash any day of the week
I don’t think Ash really ever looked good. The wheels fell off late in the first half the other day, but at least the wheels were turning at some point, which is more than could be said of the offense with Ash against any decent team UT played this year.
"Anti-intellectualism has been a constant thread winding its way through our political and cultural life, nurtured by the false notion that democracy means that 'my ignorance is just as good as your knowledge.'"
― Isaac Asimov
by burntorangehorn on Dec 5, 2011 2:24 PM CST up reply actions
A team that's scoring at will and can pin its ears back against the pass is going to cause trouble
"Anti-intellectualism has been a constant thread winding its way through our political and cultural life, nurtured by the false notion that democracy means that 'my ignorance is just as good as your knowledge.'"
― Isaac Asimov
by burntorangehorn on Dec 5, 2011 2:40 PM CST up reply actions
Funny
I was waiting for what the defense of Case following the game would be. It’s just that he had one good half and one bad half.
Ask anyone that had watches Baylor’s defense all year long. We should have lit their world on fire the entire game. The second half was regression to the mean. They really are the worst secondary we’ve seen all year, and the fact that we had 3 points and 3 INTs in the second is a joke.
Hook 'em! @michaelpelech10 on Twitter
by The Audit Horn on Dec 5, 2011 2:58 PM CST via mobile up reply actions
Again, it was significantly better than Ash's performances
And really, it’s just ridiculous that we’re going around and around with arguments that are not about which guy is better, with focus on positive qualities, but on which guy is worse. But that’s where we are, and Ash right now is worse. Case had a pretty good near-half. Not sure what all went wrong, but it all did go wrong. One thing is for sure: Harsin seemed to forget about the run in the middle of the game.
"Anti-intellectualism has been a constant thread winding its way through our political and cultural life, nurtured by the false notion that democracy means that 'my ignorance is just as good as your knowledge.'"
― Isaac Asimov
by burntorangehorn on Dec 6, 2011 8:30 AM CST up reply actions
All bets are off
If we lose our top 3 RB’s again.
"Only angry people win football games." --DKR
I think he may have cost Greg Davis his job
I’m not saying GD was the best but he didn’t forget how to coach overnight. His resume is rather strong IMO (VY, Case).
"Knowledge is knowing that a tomato is a fruit, wisdom is knowing not to put it in a fruit salad" - Unknown
by PineypointG on Dec 5, 2011 2:10 PM CST up reply actions 1 recs
VY helped Davis keep his job
and Colt worked through it as well. He became master of the 5 yard slants, ins, curls, and outs. How many times were people calling for Davis’ job before that? There are lots of adjectives we could throw out and if we did an archive search find them fairly quickly. I was hard on GG, but dude had NO running game last year. Cody started at RB, come on. If Cody was still starting, what would our record be? Be honest. It would be another 5-7 year.
by TheRealDirtyP1 on Dec 5, 2011 2:14 PM CST up reply actions
This is commonly repeated, but it just doesn't make sense
QBs don’t coach themselves. There’s no doubt that many more talented QBs than Colt, and arguably some more talented than VY, in college football. But Texas had most of its most successful offensive seasons in school history with Davis as OC. If Colt could make GD look good, why couldn’t a more talented QB like Matt Stafford help Richt and his OC set all kinds of records?
"Anti-intellectualism has been a constant thread winding its way through our political and cultural life, nurtured by the false notion that democracy means that 'my ignorance is just as good as your knowledge.'"
― Isaac Asimov
by burntorangehorn on Dec 5, 2011 2:18 PM CST up reply actions 1 recs
Disagree (I think)
I absolutely agree that VY helped GD keep his job. One of the reason’s we won the national championship with Vince was because he didn’t follow the GD’s offense on a regular basis.
I don’t think Colt ever made GD look good. We didn’t have great offenses because of GD. We had great offenses in spite of him.
Again, that's commonly repeated, but it makes no sense
If mega-talented QBs, or even marginally talented ones like Colt, can make offenses great in spite of their OCs, then why weren’t and aren’t there lots of teams with much better offenses than UT’s those years? Superior talent to Colt’s or VY’s, plus an OC who isn’t, as some people called GD, “the worst coordinator in the country,” should yield far superior results.
"Anti-intellectualism has been a constant thread winding its way through our political and cultural life, nurtured by the false notion that democracy means that 'my ignorance is just as good as your knowledge.'"
― Isaac Asimov
by burntorangehorn on Dec 6, 2011 8:21 AM CST up reply actions
Colt and VY
I can’t tell you the amount of times they scrambled because their play (GD’s play) broke down. That’s what made them so dangerous. It wasn’t GD’s ingenuity, it was the fact that VY and Colt were master improvisers.
by 40A on Dec 5, 2011 5:37 PM CST up reply actions 1 recs
Yes
Didn’t mean to flag this. Meant to rec it.
VY with his legs and Colt with his arms and legs could make something out of nothing.
In GD's "system" the QB had to improvise......
and VY and Colt (particularly throwing to Shipley) were masterful at it. Heard a former UT offensive player under Mack say that Gilbert’s biggest problem was that he was trying to run the plays as they were designed (unlike VY and Colt).
Excuses Excuses
That’s all I ever hear with GG. Is it not a possibility that he just wasn’t very good? Does a lack of running game make you throw sliders into the ground? Does a bad OC make you throw into triple coverage while locking onto to one receiver the entire play? GG just wasn’t good and GD was the scapegoat.
"Knowledge is knowing that a tomato is a fruit, wisdom is knowing not to put it in a fruit salad" - Unknown
The difference
Is GG is a pocket QB. That means he needs adequate blocking to succeed. VY and Colt could over come that with their legs. Pocket QBs are much more dependent on the parts around them.
by codaxx on Dec 5, 2011 6:46 PM CST up reply actions 1 recs
Conference could be wide open next year
Jones, RG3, and Weeden could all be gone next year. We have a weak OOC schedule and could possibly go undefeated with a strong defense and a competent QB and serviceable offense. If it’s a QB out there that will bridge the gap between now and 2013, I say go for it. We absolutely have to redshirt Brewer, no doubt about it. There is a very strong chance that neither Case nor Ash is the QB of the future. I don’t want to sit through another year of horrible QB play leading to a 7 or 8 win season.
"Knowledge is knowing that a tomato is a fruit, wisdom is knowing not to put it in a fruit salad" - Unknown
Weeden is a senior, Jones will stay and the jury's out on RGIII
RGIII seems different. He chose Baylor over bigger and better schools. I think if the Horns would have lost in ‘05, VY would have come back for his senior year. Just think of this year for RGIII like VY’s soph. year.
My money’s on him coming back.
by TheRealDirtyP1 on Dec 5, 2011 2:20 PM CST up reply actions
He chose Baylor over UH, where he originally committed
He’s been at Baylor for 4 years. He had a devastating, season ending injury in one of them. He took a dirty shot to the head that made him miss the second half against Tech. I think he realizes the opportunity that could be lost if he stays another year, and declares for the draft this year.
Was Griffin actually granted a medical redshirt for 2009?
He did play in three games that season, but I haven’t heard official word on whether he was granted the medical redshirt. If not, he’ll have to petition for a sixth season of eligibility, which of course will factor into his decision.
"Anti-intellectualism has been a constant thread winding its way through our political and cultural life, nurtured by the false notion that democracy means that 'my ignorance is just as good as your knowledge.'"
― Isaac Asimov
by burntorangehorn on Dec 5, 2011 2:28 PM CST up reply actions
Right, I just looked it up, and it appears to jibe with what you're saying
Good to know.
"Anti-intellectualism has been a constant thread winding its way through our political and cultural life, nurtured by the false notion that democracy means that 'my ignorance is just as good as your knowledge.'"
― Isaac Asimov
by burntorangehorn on Dec 5, 2011 2:33 PM CST up reply actions
VY would have come back for a chance at the NC
I don’t believe RG3 will think Baylor has that chance. OU is the only team that we really had no chance against all year. With a decent offense and solid defense we could easily be BIGXII champs next year. Our current QBs are not good enough IMO to worry about stalling their development. I would want a transfer should the right guy come along.
"Knowledge is knowing that a tomato is a fruit, wisdom is knowing not to put it in a fruit salad" - Unknown
Jones
Will stay bc his stock has plummeted as of late. RGIII is gone… His stock is hot right now and he knows it. Why come back and risk an injury?
by jtdoes on Dec 5, 2011 3:55 PM CST via mobile up reply actions
Unfortunately I live in Oklahoma and get the scoop.
Jones will probably be back because his fiance wants to stay for her last year in bball.
by 40A on Dec 5, 2011 5:40 PM CST up reply actions
That
And OSU game cost him millions. He has not looked the same since Broyles left. At this pt he is not in the discussion of top QBs. One thing when people are projecting top 15 pick another when it is round 2-3.
Unfortunately some of my best friends are OU fans
and I see the games. He’s nowhere near elite-level as far as leadership goes. When things go bad he crumbles. Luckily he has (had) two of the best WRs in the college game to make him look good.
In the short to intermediate range he’s pretty good, but he can’t throw an accurate long ball consistently.
He’ll be back for sure to try and improve his stock, as you said.
by 40A on Dec 5, 2011 7:01 PM CST up reply actions
Jones hasn't even thrown a touchdown pass without Broyles.
If it’s that easy for a guy who was considered a reasonably high NFL draft pick to come crashing down to earth, think about the situation that the Texas quarterbacks have been put in this season for comparison.
Follow me on Twitter: @GhostofBigRoy
Burnt Orange Nation
by Wescott Eberts (GoBR) on Dec 6, 2011 1:04 PM CST up reply actions
GoBR - Bravo - in a short paragraph, you have succinctly nailed a salient point about our QB's
Proud of your offense? Manny badger don't give a shit!
Interesting post
I disagree but thanks for presenting the con side.
“Despite the need to relieve some pressure on Mack Brown with a greater level of success on the field, this team is not in win-now mode.”
Texas has finished under .500 the last two years in conference play. It has been a long, long time since that has happened. We live in a “what have you done for me lately, world”. A lot of possible high school recruits who started paying attention to college football in the last couple of years don’t remember a good Texas football team. A third straight not good year is likely to hurt recruiting some.
“Each of these players are on the open market right now because they lost quarterback competitions at other school.”
Transfer QBs may still be more talented, more physically ready, more mature, and more experienced than David Ash, Case McCoy. Definitely Texas should take a close look. Connor Brewer should redshirt next season to get out of the vicious cycle Texas is in re: damaging young QBs by playing them too soon.
“Further splitting the reps would only further hurt the developments of Ash, McCoy, and Brewer. Consider where both Ash and McCoy would be now if one or both had received the reps that went to Garrett Gilbert and Connor Wood during the spring, summer, and fall.”
Ash should have redshirted this year. The top end for Case might be mediocre div 1 QB. The reps need to go to a QB worthy of the reps..
Who replaces them?
There is a very strong chance that neither Case nor Ash is the QB of the future.
These two and the two that are still in high school are our only candidates. Of the two on campus, Ash is STILL the only one with enough upside to fill the post. I think he can be trained to do so and will have a full year of experience under his belt. Quit panicking everyone – Ash will be just fine next year. My God, he is just a baby and should have had a shirt this year anyway.
Proud of your offense? Manny badger don't give a shit!
I agree about no Juco/transfer QB, but think that next year can at least be about winning the conference
It is not a stretch to think that we win 2 of Mizzou, KSU, Baylor if we have all (or even 3 or 2) of our best skill position players healthy. Hell, the optimist in me says we may even take all 3 of them. So we easily could be sitting at 9 wins (with the chance at Mack’s favorite win number 10 in the bowl game).
As you said, we are very young at a lot of positions. Everyone of those young players should be better and stronger next year. The OL will have another year under Searels. Harsin will have a better feel for what he has on offense. Both QB’s should improve at least a little. The defense will have another year to soak up what Manny is trying to do. I believe with all of that, Texas is at least 1-2 games better than their potential this year.
Then look at the schedule. Every team except KSU looks to be weaker next year (assuming RGIII leaves early). OU will be good like always, but they lose a lot, especially if Jones leaves early. Worst case I think we split with the new teams (both should be at home).
I'm really on the fence on whether I want to go this route
But regardless of what the coaching staff decides, I want it made perfectly clear to everyone from the start that Brewer is going to be redshirted. As soon as he steps on campus I want the coaching staff handing him an actual red colored shirt as a metaphor to the season that is to be.
My fear is that he’ll play well in the spring game and practice and actually beat out Ash and McCoy, and he’ll thrown to the wolves and will be forced to start and contribute as a freshman. I’ll be damned if I want to ruin another solid prospective QB’s confidence by throwing him into the fray way before he’s ready.
Now, we must all fear evil men. But there is another kind of evil which we must fear most, and that is the indifference of good men. - The Boondock Saints
re: Brewer
My thoughts exactly. I hope he pushes the QBs in spring, summer, and fall camp, but for the love of God give the kid a redshirt. Let’s actually create something resembling a plan at the QB position.
Hook 'em! @michaelpelech10 on Twitter
by The Audit Horn on Dec 5, 2011 2:18 PM CST via mobile up reply actions
I tend to agree
The only QB that could come in that I’d even be interested in giving a look is Ryan Katz. He looked serviceable at Oregon State in my limited viewing of him.
To me, this isn’t a need to look for immediate help like DT and OT. I’m fine with whats on the roster given an offseason. I think Ash and McCoy are salvageable, more-so Ash. Ash won’t have to be Colt 2008 to get us to 10 wins next year. Complete 60%, throw for around 2,000 yards, 15 TDs and less than 10 INTs, and that should be all we’d need.
Hook 'em! @michaelpelech10 on Twitter
by The Audit Horn on Dec 5, 2011 2:16 PM CST via mobile reply actions
I would like a GREAT QB but I will take a Game Manager
At least for the time being, I agree with PB.
You look at Gray, MB, Joe B, combined with Shipley, Davis, Goodwin and if any of the Freshman can contribute right away (Cayleb) include them as well. The recipe for Texas success is as simple as continued improvement along the O-line and further development in Harsin’s system.
Harsin’s system is good enough to win with a game manager if the OLine play can continue to improve, the team gets better at attention to detail, then we will by nature become more multiple which is the essential component of Harsin’s offense.
Case did a great job in the first half of hitting the base plays to open up the big plays. If he had MB and Joe B to boot, then he would not have been in the position to try to win with his arm on deep balls. Texas clearly isn’t good enough to win without 2 of its best 3 offensive players. All this panic is just silly, and most observes need to take a more sober look at what we are and where we are.
My problem with Harsin in the OSU and Baylor games
Was that he seemed to just abandon the run in both games, when I believe we could have won both 4 yards at a time. I realize the Big 3 were all out for Baylor, but we were moving the ball on the ground pretty well with Hills, Johnson and DJ.
This was especially frustrating once we actually got the lead against Baylor. I fully believe we could have matched them drive for drive the entire second half by going 90% run.
Maybe Mack
At the end (last two minutes) of the first half, Mack wanted to put the pedal to the metal offensively. Instead of continuing the run oriented offense, he switched to a more passing oriented approach to try to score before half time. It seemed to change the mindset of the horn coaching staff. That was when Case started committing turnovers and the horns got in catch up mode. The Texas offense worked dependably only as a run first team.
The passing stats seemed to indicate that Case had a big day but were somewhat misleading. Two huge yardage passing plays were actually quite short passes that were turned into big plays via YAC. One TD pass was the result of an unbelievably brilliant catch by Irby. Another TD pass was the pass to Luke which is a one of change tendency call.
Very possible it was Mack
But even before that the offense seemed to be passing more than needed.
Either way, the pass that was picked off was the same pass that was almost picked a few passes earlier (Davis completion that was a tie up with the DB). Bad play call in that situation, especially with McCoys arm.
by Horncasting on Dec 5, 2011 3:27 PM CST via mobile up reply actions
Yep
Texas could run on Baylor and should have run as much as possible. One problem was the large number of penalties that got the horns behind on the chains.
On that first sideways pass that got picked off, it took sooo long to get to the WR. Case cannot make that throw without risking a pick 6. Ash can fire that throw out there with plenty of heat.
I was wondering if Mack or Harsin just wanted to pull out the dagger at the end of the half
It looked like they were going for that, but didn’t execute.
"Anti-intellectualism has been a constant thread winding its way through our political and cultural life, nurtured by the false notion that democracy means that 'my ignorance is just as good as your knowledge.'"
― Isaac Asimov
by burntorangehorn on Dec 6, 2011 8:32 AM CST up reply actions
Good points.
But even a game manager must be able to make ALL the throws. Case can’t.
by 40A on Dec 5, 2011 5:59 PM CST up reply actions
Agreed
If we can take the pressure of Ash so he can return to hitting the short routes, I say lets go with him. To me hitting the quick passes is a more important pre-requisite at this juncture.
Next yr, its anybodies game. If Ash matures he is clearly the more well rounded option
I think with the stable of coaches we have now
he will. He’s very coachable (something Case isn’t).
QBs shouldn’t miss WRs, but I’d rather my QB miss long than miss short, to be honest. That sounds silly but I say that because the WRs we have now and the ones coming in can make plays. You really can’t make a play on a ball behind you.
by 40A on Dec 5, 2011 6:20 PM CST up reply actions
By "anybodies"
I assume you mean Ash or Brewer. Case just doesn’t have the arm strength.
I've got the solution...
Robert Griffin can transfer to Texas for grad school and his final year of eligibility. I think that would be enough ability at quarterback to win us a national championship and give Brewer the needed redshirt time.
Sally, will you meet me at the airport?
If that were actually feasible
Could you imagine the backlash? The cries of back room deals? The accusations of cheating? The death threats RGIII would get from the people in Waco? It would possibly be one of the biggest shit shows following a “legal” transaction in college football history.
One conference to rule them all. One conference to bore them.
One conference to annoy them all, and have ESPN whore them.
out of all the schools in the Big 12, if someone was to threaten me in a fight, I'd want it to be a Baylor grad.
by TheRealDirtyP1 on Dec 5, 2011 2:42 PM CST up reply actions
And I think we all have to agree
That the last group of fans we’d want to fight is the Mountaineers. Couch burning ‘n’ all that.
One conference to rule them all. One conference to bore them.
One conference to annoy them all, and have ESPN whore them.
Not to mention the muskets!
oh hail the Purple and White
I prefer
To imagine the guys on TexAgs freaking out. Would be worth it solely for the purpose of them losing their minds.
Sally, will you meet me at the airport?
by TxHorns247 on Dec 6, 2011 3:08 AM CST via mobile up reply actions
I dont care who the QB is
as long as this TEAM is winning. It could be a true freshman or a 6th year senior, doesnt matter to me.
"Stability is a factor in teams that win the championship. But if you stabilize on a team that's going to end up short of that, then all you're doing is spinning your wheels in the 45-win range."-----Daryl Morey
by fanoflosingteams on Dec 5, 2011 2:40 PM CST reply actions
+1 I was thinking that with the explanation of Crist being able to go anywhere
Texas has plenty more graduate programs than Baylor. Give him #10 and let’s get this done Mack! (I’m more likely to win the lottery than for this to happen).
I'd be shocked if the coaching staff isn't at least strongly considering a JUCO QB...
….the pressure is there, and if its ever going to happen, this is the offseason that it would.
I vote for Crist
He won the Heisman for me in NCAA 2010, so I know he’s good. That’s enough proof, right?
undefeated in Sun Belt play
by LongCat on Dec 5, 2011 3:08 PM CST up reply actions 1 recs
Its just so painfully obvious that QB is our weakest link
We have to do something. Either we forgot how to evaluate a recruit and/or forgot how to develop QB’s. We have had 4 QB’s now since Colt and none seemed to have developed.
Ash should have redshirted his first year and I think Brewer should sit next year. I think the best way to salvage Ash and develop Brewer is to, if possible, to bring in a more experienced QB . He just needs to be a game manger and avoid the turnovers, and let the runningbacks do the rest.
If there ever was a time to look at bring in Juco or transfer, it has to be now. We have to consider and look at all of our options. We just need a year or two from a more experienced QB to get Ash and Brewer the time to get ready to take us to the next step…
by 4horns on Dec 5, 2011 3:08 PM CST reply actions 1 recs
It's part of the downfall of being The University of Texas.
When you have a 5 star sitting in your backyard you HAVE to take him. When you have the brother of a national championship caliber quarterback, you HAVE to take him.
by 40A on Dec 5, 2011 6:01 PM CST up reply actions
the downfall is Mack believing in his guys to a fault, at QB more than any other position.
But the thing is, your #2 guy isn’t getting all the snaps the #1 is. It’s hard for just about any kid to come into a bad situation and make it better. Being a #2 on this team and being put in a game means the wheels have come off of the wagon and you’re probably down by 14 pts or more.
by TheRealDirtyP1 on Dec 8, 2011 9:18 AM CST up reply actions
I have nothing particularly insightful to add,
but I think it is worth thinking about how we got here in the first place. Seriously, even just average QB play this season and we win ten games.
I told the people of my district that I would serve them as faithfully as I had done; but if not ... you may all go to hell, and I will go to Texas. -- Davey Crockett
by pleaseplaykindle on Dec 5, 2011 3:28 PM CST reply actions 1 recs
Win now...
1) While missing on QBs was a hit on the team. However, I contend this team has missed more on WRs lately which has contributed more to current issues. The style of offense this team runs requires more Cosbys and Shipleys (possession) vs Williams (prototypical). GG & Ash were victimized as much by dropped passes as interceptions. McCoy on the other hand (much like his brother) looked better at times due to Shipley.
2) Gray coming next year to team w/ Malcolm will give UT a nice combo & Bergeron to fill in. Replacing (IMO) future NFL star FB Cody Johnson will be needed as Texas has a good recent history of FBs. The OL will need to improve, but I see G & B being like Foster & Tate.
3) If RG3 leaves pretty much 8 teams in the B12-2 will be rebuilding. Taking a JUCO player or Graduate transfer makes sense. This ain’t USC. Worrying about 2013 or 2014 is fools’ gold. You can try and be the Braves and develop talent or you can be the Marlins and buy a WS every 5 years. Get the talent now. Let them fight it out & see who emerges. We’re also talking about competition. Perhaps throwing GG & Ash in too quickly like a rookie pitcher was more the issue. Rent a QB and you can bring along the Freshmen more slowly
Go for the jugular now & let’s get this boat turned around…
Hook ’em!
"Sometimes you win, sometimes you lose, & sometime it rains!" ~ Crash Davis
by Robertpz on Dec 5, 2011 3:34 PM CST via mobile reply actions
Win now...
1) While missing on QBs was a hit on the team. However, I contend this team has missed more on WRs lately which has contributed more to current issues. The style of offense this team runs requires more Cosbys and Shipleys (possession) vs Williams (prototypical). GG & Ash were victimized as much by dropped passes as interceptions. McCoy on the other hand (much like his brother) looked better at times due to Shipley.
2) Gray coming next year to team w/ Malcolm will give UT a nice combo & Bergeron to fill in. Replacing (IMO) future NFL star FB Cody Johnson will be needed as Texas has a good recent history of FBs. The OL will need to improve, but I see G & B being like Foster & Tate.
3) If RG3 leaves pretty much 8 teams in the B12-2 will be rebuilding. Taking a JUCO player or Graduate transfer makes sense. This ain’t USC. Worrying about 2013 or 2014 is fools’ gold. You can try and be the Braves and develop talent or you can be the Marlins and buy a WS every 5 years. Get the talent now. Let them fight it out & see who emerges. We’re also talking about competition. Perhaps throwing GG & Ash in too quickly like a rookie pitcher was more the issue. Rent a QB and you can bring along the Freshmen more slowly
Go for the jugular now & let’s get this boat turned around…
Hook ’em!
"Sometimes you win, sometimes you lose, & sometime it rains!" ~ Crash Davis
by Robertpz on Dec 5, 2011 3:34 PM CST via mobile reply actions
disagree
i disagree with this article all the way.we need better qb play.i don`t care who the qb is.mack needs to quit trying to give the qb job to someone.bring in players and let them win the job.but what we are playing right now is not the answer.brewer should not play as a freshman.bring in another older qb let brewer and ash redshirt.they both can get their seasoning by not playing.vince young redshirted,colt mccoy redshirted,major applewhite redshirted.case mccoy,david ash,garrett gilbert,and chris simms did not redshirt.i rest my case.HOOK`EM
Problem
Who is the silver bullet? Each potential candidate comes with as much or more question than what we have and had on the roster. There’s no chance Ash RS next year just not possible. There’s nothing in the pipeline (actually, there is no pipeline), and there’s nobody out there that’s an immediate fix. There is no Cam Newton. There is no Russell Wilson. There’s not even a Greg Paulus. Talking about bringing up the right fix is fine and dandy, but who?
Hook 'em! @michaelpelech10 on Twitter
by The Audit Horn on Dec 5, 2011 4:39 PM CST via mobile up reply actions
I think there is a difference
Between saying you are in favor of the idea and saying it must be done. I am personally of the opinion that we should keep an open mind. Those that say it “needs” to be done are the ones who should be pointing out potential replacements (although Wescott already alluded to a few of them).
Summing up: There are three sides. Roll with what we’ve got now and what is coming in, keep an open mind to the idea of taking a Juco/xfer, and take the best guy available no matter how good or helpful he actually is.
Follow me on Twitter @GoHornsGo90
Didnt consider option 3
I’m all for checking out and keeping an open mind. Can’t argue that. But by no means do I think we need to go out and take best available. Think Ash is completely capable of coming out next year and being competent at worst. Maybe rolling with Case down the stretch was all in the hopes of saving Ash’s psyche, and giving him a quarter of a RS.
Hook 'em! @michaelpelech10 on Twitter
by The Audit Horn on Dec 5, 2011 8:21 PM CST via mobile up reply actions
Re:
Further splitting the reps would only further hurt the developments of Ash, McCoy, and Brewer.
Working to develop Ash/McCoy is an exercise in futility. I think the sooner this coaching staff comes to grips with that, the better off we’ll be.
I’ve been quick to dismiss the whole JuCo transfer idea mostly because legitimate candidates aren’t usually discussed. Yet, when I look at the prospects above, I have to think that there’s at least a chance they can be better than Ash/McCoy, right? No hyperbole here – the two of them showed me some of the worst QB play (possibly the worst) that I’ve ever seen at a major D-1 program. And, we think it could be worse? How?
Sure, all these guys lost out to starting jobs at other D-1 programs. Two things to point out:
1. The guys they lost out to would almost certainly be starting for UT today were they on the roster
2. Losing a starting job elsewhere doesn’t necessarily mean they’d lose it here given the train wreck we have on our hands at the QB position.
Getting one of these JUCO guys is obviously a two way street, and there’s no guarantees we’d be able to secure the top guys (specifically, Crist). Still, this coaching staff is foolish if they don’t bother exploring these options. We don’t need a savior at QB. We just need someone to tide us over for a few years until, hopefully, we can develop Brewer. That guy is not on this roster today. Bring a JUCO guy in to compete. The downside is minimal.
Despite the constant rhetoric fed to us from Belmont about long term perspective, there are real consequences in recruiting that will be felt from consistent mediocrity. Even if we are looking forward, a band-aid right now would go a long ways in getting this program headed back in the right direction.
we have the number 1 class in the nation
filled w/ difference makers all sold on turning the ship around. not really worried about consistent mediocrity. it’s not gonna happen, esp if somehow we’re able to shirt brewer and get one of the awesome prospects at qb this coming year (SWOOPES PLS)
Not speaking to this year, but recruiting years in the future.
At this point, the new, flashy coaching staff can sell the dream. There comes a point though, where production trumps potential. No doubt, we aren’t there yet, but I also think that it’s foolish to believe that consistent mediocrity couldn’t potentially catch up with us at some point.
Also, I’m not arrogant enough to think that Mack hasn’t considered all these things now. He knows he needs to win. And, he certainly knows that the QB position is a mess, even if only discussed in private. I just wonder, despite the transformation for Mack to get outside his comfort zone, if he’s willing to get even further outside his box and take a serious look at JUCO prospects….something he’s never shown much interest in before.
Well they are looking
at JUCO prospects now, but 3/4 of our recruits are/will be better than JUCOs. Like has been stated before, there is nobody out there JUCO wise at QB that is gonna for sure make us better. There’s no Newtons out there.
by 40A on Dec 5, 2011 6:08 PM CST up reply actions
The same can also be said about the QBS we have in-house and the commitments.
there is nobody out there JUCO wise at QB that is gonna for sure make us better.
See ya later, alligator and sheep-mater.
by Paleface Horn on Dec 6, 2011 8:12 AM CST up reply actions
Very true.
However, in that case I would stick with what I have. A young QB (Ash) with ability and knows most of the offense. I would take that then to grab an unproven who has never worked with our coaches and has no understanding of our offense.
by 40A on Dec 6, 2011 1:40 PM CST up reply actions
But why not take the "unproven" and see what he can do?
That does not foreclose playing Ash if he’s better in our system come game time. In addition, I don’t think Ash has demonstrated the “ability” we need or that he “knows most of the offense.” No offense (pun intended).
See ya later, alligator and sheep-mater.
by Paleface Horn on Dec 6, 2011 4:55 PM CST up reply actions
He has had way more time with the coaches,
taking reps, learning. Bringing in somebody not familiar in ANY aspect of the coaching/offense just further hinders Ash’s development. It’s not worth it.
I know the jury is still out, but
my gut tells me Ash ain’t “it.” Your position assumes that Ash can make the necessary progress. I saw a QB that got worse later in the season, not better.
See ya later, alligator and sheep-mater.
by Paleface Horn on Dec 7, 2011 4:09 PM CST up reply actions
Ash got worse because the OFFENSE got worse - we lost our running backs.
Proud of your offense? Manny badger don't give a shit!
Again, but who?
Ryan Katz comes with the same physical limitations that Case suffers from. Dayne Crist is the same high profile recruit prone to throwing picks that Garrett Gilbert was. Massawhatever left Kentucky, and we’re not talking basketball. To assume that the grass is greener because you can’t fathom un-greener grass is as short-sighted ignorance as I’ve seen here.
Hook 'em! @michaelpelech10 on Twitter
by The Audit Horn on Dec 5, 2011 4:41 PM CST via mobile up reply actions
In his defense,
seriously, can you fathom ungreener grass?
Maybe I’m spoiled from back-to-back reigns of Victor Young and Colt McCoy, but the last two years have just been facepalm in terms of our QB play. This is becoming all the more evident as we see the rest of the team maturing.
I told the people of my district that I would serve them as faithfully as I had done; but if not ... you may all go to hell, and I will go to Texas. -- Davey Crockett
by pleaseplaykindle on Dec 5, 2011 4:50 PM CST up reply actions
I can fathom much un-greener grass
Watch other teams play. Seriously, some of these guys are terrible. Shoot, I saw our bowl game opponent, Zachary Maynard, look absolutely putrid in a Thursday night game.
Hook 'em! @michaelpelech10 on Twitter
by The Audit Horn on Dec 5, 2011 4:53 PM CST via mobile up reply actions
You've made some good points, and I'm not trying to seriously argue this,
but Zach Maynard has not had a terrible season.
I told the people of my district that I would serve them as faithfully as I had done; but if not ... you may all go to hell, and I will go to Texas. -- Davey Crockett
by pleaseplaykindle on Dec 5, 2011 5:31 PM CST up reply actions
He's had a fine season
But his lows have been just as low as the QBs we have now.
Hook 'em! @michaelpelech10 on Twitter
by The Audit Horn on Dec 5, 2011 5:42 PM CST via mobile up reply actions
His highs, sadly, much higher :(
Sep 10, 2011 at Colorado: 18/35 4 TD 1 INT 243 yards
Would’ve killed for a statline like that from a QB in burnt orange at some point this year. Although he definitely put up lines like this:
Oct 29, 2011 at UCLA: 14/30 0 TD 4 INT 199 yards
I told the people of my district that I would serve them as faithfully as I had done; but if not ... you may all go to hell, and I will go to Texas. -- Davey Crockett
by pleaseplaykindle on Dec 5, 2011 5:45 PM CST up reply actions
Lubbock?
With its ungreenest of grasses. Just stand in one place, wait a minute, and it’ll come to you!
Its QBs, on the other hand…I’d be glad to take a Doege off their hands, in exchange for some Bermuda sod – and water.
I have it on good authority that if you type "Google" into Google, you can break the Internet. So please, no one try it, even for a joke. It's not a laughing matter. You can break the Internet.
The IT Crowd
by beast in bama on Dec 5, 2011 5:17 PM CST up reply actions
Not interested
in one-read-gimmick QBs. We just had one of those, he started for us last year.
by 40A on Dec 5, 2011 6:09 PM CST up reply actions
Strangely, Doege's productivity has been far better than any Texas QB's since Colt was injured
Maybe it’s not just the one-read-gimmick thing.
"Anti-intellectualism has been a constant thread winding its way through our political and cultural life, nurtured by the false notion that democracy means that 'my ignorance is just as good as your knowledge.'"
― Isaac Asimov
by burntorangehorn on Dec 6, 2011 8:46 PM CST up reply actions
When you throw
70 times a game, productivity will probably be higher. Of course he’s a better QB than Ash/McCoy, and I think he has a chance to be more than a gimmick QB, but I wouldn’t take that chance, no sir.
So do you think Ash/McCoy would be more productive throwing 70/game?
They would probably put up more yardage, but I don’t think their numbers would be nearly as productive, successful, or effective as Doege’s. I don’t think Brewer’s would be next year either.
"Anti-intellectualism has been a constant thread winding its way through our political and cultural life, nurtured by the false notion that democracy means that 'my ignorance is just as good as your knowledge.'"
― Isaac Asimov
by burntorangehorn on Dec 8, 2011 4:53 PM CST up reply actions
Like I said,
I think Doege is your run of the mill Tech QB. He will throw the 10 yd slant 70 times and look alright. Doesn’t mean he can make complex reads or run a real offense. And I’m not comparing him to Ash/McCoy.
Nowhere did I make that definitive statement.
In fact:
Bring a JUCO guy in to compete. The downside is minimal.
Dayne Crist is the same high profile recruit prone to throwing picks that Garrett Gilbert was.
Oh, I see. So, a 2:1 TD:INT ratio is equal to a 1:2 ratio? Sure, Crist threw picks, but he also threw TDs. 15 TDs. 7 INTs. That’s not eye popping, but it would have been enough to keep us in some games this year. Moreover, he only had one game with more than one INT last year.
Of course, the kid isn’t perfect. He’s transferring. We’re not looking for the next Cameron Newton. But, he’s shown enough to give at least a reasonable expectation that he could compete with David Ash and that should be enough to warrant consideration, no?
Gilbert vs Crist in 2010
Crist: 174-294, 59.2%, 2,033 yards 6.92 YPA, 15 TDs and 7 INTs.
Gilbert: 260-441, 59.0%, 2,744 yards 6.22 YPA, 10 TDs and 17 INTs.
Pardon me that I’m not falling over my two feet to grab a QB that was pulled the same time as everyone’s most hated QB of all time, when he had hardly better numbers with an offensive coach with a clue and better weapons around him.
Hook 'em! @michaelpelech10 on Twitter
by The Audit Horn on Dec 5, 2011 5:29 PM CST via mobile up reply actions
Jesus.
Gilbert completed as many passes as that guy attempted! Just a ridiculous statistic and a complete indictment of Greg Davis, I think.
That said, you’d hope for more than 10 YD’s over 440 passing attempts..
I told the people of my district that I would serve them as faithfully as I had done; but if not ... you may all go to hell, and I will go to Texas. -- Davey Crockett
by pleaseplaykindle on Dec 5, 2011 5:32 PM CST up reply actions
*10 TDs, of course.
I told the people of my district that I would serve them as faithfully as I had done; but if not ... you may all go to hell, and I will go to Texas. -- Davey Crockett
by pleaseplaykindle on Dec 5, 2011 5:33 PM CST up reply actions
That offense was a mess
On so many levels.
Hook 'em! @michaelpelech10 on Twitter
by The Audit Horn on Dec 5, 2011 5:42 PM CST via mobile up reply actions
No argument here.
I told the people of my district that I would serve them as faithfully as I had done; but if not ... you may all go to hell, and I will go to Texas. -- Davey Crockett
by pleaseplaykindle on Dec 5, 2011 5:42 PM CST up reply actions
10 TDs -17 INTERCEPTIONS !
I observed from afar. To me Gilberts problems were the stupendously bad # of interceptions, which led, I believe, to the demoralization of your defense. Look what KSU did this year BY NOT TURNING the ball over.
oh hail the Purple and White
What?
Pardon me that I’m not falling over my two feet to grab a QB that was pulled the same time as everyone’s most hated QB of all time, when he had hardly better numbers with an offensive coach with a clue and better weapons around him.
Falling over my two feet? I merely suggested that he could potentially be better than David Ash, who arguably played worse than Gilbert in 2010. Is it really such a stretch to think that Crist could compete as the starter? I don’t understand the downside.
The downside
Is further splitting reps in camps and further convoluting the QB situation. I wouldn’t even care to waste the scholarship and taking a flyer on one of these QBs. We need as many as possible to rebuild and fabricate some depth at various other positions.
I just think it’s naive that we’d want to try and rehabilitate other team’s QBs, rather than our own.
Hook 'em! @michaelpelech10 on Twitter
by The Audit Horn on Dec 5, 2011 5:41 PM CST via mobile up reply actions
I suppose this is where you and I fundamentally disagree.
I think our QB’s are beyond repair. My hope is that I’m way off, but I didn’t see enough out of either QB to believe it can be fixed enough to produce even just a game manager in one offseason.
Case
is unable to be rehab-ed. For as long as we’ve been here, he has yet to change a thing about his poor mechanics and absolutely dreadful footwork. It’s obvious why he was offered and it’s a joke that he’s starting for The University of Texas. We’ll see how much work they can do on him this offseason, I assuredly have more hope he will learn from our coaches now versus GD (Colt and VY never changed mechanics/footwork either).
In the best possible scenario, Ash needs to take a redshirt. It doesn’t matter what year he is, if we want him to come in and ACTUALLY compete he needs a year with the clipboard.
by 40A on Dec 5, 2011 6:14 PM CST up reply actions
Gross statistics are misleading in terms of TDs/INTs.
Crist: TD% – 5.1% INT% – 2.3%
Gilbert: TD% – 2.2% INT% – 3.8%
Ash: TD % – 2% INT% – 5.3%
I believe Crist has what it takes to manage games for us better than Ash. I don’t think it’s crazy to think he could compete for a starting job here.
I see what you're saying...
But the 10 more interceptions Gilbert threw mae a huge difference. Most of those picks were on our side of the field too. Crist threw 5 more touchdowns and 10 less interceptions.
One last thing:
Ryan Katz comes with the same physical limitations that Case suffers from.
Is it the injury that makes you say that? Can he not spin it anymore? I can’t find any relevant info on the kid post-injury.
Pre-injury though…
Here’s what [Bruce Feldman] writes about Katz: “Short of Ryan Mallett, I haven’t seen another QB playing in college right now with a stronger arm.”
Link. Moreover, just an ancillary look at the kids highlight reel shows that he could really spin it. He’s the same build as Colt McCoy. What about him makes him physically limited today?
I said prior
That Katz is the only available QB I know of that I’d even care to take a look at. Just vaguely remembering watching him last season, he looked serviceable. Not sure how he is post-injury, hence why I wouldn’t mind kicking the tires on him.
With that said, I think even that’s a reach. But if we don’t think we can develop Ash or McCoy (and I think we can) to a level that they can just keep from losing games, that’s the only circumstance I’d care to bring in an experienced player for a year.
Hook 'em! @michaelpelech10 on Twitter
by The Audit Horn on Dec 5, 2011 5:37 PM CST via mobile up reply actions
Katz doesn't have similar physical limitations
As Case. Nobody does. Katz throws a much better ball, understands the pocket better, and can throw it much farther even without putting his entire body into it. Not a fair comparison.
Follow me on Twitter @GoHornsGo90
if the 'horns wanted Crist, he'd be here. No question. If you were a QB coming into a situation,
Crist is set up to succeed. Strong running backs and receivers and a decent offensive line. Wisconsin is very attractive as well, but if Mack picks up the phone and tells him they want him here, he’ll be here.
by TheRealDirtyP1 on Dec 8, 2011 9:21 AM CST up reply actions
But GOBR, what do you make of Bill's comments ... that the coaches would practice QBs and eval in the bowl game to see if they would take another QB?
I will change my legal name to "I. M. Harsin" if Texas scores on a Statue of Liberty or Hook-and-Ladder vs. OU."
by Distributor of the Football on Dec 5, 2011 5:05 PM CST reply actions
This Whole Discourse Has Been Like The Chicken or the Egg Thing
How would a competent QB ruin the development of our present QBs.All but Case needs a red shirt year.Case is what he is and he should accept that or transfer out of Div. I.
We have had two years of losing in the Big 12 so we should like another.No way!
If we bring in a QB and he is better than what we got what’s wrong with that???
Right now Brewer, Overstreet and Ash need time to develop.Two of them should red shirt.
Almost any experienced QB we bring in would be better than Case so I really don’t see that we would lose much.
Think of this if you were a defensive cooordinator in the Big 12 would you fear playing a team lead by Case McCoy?
Come on Mack do the expedient thing.Get us an experienced QB,it’s the right thing to do and there is nothing but upside in doing it.So just do it.
by TCB Orange Dino on Dec 5, 2011 5:10 PM CST reply actions 1 recs
I appreciate the article and understand the argument. Just doesn't set me at ease though.
Case will be a junior (!) next year and we’ll still be trying to teach him to throw as if he’s NOT holding an open beer can in his left hand and wearing stiletto heals . This project is going nowhere I’m afraid to say. Should not have gotten a scholarship.
Ash made poor decisions and that got him benched, but seems to me the most likely candidate to realistically improve in the off-season with more snaps and some Harsin 1×1 attention.
If he does improve, makes better decisions, and he’s backed by a healthy (pick any two) Brown, Bergeron or Gray, then UT can have a competent to very good offense. I’m just afraid that Ash can’t put it together mentally a la Gilbert.
I guess my dreams of hiring, I mean recruiting, a Cam Newton-type for a couple of years is going to twist in the wind.
The wildcard (like pipe dream) is either Brewer or Overstreet being exceptionally good and mature and beating out Ash for starter.
All I want for Christmas is a quarterback recruit.
Case will be a junior (!) next year and we’ll still be trying to teach him to throw as if he’s NOT holding an open beer can in his left hand and wearing stiletto heals
Could not agree more (although I could have done without the images)
Oops. Heels. Stole this from austexbill. Pretty much sums it up.
All I want for Christmas is a quarterback recruit.
Hey - that's me in 8th grade - who stole my Picture?
oh hail the Purple and White
by Furnace76 on Dec 5, 2011 7:27 PM CST up reply actions 1 recs
of the QBs you stated above, non should come to Texas. But Texas does need a competent/game managing/decent QB. If there is a juco/transfer guy that has 1-2 years left, we have to get him bc this team can get to the BCS. I think Jacob Karam from TT is worth a look and maybe another Juco guy. We dont need nor want a Cam Newton. If the new QB comes in, he can provide competition for the current 2 on the roster. Ash has potential and can be that guy also, and maybe another offseason does Case some good with arm strength and mechanics. Let them compete. Brewer needs to RS and be ready to compete in 2013. Texas should look to bring in a non HS QB this offseason!
What!?
I would take a Cam Newton over a Karam, Katz, Crist combined QB!
by 40A on Dec 5, 2011 7:03 PM CST up reply actions
not saying dont take Cam, there is not Cam to take.
by TheContractor on Dec 5, 2011 11:15 PM CST up reply actions
Why not take a chance on a JUCO or Transfer?
Horns can make room for the right person. Neither Ash nor McCoy are the answer. we’ve seen them play and we’ve all seen better QB play by underclassmen. They are not Colt or VY. Horns messed up evaluating the talent. Plain and simple.
by Dawnpatrol on Dec 5, 2011 7:50 PM CST reply actions 1 recs
i watched the game with about 20 people on Saturday.
none of them Longhorns. they were all in agreement that Horns need a start at QB
true freshman playing before he is ready
why would you start all over with someone else before Ash is given some time to mature. just because he was bad as a true freshman doesn’t mean he can’t get better. I’m ecstatic that he will be getting almost a whole month of extra practice. Plus, now he will get a whole offseason, summer practice, and camp with the coaches. I think a lot of Horns are a bit premature with their observations.
Cut!
No. No. No, man.
You're making me fall asleep,
to death bro! -Ghandi
by TexasGarcia37 on Dec 5, 2011 8:05 PM CST up reply actions
I believe the main worry
Is that he will be mind-screwed like Garrett was after last year. An understandable worry, IMO, after seeing his loss of confidence over this season culminating in the abysmal showing against KSU. That throw to Quise in the Baylor game was flat-out perfect, though.
Follow me on Twitter @GoHornsGo90
Agree
Ash was making reasonable progress prior to losing all of the play makers. Granted he had a long way to go, but we must remember he was a true freshman. Really don’t understand why Wood wasn’t given the running package and Ash red shirted.
Hopefully the coaches will use the bowl practice and off season to resurrect Ash’s confidence and improve his mechanics. I can’t see Case changing enough to not be a liability. Too much of a playground quarterback, and I believe it’s just his personality. If growing up the son of a coach and spending two years in the program hasn’t changed the way he plays, I can’t see more practice time making a difference.
by longhorn charlie on Dec 5, 2011 8:19 PM CST up reply actions
Don't know what you mean by reasonable progress?
He looked awful against Okie state( Understandable they are the 2nd best team in the country)
Looked mehhh against KU, but lost brown + Shipley( Threw an awful int into the endzone into triple coverage)
mehhh vs Tech( Had a nice scramble, but only threw 7 passes. No Picks ;) ) Lost Bergeron
Looked bad vs Mizzou, lost Fozzy
Looked Bad vs Kstate ( The second pick was the worse throw i’ve seen by a QB at the D1 level, perhaps ever)
After Baylor though, I don’t think Case is the answer, since he did throw an interception finally.
I think Ash has the mentality of GG 2.0, and Case isn’t the right guy either. That being said, whoever gets the job next season will have a lot of help with BBG. We just need to properly split their carries to avoid injuries
Re:
why would you start all over with someone else before Ash is given some time to mature.
These decisions aren’t made in isolation without the benefit of more information. Coaches will get a better feel for things through bowl practices and into the spring. Point is that I don’t think Ash or Case have done enough to deserve the benefit of the doubt that they will certainly progress next year. Bring in a JUCO guy and let the three (or two if there’s a transfer) compete.
Meant to add....
Bringing in a JUCO guy doesn’t prohibit this staff from starting Ash if they determine he’s the best guy next fall.
I think people want to make this into a binary:
0: Start Ash/McCoy; Don’t bring in JUCO
1: Bench current QBs; Bring in JUCO
When in fact we can bring in a JUCO guy and still start Ash/McCoy if that’s what the situation dictates.
You are right
But if you bring a Juco to compete with Ash/Colt for the starters position and he loses, what was the point of bringing him in? Juco should come in and win the job ala Wheeden or Cam.
Cut!
No. No. No, man.
You're making me fall asleep,
to death bro! -Ghandi
by TexasGarcia37 on Dec 6, 2011 12:41 PM CST up reply actions
Re:
But if you bring a Juco to compete with Ash/Colt for the starters position and he loses, what was the point of bringing him in?
Because we are hopelessly lost at the QB position. I suppose there’s downside in that the other two could lose reps, but that calculated risk is worth the potential upside we’d get from a decent quarterback on the roster. And, given how terrible the QB play was this last season, I really don’t think it’s a stretch to think that one of these guys could come in and win the starting job.
What’s the potential upside with any of the JUCO/transfer QBs that are options? There are no Weeden/Wilson/Newton’s out there. The potential upside is NOT more than working with the stable of QBs we have now.
by 40A on Dec 6, 2011 1:46 PM CST up reply actions
Why must this be an either/or proposition?
Bring a JUCO guy in and let them compete.
The whole “starters reps” deal is overcooked. Yes, it matters. But, the more important thing is finding the guy that can just manage games for us.
It would appear that you’re 100% certain that Ash can do that better than a JUCO transfer. I’m not.
I'm looking at it the other way
If I’m Coach Brown, I’m only signing a JUCO QB if I know he is going to take the starting job, period, ala Cam, Wheedon, or Wilson. If I’m not 100%, it’s a waste of a schollie to just bring one in for the heck of it. But that is me. You, I think, look at it differently.
Cut!
No. No. No, man.
You're making me fall asleep,
to death bro! -Ghandi
by TexasGarcia37 on Dec 6, 2011 8:52 PM CST up reply actions
When you have a young QB (freshman)
starters reps and time with the coaches can never be “overcooked”. It’s part of QB development.
by 40A on Dec 7, 2011 3:17 PM CST up reply actions
It wasn't just that he was bad
He was horrible. His passes were always behind the receiver. He threw one good ball all season. A deep ball to Mike Davis for a touchdown. And he is not the “Tebow” type runner the announcers kept on saying he was. He didn’t show anything promising.
He shows more upside
than there will ever be with Case.
by 40A on Dec 6, 2011 1:47 PM CST up reply actions
Ash
He was recruited to be a zone read QB. He was a 3 star like Colt I think but just had great natural ability in a zone read offense. He isn’t quite as fast as Colt but he has the size to take more hits and break a tackle or two. Ash has the tangibles (great arm strength btw) but just needs time to be coached. I don’t think he, or anyone else, expected to start as a true freshman. It’s hard to change a QB to a system he really hasn’t run at all. If he had shirted, I have a feeling he would be a lot better but such is not the case. I have a feeling that he will be working with someone to improve his mechanics and his ability to read a defense. Ash v McCoy stills comes out Ash as far as upside goes but he needs development. Yes, now I’m scared to death he will have mental issues but hopefully not. Either way, Brewer needs to shirt unless he comes in and just blows everyone away in every phase of our offense. GG played his heart out for us and I thank him for that but Davis really missed with that recruitment and now it is showing how much we had put into GG’s ability to be a star instead of actual evaluation.
Case McCoy
I’m sure he is a great kid and we all would like him if we met him.
I have no axe to grind with Case. However, I think everyone is being unfair by pilin on him. Hell yeah, we all wish he was like Colt, but he just isn’t!
The hard truth is, Mack nor his dad did the poor kid any favors by recruiting him and by allowing him to come to Texas. They were both adults and were responsible for his welfare and did not look after the boy’s best interest. He would have been a lot better served going to a school like Sam Houston or SF Austin. I know he was indoctrinated into the Texas scene, but as he matured and his head overtook his heart, he would have realized it was in his best interest as well. His dad is a head coach, himself, and if he wasn’t overcome with love and the desire for him to be a clone of Colt, he would have agreed that Texas was not best for him.
You know this has been one of the crosses that Mack has had to bear this year (along with Gilbert), and this kind of situation alone would make one think about hanging them up.
You can argue that Ash is no better, what what has that got to do with Case?
Proud of your offense? Manny badger don't give a shit!
met Case just for a minute after the Baylor game. Good kid, works hard and was really sad about the loss. I dont doubt his desire but I dont think he has the talent to win vs good teams at this level.
by TheContractor on Dec 5, 2011 11:17 PM CST up reply actions
Exactly
It is almost physically painful watching Case trying to compete at this level. I’ve played some college football myself (until I realized I was out of my league) and I think I know enough about talent to be able to evaluate what I see on the field. My opinion is that Case is never going to be any better than he is right now. If you have played yourself and are cognizant of what happens on the field and between the athletes themselves, you would understand that the microcosm of Walters outburst is probably a manifestation of the teams general attitude towards Case.
That is why I say it is unfair to criticize Case, he is doing the best he can.
Case is not and should not be UT’s QB.
David Ash is a different story as well. He should have been redshirted this year and allowed to mature and learn – before being thrown to the wolves. The wolves being Oklahoma, for God’s sake! What was everyones expectations of an 18 year old boy to be laid out in his debut in this kind of pressure cooker? The kid was basically fresh from his senior HS prom!
Is there anyone on this forum that thinks they could have done better? If you are honest, do you know of anyone, under the same circumstances, that could have done better? Really?
We had eleven freshmen starting, a new OL, a new OC a new DC and a complete new offensive system that was different from what every damned kid on the team had played in their careers.
In addition to the above, we had dibilitating injuries to every skilled player we had on offense.
I’m, actually amazed we have won 7 games – the odds were against us.
Proud of your offense? Manny badger don't give a shit!
stop it
stop using facts and rational arguments. you should just be emotional and irrational. I wish more people would take a second to read your post and really think about what our QBs went through this year.
Cut!
No. No. No, man.
You're making me fall asleep,
to death bro! -Ghandi
by TexasGarcia37 on Dec 6, 2011 12:45 PM CST up reply actions
Gilbert and Case
are nowhere near a fair comparison.
And I disagree it’s unfair to pile on him. That’s what it takes to be the QB at the University of Texas.
by 40A on Dec 6, 2011 1:49 PM CST up reply actions
40A, I have read a few of your bog comments
And, for the most part, I think you have commented clearly and with articulation – certainly compared to my dis-jointed mustings.
In my opinion, it doesn’t make a damn if you play for UT of Sam Houston State. What justifies piling on an 18 or 19 year old teenager just because he plays football for the school you support or lives up to YOUR perceived standards?
Would you feel the same if the kid everyone is demolishing happened to be YOU? Or, even worse, happened to be YOUR son?
Realizing one of these kids is not going to be what we hope for is NOT justification for destruction. Being critical is another thing altogether – sure, we are all and I may be the worst. But I see so many of the commentors, who have never played a down of football in their life, pontificating from high and getting pissed when someone disagrees with them.
Anyway, I have enjoyed your postings, but disagree with this one – so sue me! :-)
Proud of your offense? Manny badger don't give a shit!
I can agree to your points.
And I definitely respect your postings, so thanks for the kind comments.
Honestly, and I’m not saying I’m an expert parent, but my kid would know what the expectations were. And if he couldn’t handle it, fine.
Now I’m not talking about being destructive, that’s another issue altogether. But I don’t think it’s unfair. Not saying it’s right, just that it’s not unfair. I just think it comes with the territory.
No worries! It wouldn’t be the first time, and certainly won’t be the last! I appreciate the opposition.
by 40A on Dec 7, 2011 1:19 PM CST up reply actions
Good QBs are developed, not born.
But the big questions are who develops them, when do they develop, and what does that mean for Texas?
Mythos aside, QBs like VY and Colt McCoy don’t ascend from on high to bring the blessings of touchdowns to us mere mortals. At the same time, you don’t see great QB play in Lubbock, Houston, and Hawaii because there’s something in the water. To become a good-to-great college QB, a player must:
1) Have a skill set to build on
2) Be coachable
3) Have the internal drive to improve
4) Experience
5) Benefit from the guidance of a competent QB coach.
Skill set: Texas has consistently pursued highly sought after QB recruits. You can’t recruit them all, but we’ve consistently brought in players with impressive accomplishments in HS. What we’ve done with them from there however…
Coachability: If a kid won’t listen to criticism, he can’t improve. Case’s benching after OU is any indication, I worry. This was also a concern with Gilbert, who peaked in the NCG. As an LT grad myself, I don’t want to play the pampered/soft card, but some kids would rather continue to hear about how great and talented they are, regardless of where they went to HS.
Internal drive: I miss reading those articles every fall about how much time Colt had spent in the weight room the previous summer. Despite the “issues” in our S&C coaching, he was noticeably stronger from year to year. Jaxon Shipley came in this year ready to play with help from his older brother. Maybe Case could follow his example. Maybe.
Experience: There’s a reason none of our recent successful QBs at Texas started as true freshman. I think we’re seeing in Ash (as with Shead before him) how valuable that extra year is a for a QB. Vince wasn’t Vince even as a redshirt freshman. Colt was talented, but his improvement between his freshman and junior year was remarkable—and that includes his sophomore slump. I think Ash needs more reps and time before anyone could make an informed call on his potential next year. If we have to start Brewer next year, I may cry.
That last one has been a huge question mark for me as a Texas fan. How can the QB coach who oversaw the development of Major, Vince, and Colt be the same guy responsible for Gilbert? Was Greg Davis that checked out by the end of his career and his scheme that bad or was Gilbert that uncoachable?
Going to a JUCO transfer is a stop gap measure. It just skips over the whole messy development process by picking up a pre-packaged player who is ready to heat up and serve. And that worked out fine for Auburn—for one year. But if we want continued success at Texas, especially continued success at QB, we have to cook for ourselves. Scouting and developing future starting QBs must be a primary objective for our program and I’d like to think HarsinWhite is an indication of that. If HarsinWhite believe we don’t have an QBs with the potential to develop—by all means—let’s get one transferred in. However, I don’t think that’s the case here.
"Next, Major Applewhite will ride a Lippizanner stallion."
Sunrise - A rational and thought out treatise!
I would agree that a freshman QB is best served redshirting his freshman year. This certainly gives him time to learn and practice against his own teammates to get a feel for college level football. It also gives the coaches time to evaluzte him and determine where he needs to prove. Ash would certainly have benefitted from this. Mike Leach made this mandatory in his system.
Now, this being said, Case had the luxury of basically sitting out his freshman year. The sad news is that it has illustrated to all that he simply doesn’t have the tools to compete, consistantly, at this level. I feel for the boy because he is drifting in limbo and future does not look good for him at Texas. I hope his father sits down with him, in the off season, and helps him face the reality that a transfer is probably in his best interest.
Proud of your offense? Manny badger don't give a shit!
Disagree
Which is probably a first for me reading one of your articles. The kids we have a QB all need to grow up. Ash, McCoy, Brewer, and Overstreet will still be kids next year, they need to grow up (physically and mentally) without being on the field and costing the other men on their team game after game. JuCO guys went to JC for a reason, but the ones at the top of the JC ranks, are the ones that have fixed the reason they went to JC in the first place.
We need a man to play QB if we are going to win big, you can even ask Colt and VY when whey were young.
Simple fix, folks
Bench McCoy.
Start Ash. Run the Bone.
Brown, Monroe and Johnson.
Cal will only get 3 possessions the whole game. We win 28 – 3
Start over in the Spring, no JUCOs.
/drops mic
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SECede?....Whoop(s)!!
by kriess on Dec 6, 2011 4:10 AM CST reply actions 1 recs
I don't think Ash can make the reads fast enough.
He’s seemed to be behind the play far too often.
See ya later, alligator and sheep-mater.
by Paleface Horn on Dec 6, 2011 8:21 AM CST up reply actions
I actually like the Bone idea
Easier to coach a young QB, easier on the Oline. Can mix some throws in.
by 40A on Dec 6, 2011 1:50 PM CST up reply actions
I think they should bring in an older guy to compete for the job
Danny O’Brien from Maryland was ACC Rookie of the Year last year before having a horrible year this year due to a lack of WRs who can catch. Dane Crist is another good option. But guys, I’m really sold on Connor Brewer. He looks so polished. His footwork and his release are textbook. He has a strong arm and is a good enough athlete to keep defenses honest with the zone read. Kid looks like he’s the guy.
Wrong
Neither of the incumbents demonstrated enough in their many opportunities this season to compel putting all eggs in those same baskets for next year. I’d be scouring the JUCO and senior/grad school ranks for a guy who can seriously compete with David Ash for the job next year. Any other decision is, as you suggest, throwing in the towel of continued mediocrity for 2012 and that, in my view, is a choice of last rather than first resort.
I'm shocked
GoBR- I’m honestly floored by what I just I read. Generally, I agree with your takes and find your arguments solid and well articulated. However, this post gives me pause.
First, you treat developing the future and finding a band-aid QB as mutually exclusive. I would argue these two things are complementary. Finding a short-term solution is exactly what Texas needs to break the cycle of putting either underdeveloped or unprepared QBs on the field with little to no chance of success. If anything, Texas should be trying to keep Brewer off the field, not ensuring that he will most likely find himself on it in week 2.
Second, the goal is not to develop McCoy and Ash to their potential, the goal is to develop a QB who can win a national championship. That’s the goal. Winning, regardless of the QB. The first step to achieving that is determining whether or not either McCoy/Ash (and later Brewer) can be that guy. I would give McCoy/Ash until the first half of spring to prove they can be that guy, otherwise we need to move on.
Typically, a little QB competition is healthy, but there really is no competition between McCoy and Ash because they are so diametrically opposed as far as what they can do on the field. Texas needs a QB that can give one or both of these two a run for their money, and that QB needs to be physically capable of starting on day 1. So once the pecking order is established in the spring between McCoy/Ash, then bring in your transfer and let the loser of McCoy/Ash seek greener pastures. IMO, none of the potential transfer QBs mentioned above are the types of guys that can demand a starting position at a school like Texas.
I agree that the expectation should not be to win the MNC in 2012, but it should be to get back to winning 10 games. That said, you simply cannot say that this team will be too “young” next year and therefore discredit the “’win now” argument. The secondary is nails, the D-line will be solid, the LBs will be young, but talented. On offense, Texas will have the most dynamic stable of RBs we have ever seen, and the WRs will be more seasoned and talented than this year. Furthermore, the offensive line will continue to get better and stronger. With the right QB, Texas can win now, let’s not quit before the fight.
by BMG on Dec 6, 2011 10:01 AM CST reply actions 1 recs
yes.....I don't want Texas to spoil what could be 10 win season (maybe BCS game) next year
because they didn’t do enough to shore up the extremely obvious QB “black hole” that currently exists.
2011 has proved to me what we don’t have.
QB's need a Red Shirt year!!!
In the hundred years that MB has been coaching, why hasn’t MB learned that you can’t start a true frosh at QB? It’s just way too fast for an 18-19 year old kid to come in and start. I remember VY being sat for a year and it still took him a couple of years to get the passing game learned. Ash has the tools!!! Just really could have used a red shirt year. There’s no way an 18 y/o kid can come to UT and perform well. If VY couldn’t, nobody can. Even Tebow had little throwing his frosh year. I just hope we can be paitent for another year and red shirt Brewer. You have got to see how much a year of growing can help! There’s a huge gap between an 18 y/o kid and a 21/22 y/o junior or senior! Please MB, realise that other positions can possible start as a frosh, but QB’s have got to sit for a year to mature!!!
My thoughts on juco players...
I played juco basketball for two years then transferred and finished up at SFA and my juco team would have blasted SFA. The talent level on that team was exponentially better. I know the perception of juco is you have a bunch of dumb guys, but that’s far from the truth. Although we did have a couple but we had a guy with a bad attitude who got kicked off the Florida St. team and a transfer from Louisiana Tech and a transfer from BYU. Then you have guys like myself, who coming out of high school weren’t good enough to go to a big time school but I felt if I could improve over two years at a juco then pursue D-1 then that would be a better avenue then going straight D-2 out of high school.
My point is and yes I am biased to juco and I realize juco basketball and football are quite different, but there are a lot of good juco players who simply have gotten a lot better since high school because they have the right attitude and work ethic. I hope we get one. What do we have to lose?
"If crime was justified by need it would be the occupation of the masses."- Chief Gillespie
Yes, by all means ...
When you have a really, really bad problem with no short-term solution in-house, just ignore it! Do nothing!
Don’t go out and try to find a short-term fix. Oh, no, that’s somehow wrong.
Sigh. Sorry, but this column is just silly.
Watch out, I bite.
by EddieTheAlbinoSquirrel on Dec 6, 2011 12:30 PM CST reply actions
I dont think people are reading this article correctly.
The premise, which i support, is that none of the options out there are as good as Mc/Ash after an offseason of training.
Ash can still get it done with some support from the team. We have bowl game practices and stuff.
I legitimately think we are a 9-10 win team even with just minimal improvement from Ash. He can’t yet make the big throws.. Thats fine. Few people can as freshman. Ground and pound with G&B&B. Ash has some wheels on his legs. Anyone remember that 75 yard run he made? He’s shown signs of improvement in the season and with some coaching he should be fine.
"Slammed that hoe on the counter like I just got 35 on the domino table!!"
Sherrod Harris
by AlDe2356 on Dec 6, 2011 12:58 PM CST reply actions 1 recs
Hes really not saying ignore the problem... just what you think is the solution isnt the right option.
"Slammed that hoe on the counter like I just got 35 on the domino table!!"
Sherrod Harris
How can anyone possibly know that?
What if we’re wrong? What if McCoy doesn’t develop physically or learn to set his feet? What if Ash’s issues are more than just youth? What if he’s now broken like Gilbert?
I ask these questions because I don’t know, nor does anyone on this board or the coaches for that matter. We can hope that one of these two progress over the bowl practices and offseason, but it’s a stretch to think that’s a certainty. Quarterbacks regress all the time from year 1 to year 2. Hell, we even saw it with Colt. People forget that there were even calls from some to start transitioning from Colt McCoy to John Chiles in 2007, given his own sophomore slump.
Many are ready to just accept it as fact that these QB’s must, and will, progress from this year to next, when none of us know for certain.
Right. Very true.
But you aren’t really saying anything of value (I don’t mean that like it sounds). Do you agree that we should search out a QB or stay with what we have?
by 40A on Dec 6, 2011 2:03 PM CST up reply actions
Explore the JUCO options.
Neither of our current QB’s have done nearly enough to get the benefit of the doubt that they will develop next year.
What JUCO QB
with no knowledge of our players or offense has the benefit of the doubt that they will develop?
by 40A on Dec 6, 2011 2:11 PM CST up reply actions
Dayne Crist. He seemed to pick up Brian Kelly's offense quick enough to put up slightly above average numbers with only one offseason.
That’s not apples to apples. None of this is, though, and all I can do is speculate.
The situation isn’t going to be perfect. Even with those hurdles, I think there’s a distinct possibility that a JUCO guy like Crist could come in here and perform better than Ash/McCoy. Neither have put up numbers that even resemble Crist’s production in his time at Notre Dame.
I’d also point out that you’re making two assumptions:
1. A JUCO transfer will likely regress given they’ll be in a new system, etc.
2. Ash/McCoy will progress this offseason
Neither is necessarily true. I’d also note that many JUCO’s actually do better upon transfer. In fact, one could argue that it’s not just possible, but probable that a guy could come to Texas an perform better given the weapons at their disposal.
Last, even if these two assumptions are true, the disparity in production is still substantially large enough between Ash/McCoy and a JUCO transfer to still warrant consideration. That is, Ash in particular would have to make a dramatic improvement in both TD % and INT% to compare to Crist’s 2010 numbers.
First off,
Crist is not a JUCO player. There is a distinct difference between somebody playing D1 football and somebody playing in the NJCAA.
As stated above (with stats), Crist is no better than Gilbert was.
As for the assumptions I’m making, well, you are right on one of them. But on the other you aren’t. I don’t think a JUCO transfer would necessarily regress, but that none of the options out there are GOOD ENOUGH to play for us. None know our offense, none have worked with our coaches. It’s not an issue of “regression”, it’s an issue of “progression”.
Honestly, if you think a true JUCO QB is gonna come in here and progress more than Ash will next year, you are wrong. (I’ve given up on Case, btw) I would say your assumption that a person playing in the NJCAA could come in here and progress more than Ash is WAY more risk then Ash getting better this offseason.
Think about what you’re risking. You are taking snaps away from Ash by bringing in an unproven unknown with no knowledge of our system, and you expect him to start day one. I’ll take the risk that Ash progresses this offseason, thank you.
Give me an example of a JUCO that played better when they transferred and I will tell you that you found a huge exception to the actuality of JUCO players and JUCO QBs especially.
And as for your last point, the disparity you are noting is for this year’s production. Any improvement from Ash will be dramatic, and I will take that over some fly-by-the-wind JUCO/transfer.
By the way, I will warn you, don’t be too immersed in statistics. I have ND friends, and to them it was obvious Crist wasn’t a winner and was definitely not a leader. I mean, look at Rees (the guy who replaced Crist), his numbers are nothing to write home about. Isn’t that fishy to you?
This.
All I was saying.
Hook 'em! @michaelpelech10 on Twitter
by The Audit Horn on Dec 6, 2011 3:27 PM CST via mobile up reply actions
Re:
As stated above (with stats), Crist is no better than Gilbert was.
Seriously? As I noted above:
Crist: TD% – 5.1% INT% – 2.3%That is dramatically different.
Gilbert: TD% – 2.2% INT% – 3.8%
Ash: TD % – 2% INT% – 5.3%
Honestly, if you think a true JUCO QB is gonna come in here and progress more than Ash will next year, you are wrong.
I suppose I should have removed the JUCO acronym from my point. I’m interested in exploring Katz/Crist. I suspect that doesn’t change your position, though.
So I can make sure we’re on the same page, do all your points about JUCO above apply to Katz/Crist as well?
There is a bit more upside and a bit less risk
going the Katz/Crist route, but there’s a reason they didn’t pan out at Oregon State and Notre Dame, respectively. And those schools are not The University of Texas. No, I’m not trying to be arrogant, just saying that I’ll take a young QB with upside who knows the offense, is familiar with the players, and knows the coaches over an unproven unknown like Katz/Crist.
What year are you choosing for Crist’s numbers? When he was a Sophomore? Junior? That’s two and 3 years older than Ash is now. Remember Crist sat for a year. He had all the benefits that Ash should’ve had. Good team around him, good scheme on offense, etc etc. But he didn’t produce. Again, stats are important but may be misleading.
by 40A on Dec 6, 2011 4:30 PM CST up reply actions
Re:
There is a bit more upside and a bit less risk going the Katz/Crist route, but there’s a reason they didn’t pan out at Oregon State and Notre Dame, respectively.
This assumes that I’m looking for “good” quarterback. I’m not. I just want average-above average for ONE year. It’s a total stop gap.
Like you, I don’t think Case is the answer. Yet, Ash was even worse this year. My hope is that it’s just youth, but nothing I saw this year gives me the warm fuzzies that I’m going to wake up in 9 months and Ash (who has a 2.66:1 INT:TD ratio) is going to suddenly have a positive TD:INT ratio…which is all I’m looking for.
So, the points about Crist/Katz not cutting it are all true. I don’t dispute that. The distinction to be made is that I’m not looking to upgrade from average to elite. I just want to move from bad to average. Best case, Ash develops and can be that guy. There’s no question that’s what would be best for the program. But, I think it’s at least worth considering that Ash may not progress to just average in one year.
I have serious concerns that we are going to squander an otherwise well rounded/talented team because we are still lost at the QB position. Even worse, if Ash struggles, I shudder to think about Harsin being forced to put in Brewer as a true frosh and starting this whole cycle over again.
What year are you choosing for Crist’s numbers? When he was a Sophomore? Junior? That’s two and 3 years older than Ash is now.
Junior year. And, there’s no question that Ash could progress. I just want a backup plan. Not exploring either Katz or Crist effectively means we’re committed to hitching our wagon to Ash and that absolutely terrifies me.
Fair enough.
But bringing in a JUCO/graduate would not be a “backup plan”. Anybody that transfers in is going to be the guy or else why would they come here?
by 40A on Dec 6, 2011 5:26 PM CST up reply actions
A quarterback that watches the McAsh tape this year and then worries about his ability to win the job is not one we want anyways.
I believe that if Texas offered either of these guys, then it’s a huge indication that the job is very ‘winnable’ for the incoming prospect as the bowl practices probably gave an indication that we’re beyond repair and the job could be easily won by a competent QB with veteran experience. Most of that would probably be conveyed to the prospect and they can make the decision at that point.
Fair enough.
There’s ZERO chance they will bring in a transfer but you bring up valid points.
by 40A on Dec 7, 2011 1:20 PM CST up reply actions
Also, remember Crist didn't really play much as a Sophomore
either behind Clausen.
by 40A on Dec 6, 2011 4:32 PM CST up reply actions
QB's should have been Red shirted
With the use of Red shirts in the past and this year, could have looked like this
2011 season
GG- Red shirt sophmore
McCoy- True sophmore (back up)
Floyd (back up)
Ash- Red shirted
As Gilbert, Ash, and McCoy starting this year there numbers are horrible, but just think about if they had been given another year to GROW! Ash would have a whole year to mature and learn the system before even losing a year. Again the numbers are bad as a junior, soph, and frosh. But not so bad for a couple of sophmores and a guy sitting for a red shirt.
Yep not sure why Gilbert wasn't the emergency QB in '09
and allowed to RS and backup given to Sherrod Harris. Can’t imagine Harris doing much worse in that MNC, especially the first half.
"If crime was justified by need it would be the occupation of the masses."- Chief Gillespie
Harris was slighted
about a billion times in his career.
by 40A on Dec 7, 2011 1:21 PM CST up reply actions
Absolutely
I really think he got the shaft in the BCS championship game, if not the entire season. I can understand why the guy didn’t feel the need to stick around for 2010.
"Anti-intellectualism has been a constant thread winding its way through our political and cultural life, nurtured by the false notion that democracy means that 'my ignorance is just as good as your knowledge.'"
― Isaac Asimov
by burntorangehorn on Dec 8, 2011 4:55 PM CST up reply actions
Can't agree more.
When GG trotted out there I was beside myself.
by 40A on Dec 9, 2011 9:46 AM CST up reply actions
I hate saying this, because I want DGB so bad
But if I am the HC of Texas, I look at what’s coming back next year, my stellar recruiting class, my wart of a QB situation and I tell my coaches here is what I want – teach my QB to hand the ball off, hand the ball off, hand the ball off and every now and then throw a short pass.
We will win 10 games in the weaker Big 12 next year!
Proud of your offense? Manny badger don't give a shit!
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