Was our Defense overrated?
by SwimTexas on Dec 5, 2011 12:29 PM CST
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According to this guy it was.
"In seven plays, the accolades that had piled up for Texas' defense came to a crashing halt.
That's how long it took for a good offense to expose what was either an overrated or unmotivated defense by putting up two quick-strike touchdowns.
Since the latter isn't all that plausible considering this was the last regular season game for several seniors and it was against a team that embarrassed Texas year ago, the only logical conclusion to draw is that the Texas defense is not as good as suspected."
I disagree. Why this reasoning is flawed.....
It leaves out conclusion number III. Robert Griffin III.
The gameplan was clear and even talked about before the game. Controlled rushing attack to limit running lanes for Griffin. Problem there is that this defense is predicated on pressure causing mistakes. Controlled pressure to manage a mobile QB doesn't cause mistakes.
Griffin, to his credit, played like a Heisman winner. He handled our defense well. The plan didn't work. - It reminded me of how people used to play VY. Rush him, and he runs around. Lay back and he is good enough to throw all day. And when you manage to cover both, he is creative enough to make something from nothing. We just don't play that way.
And peter called it - "maybe the scariest thing of all: our defense could play well and still allow 30 points."
Well, we did not have the offense to match Baylor for 4 quarters (Man, that hurts to say!)
I would love to dive into the statistics to prove this, but with finals around the corner, I can't. But I do think that our defense was elite this year. Top 5 in the country, IMO. I think we showed that in almost every game this season. Just don't think our scheme for the Baylor game was effective.
And Griffin was just amazing.
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Those who actually watched Griffin play
Would have known the matchup problems he posed for our defense. I wish our defense played better, but we all knew that a defensive performance that we saw against the Aggies was incredibly unlikely. We needed our offense to punish that bad Baylor defense, but they imploded after the first 25 minutes.
With six turnovers, giving up 48 points to that great offense sounds about right. Unless Griffin simply had an off night, there was no way we were going to keep him off the board.
by TheElusiveShadow on Dec 5, 2011 1:12 PM CST reply actions
Agreed, more a product of our offense's ineptitude
Six turnovers is beyond ridiculous and the interceptions at the end of the first half and on the 2nd drive of 2nd half were absolutely killed us.
One thing I will criticize our defense for is allowing the early deep balls. It’s not like we didn’t know RGIII could throw.
And I swear I heard Griffin interviewed on the ESPN Bowl Selection show last night saying something to the effect of, “UT’s defense said we couldn’t throw over the top on them, but we did it in the first two plays…”
If true, I’d like to know who was running his mouth because that was dumb.
@longhorn54b
by 54b on Dec 5, 2011 1:25 PM CST up reply actions
" It’s not like we didn’t know RGIII could throw."
Did anyone tell Gideon/Scott. They got exposed in a big way. Is Gideon hurt? He looked really tentative.
by LonghorninRaiderland on Dec 5, 2011 1:37 PM CST up reply actions
Of all people Acho was talking shit all week prior to the game. It shocked me...
“RGIII is not going to get any heisman votes on our watch. He hasn’t seen a defense as good as ours…”
by Hook Em Horns on Dec 5, 2011 2:59 PM CST up reply actions
Seriously?
Talking shit? Do you even know what talking shit really is?
That’s called confidence, son. Its something a leader portrays.
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SECede?....Whoop(s)!!
I thought the D actually played pretty well...
They were put in a couple of tought situations, especially with RGIII as QB, after 2 Int’s giving them the ball on the 2 yd line and the 11 yd line. Game could have gotten out of hand after the first two BU series but the D stepped up and we ran off 21 pts and were about to go into half with the lead before McCoy threw the pick on the out route. We were actually moving the ball at that point and felt as though we were going to score again before half.
I felt like that pick before the half rattled Case. Before that he looked like a confident, “heady” QB who was standing in the pocket,making the right reads/throws, and really “heady” plays like the lateral to Hills to pick up a 1st down. After the INT he looked like the same old Case forcing throws, making horrible reads, and bailing out too quickly which caused him to throw too many off balance throws and Baylor actually made him pay for that this time. RGIII gave us a little taste of what VY used to do to defenses.
by LonghorninRaiderland on Dec 5, 2011 1:27 PM CST reply actions
You're right. This is the way people felt like after playing against Vince.
I won’t place all the blame on Gideon & Scott for this. They were bad but there was plenty of blame to go around. The edge rushers repeatedly let RG3 out of containment to extend plays, Vaccarro & the LBs were out of position many times in the game, and the team couldn’t stop getting penalized. However …
This Texas Defense is still very solid – one of the very best in the country – and they are very young. As similar as to what happened in the sooner game, the D was repeatedly put into terrible situations that not even the ‘85 Bears could have pulled themselves out of. Two turning points in the game: Case-to-Marquis TD pass was the first; Case-to-Baylor DB pick 6 was the second. It was over after that. Case learned, early on, that he could shred the Baylor defense – and both he AND the coaches got cocky. Up 21-17, with 1+ minute to play, Case then throws the out-route that gets picked. Momentum capitulation – Game over. The Texas offense gave up 1 pick 6, 2 long INT returns, dropped 1 TD pass, fumbled once on the goal line, were without it’s top 3 RBs, and was playing a very young QB. The defense simply couldn’t overcome all of that. Had the offense simply held onto the ball and played field position for the final 32 minues of the game, it’s very likely that Texas could have won this game.
You don't win games with 6 turnovers
Our D got burned deep by Griffin at least 3 times, and I was disappointed in our coverage even by our corners.
That being said, Griffin makes you look bad. Baylor literally may have the top offense in the country right now.
It’s really hard to say what the net result is.
Do you really believe that? Tammy hung 55 on em and held the "#1 offense to 28"...OK Lite hung 59 on em and held the "#1 offense to 24 pts?"
by Hook Em Horns on Dec 5, 2011 7:30 PM CST up reply actions
I missed the part where A&M turned the ball over six times
Baylor has the #2 YPP and #2 YPG in the country, right behind Houston, and they have played against better competition.
In the A&M game Baylor still threw for 430 yards, breaking the school record for passing in a single game.
Please tell me about how the number of points A&M or OSU “hanging” on Baylor has anything to do with Baylor’s offense.
The offensive production in both of those games
is as important a factor as the defense. Those offenses hung 50+ points. Thus Baylor had to play differently, and the opposing defenses could play differently – safe and deep. A good strategy.
Because our offense put up bupkus, and turned the ball over so much giving short fields, Baylor had all the options in the world, and our defense had to be agressive and try to force the issue. Not a good strategy.
"A lot of people look for the easy way to do anything, in swimming there is no easy way." - Eddie Reese
Overall No.
But the D had a bad game against Baylor. I think without the TO’s giving Baylor easy opportunities to score, the D gave up 21-24 “legitimate” pts to Baylor which is pretty good when you consider Baylor probably has the #1 offense in the nation right now.
Disappointed the most in the fact that our D was built to prevent long quick strike pass plays over the top and we got toasted 3 times. Diaz can only scheme to a certain point to protect our poor safety play when Baylor has track stars as WR’s and a QB that probably throws the best deep ball in the nation.
Anyway, i heard this removed a lot of shine off Diaz’s name for some HC positions so in that case, i’m happy. Can’t wait to see Thompson and perhaps Phillips (or Vacarro if he stays) playing safety next year. With Byndom and Diggs returning, we will have a pretty good secondary next yr
In my instance, "our" means the school from which I attended and graduated...McCombs School of Business, Class of 1996
The school from which my father and his father before him graduated. The school from which my favorite nephew just graduated.
The school which I have been a booster since 1999.
Our team.
I thinking I in fact do have a fairly decent working knowledge of the word “our”.
Where do you buy your tee shirts?
Hook Em Horns!!!
by Hook Em Horns on Dec 9, 2011 1:27 PM CST up reply actions 1 recs
from the co-op...
…I graduated from UT so calm down on the “t-shirt fan” business. Just b/c you’re a booster doesn’t mean you’re better than anybody. If you had expectations of a 10-win season or something of the sort, you were foolish. You don’t back the team like “fans” should. Everything I’ve read from you (or your aliases) just condemns the teams for not being the 10-win team you’ve grown accustomed to. I won’t be mean and call you names even though I could think of some. Hook ’em!
by vy til i die on Dec 11, 2011 11:46 PM CST up reply actions
Our defense is still fantastic overall
but our weakest link was clearly the safety position with Gideon and Scott. We were fortunate that we didn’t face any dual-threat QBs that could pick us apart… until we ran into RGIII.
Whoever says our defense is overrated needs to rewatch the K-State, A&M, and Mizzou game. Oh, and didn’t OSU have their worse offensive game against us?
by goingforthecorner on Dec 5, 2011 7:39 PM CST reply actions
Add Tech to that list.
They finished the season terribly but they were still scoring points (except Iowa St.) on teams and we shut em down.
"If crime was justified by need it would be the occupation of the masses."- Chief Gillespie
Footballoutsiders' statistics
Says Texas is a top 10 team on defense.
by goingforthecorner on Dec 5, 2011 7:57 PM CST reply actions
I thinking consistency is keeping us from being a Top 5 or Top 3 defense
We seem to have trouble putting the whole “package” together at once, we just caught a glimpse of it at the A&M game.
That and a whole shitload of short fields.
If we can start here and build on it through next year, we should be looking at some Top 5 or Top 3 defense.
Actually, that’s #9 for
S＆P+ Ratings. Football Outsiders’ FEI Ratings #10. The combination, known as Combined F/+ Ratings, has Texas #5.
"The same things win today that have always won, and they will win years from now. The only difference is the losers have a whole new bunch of excuses why they don’t win or can’t win."-Bear Bryant
Robot Chicken Star Wars should be canon.
by the thin red line on Dec 11, 2011 3:56 AM CST up reply actions
no
our defense is legit.
"Slammed that hoe on the counter like I just got 35 on the domino table!!"
Sherrod Harris
our D is legit
they are a dominate unit but our offense continues to put them in bad spots over and over and over and over. plus we keep turning the ball over to the other team and eventually even the best defense will get tired and the guys wont be running as fast as they were and they’ll get beat. which is why i was surprised to see us try to throw it 40 times instead of trying to run it a lot more and keep our defense fresh
In The Morning To You
also Bryan Harsin called several horrid plays like that route that got picked at the end of the half
with Case’s arm strength and mechanics that was a pic waiting to happen and it did and that gave Baylor the ball inside our 5 the D was put in a bunch of bad spots
In The Morning To You
I wouldn't say our defense is overrated
but I agree with his title that our defense lacks consistency. We all know that our safeties lack top end speed and that showed up big time against Baylor. Jesse Palmer has repeatedly compared our defense to LSU and Alabama and I would guarantee the big advantage their defense’s have over us is speed on the last line. No way I see LSU giving up that many points or big plays to Baylor. We don’t have any safeties, at least not starting, with Earl Thomas like speed. And that showed it’s ugly head in a big way Saturday.
"If crime was justified by need it would be the occupation of the masses."- Chief Gillespie
Finally able to talk about it.
Been so pissed I had to hold my tongue. From my recliner, it looked like RGIII was a little tentative toward running the ball. Maybe because he didn’t have to, or maybe because of the concussion. Anybody else get that feeling? I also think that the way RGIII carved up our corners with the shorter passes after halftime was maybe because our corners were afraid to stay up in coverage after the safties let ‘em down early. In my opinion the wheels started to fall off due to the O line drawing flag after flag and putting us in must pass downs. I love me some K. Vaccaro, but where was he? Only heard his name called 1 time. Sure hope he stays another year, we will need him to be a force if we are going to field a top 5 D next year, we don’t need to be breaking in another safety. RGIII is a great player, and would have been fun to see him in the burnt orange, but on some of his deep throws I beleive a good free safety would have been there to knock a few down. That was what was so disappointing to me, his throws seemed to hang in the air forever, but we couldn’t get to them in time. I was actually more impressed with how accurate some of his shorter throws were. And his footwork in the pocket every time we got the slightest pressure. Would be fun to watch him against LSU D. They get pressure anytime they want without blitz, and this would leave 3 or 4 to contain his runs. On the subject of ranking our D. I love the Horns, but had to chuckle when I heard comparisons of our D being maybe as good as LSU or Bama. We ain’t there yet, and wasn’t there before RGIII shredded us. Somebody needs to take off their Burnt Orange glasses if they believe that. Maybe soon, if Manny stays and gets a few more pieces. Gotta stop the stupid penalties and turnovers, NO defense can overcome bushels of mistakes on by it’s own offense. And by bushels I’m talking 10 or 12. One last thought, does Dorsey look like he is always destroying the pocket when he is in? If so why not more playing time? Hook ’Em
Baylor attacked our safties
and they did not respond well. That is one area the the team needs to improve but RGIII did that to everyone. If he had any part of a defense, Baylor could have easily won the national championship.
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