Texas Recruiting 2012: Defensive End Big Board

by Wescott Eberts (GoBR) on Feb 10, 2011 3:34 PM CST in Texas Longhorns Recruiting

Needs -- Two or three

Name	School	JD invite?	Offer?	Commitment/ odds	Favorites	Quick take
Mario Edwards	Denton Ryan	Feb. 13 (will not attend)	Might have offer, otherwise no-brainer	5%	Texas Florida State	Possibly the best player in the state, the 6-5, 260-pound Edwards is an elite athlete at his position and solid technically for his age. Video. Only planned visit this spring is to Florida State, his current leader and his father's alma mater.
Hassan Ridgeway	Mansfield	Feb. 13	Possible (as DE)	85%	Texas LSU Texas A&M TCU	Also on the TE Big Board, but mostly as filler there. Young for his class and his coach believes he has some physical upside left. Good athlete. Video. Plans on committing soon.
Caleb Bluiett	Beaumont West Brook	Feb. 26	Possible	?	?	Well, Scout says he's quick. And Rivals says he's 6-3, 235. So there ya go.
Michael Richardson	DeSoto	Feb. 26	Unlikely	15%	Texas Oklahoma Oklahoma State Texas A&M Texas Tech Tennessee	Explosive athlete who can change direction well, but undersized at 6-2, 230. Video. Projects better as a Buck end like Dravannti Johnson than as a pure 4-3 DE. Reportedly an excellent student.
Eric Davis	Tyler John Tyler	No	N/A	N/A	Texas LSU Oklahoma Oklahoma State Texas A&M	As quick as Richardson, but with better size at 6-3, 240. Seems like a take based on his combination of size and athleticism, so it's strange he doesn't have Junior Day invite.

Names to know -- Victor Irokansi (Pflugerville Hendrickson), Devonte Fields (Arlington Martin), Kyndahl Hill (Humble)

Overview -- Defensive end is one of the more difficult positions to predict in the class, partly because there isn't a ton of fantastic talent out there and partly because the top player on the board, Mario Edwards, looks like a heavy Florida State lean at this point. If there's any good news with him, it's that he's planning on making his announcement at whichever post-season All-Star game he attends. So at least the Longhorns may have some time to make up ground with him. The key is getting him to campus for the spring game, a summer camp, or in the fall for a game and/or official visit. At that point, Texas might have a shot.

After Edwards, it's not even clear that there's an obvious offer here. Bruce Chambers has been in on Ridgeway for some time now and he could be a pretty easy to get to commit. And other than Ridgeway, the only guy with a clear invite is Richardson, with Bluiett unconfirmed at this point.

Like defensive tackle, offensive line, and tight end, defensive end might be another position where the Longhorns have to wait and further evaluate some players and decide who they really want in the class. It doesn't seem to be worth taking a defensive end at one of the Junior Days just to have a commitment at the position, does it?

Wish-y/Watch List

Wish list --

Mario Edwards
Eric Davis
Unknown late-rising star

This is a difficult wish list to put together right now, particularly because there's barely anything to know about Puiett except that he may be attending the second Junior Day and Texas might not even be interested in the second player on this list.

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Comments

How do you feel about Hassan? He's shooting up the boards

by TowerPower on Feb 10, 2011 4:00 PM CST reply actions

Not much in the way of highlights

Reading an interview with his coach sold me on him a little bit, but I think his coach did a good sales job as well. Haven’t seen enough of him on film to make a final judgment.

Follow me on Twitter: @GhostofBigRoy
www.burntorangenation.com

by Wescott Eberts (GoBR) on Feb 10, 2011 4:02 PM CST up reply actions

I was wondering...

mostly I get raw stats that are good but not WOW…A&M offered him already I think.

by TowerPower on Feb 10, 2011 4:11 PM CST up reply actions

Edwards and FSU

Why doesn’t he just commit to them already?

by Longhorns84 on Feb 10, 2011 4:17 PM CST reply actions

we are not 95% sure he is going to FSU

by 93noleman on Feb 12, 2011 6:47 PM CST up reply actions

GOBR your thoughts on OOS DEs

Jelani Hamilton from Florida and Jeff Savage from Arkie are 2 names that have mentioned? I would assume if either could make to it campus that Texas might interested.

Savage might grow out of the DE position, but Hamilton looks like a stud DE in college.

I’m also surprised that Eric Davis doesn’t have JD invite.

I don’t think Texas needs another DE/TE hybrid, see Jones, Dominique. I hope Ridgeway doesn’t get an offer unless Texas wants to play him at DE.

Agreed Texas needs to slow play, and evaluate DEs going into and during their senior seasons.

Mario Edwards’ long recruitment does bode well for Texas. Bo, Oscar, Manny and Mack need to put in work on the Edwards camp. Get Mario down for a visit.

by billfromlaketravis on Feb 10, 2011 6:44 PM CST reply actions

Hamilton looks good.

He’s not Jadaveon Clowney, but he’s probably better than anyone else in Texas not named Mario Edwards. Like any kid, I think he would probably have to make it into town before getting an offer or make it to at least prove that he’s interested.

Wasn’t able to find any film on Savage, so I don’t really know anything about him other than the little blurb that Jeff Howe did the other day.

Follow me on Twitter: @GhostofBigRoy
www.burntorangenation.com

by Wescott Eberts (GoBR) on Feb 10, 2011 7:35 PM CST up reply actions

GoBR,

On the one hand, I guess the wait and see approach helps if anyone blows up next season, and if no one does, I guess it reinforces a move to a 3-4 as a base defense.

If that switch happens, does it make future recruiting easier as you don’t necessarily need elite speed at the DE position, or does it make recruiting harder as you need to find the right NT and several great LBs/ATHs every year?

Or, do we simply take a smaller class this year if no one stands out at the DE or TE positions?

by UTLawGrad on Feb 10, 2011 8:18 PM CST reply actions

Re: 4-3 vs. 3-4

I kind of go back and forth about that. On one hand, it is hard to find a really good two-gap DT to play the nose. On the other, it probably is easier to find the five tech DEs and the 3-4 OLBs because you don’t have to have the combination of size and speed on the edge, you can play those swing guys who may not have the burst off the edge — like Nathan Hughes, say — and then take the 3-4 OLB who is rangy, but doesn’t have the size to take on OTs all the time in the running game. In the end, I think it’s a tradeoff, but I do feel like Texas may be moving in the direction of playing with three down linemen next year and possibly a little more into the future.

Follow me on Twitter: @GhostofBigRoy
www.burntorangenation.com

by Wescott Eberts (GoBR) on Feb 10, 2011 8:44 PM CST up reply actions

Malcolm Brown will be a good NG for A&M

Desmond Jackson is the ideal NG. Would be shocked if he is not starting next to Randall in the 4th or 5th game. Problem really isn’t identifying NGs, it is convincing them to play in the scheme in college. The success of 3-4 defenses in the NFL helps with that now though.

by miketag on Feb 11, 2011 9:58 AM CST up reply actions

Desmond Jackson is not a NG!

He is 6’1 290 and his fram is almost filled out. On top of that, his play has shown that he is more of a penetrator and not a space eater that takes on double teams. Now, is that to say he couldn’t play NG? No. He could. However, he would be most effective at the 3.

"I want to be remembered as the guy who gave his all whenever he was on the field."
-Walter Payton

by CoachEtch on Feb 11, 2011 10:12 AM CST up reply actions

My god you

Simply refuse to accept that you are and were wrong about Jackson (not to mention Brown now), don’t you?

by GoHornsGo90 on Feb 11, 2011 10:32 AM CST up reply actions

Consider the source. nt whills

"I want to be remembered as the guy who gave his all whenever he was on the field."
-Walter Payton

by CoachEtch on Feb 11, 2011 12:56 PM CST up reply actions

so you think

6’1 290 is not big enough to be an effective NG? The best NG’s are the ones who get penetration.

by miketag on Feb 11, 2011 1:15 PM CST up reply actions

I have to admit that I'm surprised to see 6'1"-6'2" characterized as undersized

Casey Hampton was a pretty awesome nose with very similar dimensions—possibly shorter, in fact. Glenn Dorsey is generously listed at 6’1", I believe. If Jackson and Brown are truly 6’1" or taller, they really don’t have anything to worry about size-wise, except adding the natural weight that college linemen are expected to gain. The bigger concern is making best use of their skill sets.

Just Harsin around.

by burntorangehorn on Feb 11, 2011 1:59 PM CST up reply actions

It's not so much the height

as it is the players height that gives his frame the ability to carry more weight.

Glenn Dorsey is a 3-4 End for the Chiefs. He isn’t a NG. Casey Hampton is also generously listed at 325 on the Steelers website. If you believe that I have some ocean front property in Arizona to sell you.

The bigger concern is making best use of their skill sets.

We are on the same page, here, and that is my point with Desmond Jackson. As I said, he could play NG. However, is that the place where he could most infuence a game? I don’t think so.

"I want to be remembered as the guy who gave his all whenever he was on the field."
-Walter Payton

by CoachEtch on Feb 11, 2011 2:22 PM CST up reply actions

Dorsey did not play end in college

And frankly, at this point, I don’t care what position Malcom Brown or Desmond Jackson plays in the NFL. I care about where they contribute at Texas.

Just Harsin around.

by burntorangehorn on Feb 11, 2011 7:42 PM CST up reply actions

I understand

but Dorsey was also 6’2, 315 during his LSU days. He also played a lot of 3 as well as nose. In fact, and although I can’t prove it. I bet he played more nose in pass situations.

Again, my point is where would they be most effective. Des Jackson looks to be much more effective as a 3 and I haven’t watched film on Malcolm Brown to pass judgment. I am just going off what is traditionally successful at those positions and where I think his talents can be best used.

"I want to be remembered as the guy who gave his all whenever he was on the field."
-Walter Payton

by CoachEtch on Feb 11, 2011 8:23 PM CST up reply actions

Dorsey is 6'1"

He played nose as much as I can remember. Wroten played 3T, as I recall.

Just Harsin around.

by burntorangehorn on Feb 11, 2011 9:33 PM CST up reply actions

6'1, 6'2 whatever

Needless to say, you are listing one example in which the best player in college football in that respective year played nose guard who could penetrate and make plays in the backfield. He hardly counts for the nose guard position as a whole.

"I want to be remembered as the guy who gave his all whenever he was on the field."
-Walter Payton

by CoachEtch on Feb 11, 2011 11:33 PM CST up reply actions

What about Casey Hampton?

Vince Wilfork?

There are countless examples of great noses who are 6’2" or under.

Just Harsin around.

by burntorangehorn on Feb 12, 2011 11:24 AM CST up reply actions

Again

you are concentrated solely on height and not on frame. No one is going to argue that Wilfork and Hampton are explosive tackles, either. They are space eaters. GoBR, myself and many others, including Rivals, say that Jackson’s frame is nearly maxed out. If he were to keep adding weight he would lose the explosiveness that makes him an exceptional player.

"I want to be remembered as the guy who gave his all whenever he was on the field."
-Walter Payton

by CoachEtch on Feb 12, 2011 12:51 PM CST up reply actions

I always thought of Hampton as a great penetrator in college

He always seemed to knock the center into the backfield. I haven’t watched Jackson play, so I have no idea about him.

Just Harsin around.

by burntorangehorn on Feb 12, 2011 12:58 PM CST up reply actions

This from Matt Miller

of New Era Scouting.

One thing that I have learned from my time working with and for NFL teams is that you draft for your scheme. With that in mind, where does Glenn Dorsey play in a 3-4? He has no experience as nose tackle, and is not built to be an end in this defense. The Jets are building a defense based on the Patriots 34, in knowing this, who does Dorsey compare to? He’s not the tall, thick end that Richard Seymour and Ty Warren are. He’s no Vince Wilfork either.

Glenn Dorsey is a three-technique tackle, at best when he’s splitting a double team and man-handling guards. Putting him over the center is wasting his talent, and it’s asking him to be a run-stopper when he is not. Dorsey is a penetrator, not a hole plugger. The up-side to this pick is that Dorsey is one hell of a player. He may not be conventional, but it is hard to ignore his overall talent.

"I want to be remembered as the guy who gave his all whenever he was on the field."
-Walter Payton

by CoachEtch on Feb 11, 2011 11:39 PM CST up reply actions

And he's incorrect if he's basing that on Dorsey's entire career

At the NFL level? Yes, he’d be correct. And Dorsey never played nose in a 3-4 defense. But he was not the under tackle at LSU.

Just Harsin around.

by burntorangehorn on Feb 12, 2011 11:25 AM CST up reply actions

And there is a difference between a 3-4

and 4-3 nose tackle. Add in scheme and philosophy and those differences become much more vast. Des Jackson is not most effective as a nose guard in either scheme. That much should be agreeable.

"I want to be remembered as the guy who gave his all whenever he was on the field."
-Walter Payton

by CoachEtch on Feb 12, 2011 12:56 PM CST up reply actions

Agreeable, probably, among those of you who have seen him

However, my whole thing was the argument about size. 6’1" and 6’2" are not undersized for the position.

Just Harsin around.

by burntorangehorn on Feb 12, 2011 12:59 PM CST up reply actions

He gets it

You are saying the exact same thing every single post without listening to what he’s saying. Height is only important because it generally gives you a better chance of having a large frame. The fact that a few DTs have the frame at an undersized height is an exception. Most are taller because it usually gives you a bigger frame. Nobody is arguing that height is the most important factor…

by GoHornsGo90 on Feb 12, 2011 4:14 PM CST up reply actions

As Etch obviously knows, height is more than that

It’s pretty hard for a 6’5" guy to get low. Very few can accomplish it. I thought it was almost conventional wisdom that it’s better for a nose to be 6’2" than 6’5".

Just Harsin around.

by burntorangehorn on Feb 12, 2011 7:20 PM CST up reply actions

Height doesn't have anything to do with

getting low or playing with leverage. Hip, knee, and ankle flexibility do. A 5’10 nose guard could play with no leverage and in essence play higher than a 6’5 nose guard. The difference of 4 inches does not have as near as much to do with leverage as does knee and hip flexibility. However, that 4 inches is valuable in batting down passes at the line, something a 6’1 or 6’2 player may not be as capable of.

"I want to be remembered as the guy who gave his all whenever he was on the field."
-Walter Payton

by CoachEtch on Feb 12, 2011 10:10 PM CST up reply actions

It's a lot easier for a 6'1" guy to get under a guard

Just Harsin around.

by burntorangehorn on Feb 13, 2011 12:41 AM CST up reply actions

That depends

on if he has good knee and hip flexibility. Again, you are not seeing the forest for the trees on this.

"I want to be remembered as the guy who gave his all whenever he was on the field."
-Walter Payton

by CoachEtch on Feb 13, 2011 4:45 PM CST up reply actions

I think it's the opposite, to be honest

If a 6’1" guy and 6’4" guy have the same knee and hip flexibility, which one’s getting lower?

Just Harsin around.

by burntorangehorn on Feb 14, 2011 8:38 AM CST up reply actions

I understand where you are coming from

But that 3 inches of getting lower i that is indeed the case is more helpful in batting down balls than it is in leverage. Knee and hip felxibility and leverage is something that can be trained into a player. Height isn’t.

"I want to be remembered as the guy who gave his all whenever he was on the field."
-Walter Payton

by CoachEtch on Feb 14, 2011 1:03 PM CST up reply actions

You don't think the physical advantage...

…of being able to get lower than one’s opponent could, every play, is greater than the rare batted ball?

Just Harsin around.

by burntorangehorn on Feb 14, 2011 1:38 PM CST up reply actions

Rare?

Too Tall Jones says “No”.

by robthecob on Feb 14, 2011 5:07 PM CST up reply actions

Leverage is something that can be controlled

height isn’t. I can teach and train a player to come off low and play that way no matter what his height is. I can’t do that with his height.

"I want to be remembered as the guy who gave his all whenever he was on the field."
-Walter Payton

by CoachEtch on Feb 14, 2011 8:39 PM CST up reply actions

Isn't teaching a guy to come off low like teaching a guy to jump high?

Just Harsin around.

by burntorangehorn on Feb 14, 2011 9:09 PM CST up reply actions

You still can't make up the lack in height

"I want to be remembered as the guy who gave his all whenever he was on the field."
-Walter Payton

by CoachEtch on Feb 15, 2011 11:17 AM CST up reply actions

It depends on the defense

if you are talking a 3-4 NG, then absolutely not. 3-4 NG are your guys like Haloti Ngata, Terrence Cody and Vince Wilfork. All guys who are very, very big. They are charged with taking on multiple blockers in order to free up line backers. Rarely are these guys sack leaders.

If you are talking a 4-3 NG, and you are a gap penetration defense then yes, penetration is good from a NG. However, when you are lined up shaded over the center it is very likely that you are going to be double teamed and coaches like more bulk for that position to combat that.

Also, we are talking on two different levels. You are saying effective and I am saying most effective. Jay Ratcliff is an undersized NG and while he had a good season 2 years ago it is easy for him to get eaten up, too.

"I want to be remembered as the guy who gave his all whenever he was on the field."
-Walter Payton

by CoachEtch on Feb 11, 2011 2:17 PM CST up reply actions

To illustrate your point about double teams

This year Texas had a lot of trouble late in the season with offensive linemen getting onto the linebackers really quickly. A lot of it was a result of Kheeston Randall slanting a lot and getting penetration, but when that he was happening, he wasn’t making plays in the backfield and the fact that he wasn’t occupying a double team resulted in a free offensive linemen putting a hat on Keenan Robinson or Emmanuel Acho. Didn’t work out so well for Texas. If you want penetration from your 0/1 tech in a 4-3, you better hope he’s making plays in the backfield or that your linebackers can get off of blocks. I would prefer the 0/1 tech to take on a double team and let the linebacker make plays.

Follow me on Twitter: @GhostofBigRoy
www.burntorangenation.com

by Wescott Eberts (GoBR) on Feb 11, 2011 2:26 PM CST up reply actions

Exactly

I would much rather my d linemen eat up blockers and rely on my linebackers, often the most athletic players on the field, to make plays.

"I want to be remembered as the guy who gave his all whenever he was on the field."
-Walter Payton

by CoachEtch on Feb 11, 2011 2:32 PM CST up reply actions

As far as taking a smaller class

For whatever reason 2013 seems a little more murky than 2012 did at this point, so it’s hard to project, but I would certainly agree with the philosophy of not taking players just to fill up the class. Some way, some how, I think Texas has to find bodies at DE in the 2012 class or find them somewhere internally because the lack of depth there is alarming.

Follow me on Twitter: @GhostofBigRoy
www.burntorangenation.com

by Wescott Eberts (GoBR) on Feb 10, 2011 8:50 PM CST up reply actions

thanks for both answers (and the big boards of course)

by UTLawGrad on Feb 10, 2011 8:57 PM CST up reply actions

seconded

by TowerPower on Feb 10, 2011 9:12 PM CST up reply actions

JUCO's

Why is Texas so adamant about not taking a JUCO guy. When you look at DE/DT we could sure use a ready starter to add into the mix and while I don’t want a roster of Jucos like K-State, why not one or two when needed?

by Wrangler86 on Feb 10, 2011 9:31 PM CST reply actions