Tortious Interference and You: Roadblocks to Texas A&M Joining the SEC
First things first: the press release from the SEC Presidents today does not mean that Texas A&M will never join the SEC. The Aggies could in fact still bolt in the next couple of weeks. What it does do, however, is (a) smack down the eagerness of the Ags a bit (and refutes the ridiculous notion that A&M had any sort of "standing offer" to join the SEC), giving us a lot of material with which to make fun of them (as if we needed more), and (b) force all parties involved to go through all of the motions to make the move happen. Essentially, the SEC is refusing to move on the Aggies' timeline, which may or may not make a difference in the long run, but certainly decreases the chances of A&M leaving the Big 12.
The roadblocks that remain are numerous, including involving the Texas state legislature's Higher Ed Committee, allowing them to outline exactly what is going to happen if A&M leaves on its own. All jokes aside, A&M is a serious educational institution and if there are academic funding repercussions to this move, the faculty will be at Loftin's office door with pitchforks.
Admission of A&M at this point is probably also contingent on the SEC finding a suitable 14th school. There is allegedly a gentleman's agreement between the SEC schools not to add any other teams from an existing SEC state, narrowing the list of available schools. The SEC doesn't need A&M (they're doing just fine on their own), so the inability to find a suitable 14th school could derail the addition of A&M.
And finally, there's this whole tortious interference business that you keep hearing about. Here's what that means:
So, say two parties have entered into a contract. If one party breaches that contract, then the non-breaching party can sue the breaching party under contract law because they have what is called privity of contract. The remedies under that lawsuit are usually limited to the actual loss that the non-breaching party suffered because of the breach (i.e., the remedy in court is to put the non-breaching party in the monetary position it would have been in if the contract hadn't been breached). This is all subject to any agreements for remedies that the parties agreed to in their contract.
So, applying this to our current situation, from all information I have seen, whatever agreement the Big 12 has with its member schools, there seems to be an alternative remedies provision whereby the parties agree ahead of time to a "breakup fee" that a member school has to pay if they breach the contract by leaving the conference under certain circumstances. The number I've been hearing with respect to A&M is approximately $30m.
Now, say two parties have entered into a contract, and then a third party comes along and says to one of the parties "Hey, I've got a better deal for you. I'll give it to you if you breach your current contract." If that party to the contract does breach, then the non-breaching party can sue the breaching party (as described above), but it can't sure the third party under contract law because it does not have privity of contract with that third party.
However, the law nevertheless understands that a wrong has been committed by the third party and thus allows the non-breaching party to sue the third party for "tortious interference" with an existing contract. Tort law is completely separate from contract law, and generally the remedies under torts are not capped at the actual loss suffered by the non-breaching party. Loss of potential future income and punitive damages can be awarded to the non-breaching party, to be paid by the third party.
And this is what the SEC is worried about. The Big 12 has a 13-year, $1 billion TV contract with Fox for its second-tier rights, which was entered into last year (and which "saved" the Big 12). Allegedly, Fox can terminate this agreement if any member leaves the Big 12. So if the SEC effectively encourages Texas A&M to breach its contract with the Big 12, the SEC could be liable under tort law for loss of the $1 billion contract, as well as other potential losses that the Big 12 could suffer (plus potential punitive damages).
Needless to say, the SEC would like to avoid this. Step 1 is obviously not inviting A&M to join the SEC until A&M has already breached its agreement with the Big 12. That's one reason they didn't make an offer today, and it's obviously a reason that Texas A&M did not have a "standing" offer to join the SEC, as many Aggies have absurdly claimed for the past year. However, the fact that the Aggies voted to leave the Big 12 before the SEC invited them does not in and of itself void any tortious interference claim that could be brought against the SEC. There are more ways to tortiously interfere with a contract than this and you can bet that the SEC's lawyers will be spending their time the next few weeks making sure that they're in the clear before admitting A&M.
And while that happens, the Big 12, the Texas Legislature, the SEC schools who don't want a 14th member to come from their home state, and numerous other parties have a chance to make their own moves. If I were a betting man, I'd put money on the Ags eventually making their way to the SEC, but today's events made the odds little bit longer.
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Also, ESPN could conceivably be on the hook for tortious intereference as well
if they’ve inserted themselves into this beyond the rumormongering of their news division. Or maybe one might even be able to argue that their rumormongering is itself tortious interference, although I think the entire legal system might be allergic to actually setting a precedent that prevents a content carrier from also being a news-gathering organization.
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It would be tough, considering ESPN is technically the press.
First Amendment rights run strong, even against torts. Ask Albert Snyder.
Yeah, I realize that.
But it strikes me as somewhat mendacious of our legal system to consider the buying and selling of content to be equivalent to “the press”. Freedom of the press (or, more broadly, freedom of expression) isn’t exactly the same as business arrangements.
And freedom of the press does not, for example, prevent Universal from being sued by one of the record labels it distributes if it interferes with the contract between that label and one of its artists, which is a similar analogy, I think.
The Wiki (I Don't Have a Real Name Yet) -- The Blog (Those Other Guys) -- The Twitter
I totally agree that ESPN could be liable,
but I don’t think the rumormongering can be the reason. Even if they did so specifically for the purpose of causing these problems, that’s going to be a hell of a thing to prove.
If they’re involved beyond the rumors, then they’re not acting as the press. The First Amendment wouldn’t apply.
Oh!
Since I had said I didn’t think you really could make that argument, I thought you were referring to “if they’ve inserted themselves into this beyond etc.”
The Wiki (I Don't Have a Real Name Yet) -- The Blog (Those Other Guys) -- The Twitter
Yeah, I linked that in the other thread right before this got posted.
The Wiki (I Don't Have a Real Name Yet) -- The Blog (Those Other Guys) -- The Twitter
ESPN has done everything in their power over the last few years
to make sure they’re an entertainment venture and not a bastion of journalistic integrity. Consider, The Decision.
Less memorable than Sam Okey's Hawkeye career.
by Kyle McCann't on Aug 15, 2011 2:52 AM CDT up reply actions
What do we gain if we lose our culture
Texas plays A&M, that’s the way it has been, the way we expect it and the way we want it. I’m starting to think this LHN is crazy. Junk it, It’s not worth the Texan way. This idea that we are going to play everyone and be this travelling independent show team is crazy. I don’t want to lose our rivals, a century’s worth of history and the way we do things in the future for $300 Million. The Stoops have a vested interest in the the PAC-16. When this is solved for the long term, we need to solve it for us in a way that keeps what we care about most intact.
by sam0807 on Aug 14, 2011 5:41 PM CDT reply actions 1 recs
Drove away a quarter of the conference?
Teams left on their own accord. And besides that, even if we did “drive away” the conference, do you really think we will be in trouble? We will take our 20 mil from our network and go Indy. And be just fine.
Take it to where? Pac 12?
Good luck traveling to Washington and Oregon. Or maybe go independent if the Big 12 folds? You will be on the outside looking in. Thats why Notre Dame was set to join a conference last year. Once the major conferences start expanding, the independents will have to join a conference or be stuck playing 3rd tier teams.
The best thing UT can do is re-write the contract with other members dividing everything equally. But I doubt that happens. Good luck.
Thats why Notre Dame was set to join a conference last year.
That might be the biggest exaggeration/flat out lie written on this site through all of this, and that’s impressive keeping in mind that we’ve been dealing with Aggies constantly.
There is so much beauty because life can be so symmetrical that it gives birth to this almost silent poetry . . . (like) a girl who's terrible at grammar saying, "Mama, you raised me good," and then being pushed down a well . . .
I suggest you do a little research.
They were in talks and looked to probably be headed to the Big 10. The writing is on the wall if everyone goes to 16. Again, who would the independents play? And the statement has nothing to do with the Aggies. UT will ultimately do whats best for UT, as they always have. But going independent won’t be an option. Once again, who would they play? Out of conference games will be a thing of the past if the major conferences go to 16.
I suggest you do the same
Or at the very least choose your words more carefully. Set to join a conference is way different that positioning themselves to get into a conference to protect themselves when superconferences form. It’s been made perfectly clear that the Notre Dame alumni, as well as the administration, will cling to their independence as long as they can possibly can and will leave money on the table (See: Big Ten schools get 22m a year v. Notre Dame’s 9m-12m [I can’t remember the exact number off the top of my head]). There’s a big difference from positioning yourself in case change occurs and being “set” to join the Big 10. Obviously, scheduling is screwed for independents if superconferences form.
There is so much beauty because life can be so symmetrical that it gives birth to this almost silent poetry . . . (like) a girl who's terrible at grammar saying, "Mama, you raised me good," and then being pushed down a well . . .
So exactly what part of my statement are you arguing with?????
My wording? Normally when you respond to a post you either agree or disagree and leave an explanation of why. Yours first reply says you disagree and your second says you agree except for the wording I use to make my point.
So which is it? Sounds like your arguing for the sake of making an argument.
Either way, I am correct and its far from a lie. Try looking into Notre Dame president and chancellor statements about joining a conference if the expansion were to start across the board. And its only a matter of time.
I'm not arguing with any of your main points
Notre Dame was far from set from joining a conference last year. Maybe you meant differently, but the words you choose are incredibly important when framing such a premise.
There is so much beauty because life can be so symmetrical that it gives birth to this almost silent poetry . . . (like) a girl who's terrible at grammar saying, "Mama, you raised me good," and then being pushed down a well . . .
But, calm down buddy.
Have a drink, make some friends, and stay for a while. In order to accept an argument one has to accept the premises first, then accept the ultimate conclusion. I think the wording of that particular premise was important. It’s what jumped out at me. Maybe someone else would think otherwise, but that premise I just couldn’t accept, and I responded accordingly. No reason to be throwing out intensive punctuation and the like. We’re all friends here (even if we’re not). Cheers!
There is so much beauty because life can be so symmetrical that it gives birth to this almost silent poetry . . . (like) a girl who's terrible at grammar saying, "Mama, you raised me good," and then being pushed down a well . . .
Free Enterprise
It’s the American way. No tears here.
Every University in the Big 12 (before Big 12-2) (and everyone else for that matter) had/have the same opportunities to make the move to leverage their athletic departments to their best advantage. Whether they had/have the leadership, vision, skill, etc. to pursue all opportunities is another discussion.
The schools that walked did so of their own free will. They all had multiple choices (stay, go, start a TV channel, etc.) and decided to make the choice that lead them to another conference. They made the choice. No one forced them to leave. They decided it was in their best interest to leave. So be it.
Its not about the network.
The Aggies would leave even if we trashed the network which we can’t do anyway. The ags are just using it as an excuse so it looks like ut broke up the conference.
by Horn Hooker on Aug 14, 2011 5:56 PM CDT via mobile up reply actions
Are ou joking or just a troll?
You would seriously give up $300m and the LHN to keep on playing little brother ?
Should Texas be sorry
for trying to better itself by pursuing their own network? Absolutely not. Florida has theirs, so does Notre Dame.
If atm wants to be all butt hurt, that’s their own decision. It’s been said before they are making an extremely short-sighted decision to leave, now let them live with the consequences. If you have qualms with losing the Lonestar Showdown, take it up with College Station.
I'd open a vein...
if i thought the Aggies were part of our “culture.” They may have been our biggest rival once, but no more, and not for a long time. Times change; the business of college football has driven change before (the SWC was once our “culture,” too, but we got over it, and prospered). Change is coming again, and with it “the way we do things.” That’s life.
I didn't think the LHN was a good idea in the first place
We should have been pushing the conference to create a conference network. It’s what made the Big 10 so attractive to the teams in our conference in the first place. It meant extra money for being there and millions in incentives to stay.
TEXAS FIGHT
by Darklust on Aug 15, 2011 12:55 AM CDT up reply actions 2 recs
It wouldn't be.
Say what you will of the rotting industrial North, but the reality is that it’s still comprised of a Hell of a lot of highly-populated states. Texas is massive but outside of that the rest of the league’s imprint is pretty meager (compounded by the fact that the smallish markets of Kansas and Oklahoma split allegiances). Add to this the fact that the league’s second most populous state, Missouri, is a luke-warm college football state (ratings wise) at best and the viability of such an arrangement for the Big XII is shaky. This is not to defend the LHN, but rather to say it’s a better bet than a BXIIN.
Less memorable than Sam Okey's Hawkeye career.
by Kyle McCann't on Aug 15, 2011 2:58 AM CDT up reply actions
At the same time
Both Kansas and Oklahoma are (at least until armageddon truly breaks out) united in their loyalty to the conference, so in regard to a conference network their divided allegiances are of no import.
And while Missouri is lukewarm for football, AND while basketball pre-NCAA tournament is relatively small change compared to football… when you really crunch all the numbers, I’d have to say that a lockdown in Kansas as far as basketball is still a desirable thing for anyone. (But as we all know, there is “desirable” and then there is “necessary”.)
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I am starting to wonder about the finances of all of this...
I was not aware that I could cost A&M up to $30MM to exit from the Big 12 (setting aside additional legal fees, etc.)
So I have a few questions:
1) When does this money get paid? On exit, or does A&M get to spread it out over a period of years?
2) How much additional revenue does A&M get per year if it goes to the SEC?
Let’s start playing with rough numbers. Let’s assume that A&M has to pay $30MM for a clean break with the Big 12. Let’s also assume that A&M gets an extra $5MM per season in revenue. From an investment standpoint, that is about a 6 year payback (which is a pretty crappy rate of return). Without knowing more about A&M finances, it is hard to figure out a net present value for this sort of deal, but it is likely to be pretty close to zero, if not negative. And this scenario ignores all of the downside risk.
So what am I missing here? Obviously something. Am I underestimating the increase in revenue?
I am on Twitter @jeffchaley
The aggies have no money...
They can’t even afford to clean up the bat stuff out of their stadium. If BZ’s $30M number is correct I dont see how this works.
$30m is a number reported by Chip Brown per "an official in the Big 12"
Link is here
now (periodically) tweeting @BZatBON
Not trying to argue
just a serious question. Could A & M use the $20 million promised them from when neb and colorado left to offset the cost of the $30 million to move?
Their yearly take was supposed to be $20 million (and should be this year).
It’s not like they were getting $20 million from the breach funds – they were getting $20 million for their yearly TV/Bowl take (with added breach funds if needed). So yes, they can use their earnings in 2011 to pay it. The Big XII might even withhold the money and they could just pay $10 million out of pocket and not make any TV/Bowl money this year.
by Texas Wahoo on Aug 15, 2011 12:58 PM CDT up reply actions
With the disclaimer that I haven’t read the contract, I would suspect A&M has a fair amount of flexibility on the 30mm. Even if it can pay the debt on an installment basis (with interest), it likely can float a bond for this purpose, Sure, with interest it will cost even more than 30mm, but that’s the price of making Gene Stallings beergut UT happy and future A&M students will be glad to pay it, right?
proud to swim home
by learned hand on Aug 14, 2011 6:20 PM CDT up reply actions
With interest thrown in, this deal makes even less sense
$30MM is a lot to pay off, with interest, when your cash flow increase per year is so small. Even if they get favorable rates (say 4%, and note that I have no idea what they would get) you are talking about 6-7 years before the assumed added $5MM in revenue goes to anything other than paying down debt (assuming you try to pay it down as quickly as possible).
That is a really long payback time, particularly when conference alignment and TV contracts are as fluid as they seem to be.
So unless I am way off on the revenue, there is clearly more than money that motivates this.
I am on Twitter @jeffchaley
I should add
Assuming in the economic analysis you pay it down as quickly as possible. Obviously, A&M has other revenue than the marginal increase they get with the SEC. So they could pay the debt down quicker, in principle, which would reduce their interest.
Still, it is a 6 year payback. I think when you analyze these things, you have to first decide if it makes sense without using credit. If it doesn’t, then it is probably a bad idea.
This is purely a financial estimate. If the prestige of the SEC is something that A&M values, or getting away from Texas, or whatever, then it still can make sense.
I just want to challenge the assumption that it makes sense financially (in light of the $30MM fee).
I am on Twitter @jeffchaley
It doesn’t make sense financially unless you look 8 to 10 years down the road. By then the Aggie football program will be mired in mediocrity, if not bottom-tier status in the SEC. They will have their millions, though, so that should make them happy. They can start praising the virtues of their equestrian program consistently being ranked No. 1 in the country.
Whoop.
"Be who you are, and say what you feel, because those that mind don’t matter and those that matter don’t mind."
- Dr. Seuss
by dimecoverage on Aug 14, 2011 8:17 PM CDT up reply actions
Agreed
A&M would presumably be given a very favorable rate, given its relatively sterling credit and ability to issue a tax exempt bond. That said, I don’t think there’s any chance this makes sense financially, if A&M is held to $30mm, and that’s part of the reason behind the committee meeting Tuesday.
The 30 million dollar question is, “under what circumstances can the penalty be avoided?” If the departure of two or more schools avoids the exit penalty, then something feasible could be worked out, but A&M will have to slow down and act like adults. Alternatively, giddy alumni could pay the tab, but I’m disinclined to expect that outcome. This won’t be a 21 day affair.
proud to swim home
by learned hand on Aug 14, 2011 8:21 PM CDT up reply actions
something feasible could be worked out, but A&M will have to slow down and act like adults
Aggies?
"Be who you are, and say what you feel, because those that mind don’t matter and those that matter don’t mind."
- Dr. Seuss
by dimecoverage on Aug 14, 2011 8:22 PM CDT up reply actions 1 recs
$30 million dollars is a lot of jack
even for giddy alumni. With that much of a donation, I think you want to get something named after you…
In my cynicism, I had assumed this was all about money. That I why I am harping on this, because my basic assumption doesn’t seem to make sense, in light of learning just how expensive it will be to get out of the Big 12.
Unless the Aggies figured they would be able to wiggle out of paying.
I am on Twitter @jeffchaley
Agreed
It wouldn’t be unheard of (see: Pickens, T. Boone), but I don’t think A&M has such a fairy godmother/father. If some alumni had made a commitment to foot the bill, or a major portion of the bill, it would make A&M’s seeming recklessness a little more logical.
But then I’m probably trying to find logic where there isn’t any.
proud to swim home
by learned hand on Aug 15, 2011 1:38 PM CDT up reply actions
The aggy argument is...
The Big XII hasn’t paid ATM yet what they said they would when the other 2 teams left. This would let them have a grievance against the Big XII and thus NOT be responsible for the 30 mil.
That’s their play. Not saying it will fly.
by Orangechipper on Aug 14, 2011 8:20 PM CDT up reply actions
And if the SEC didn't get a renegotiated tv deal
A&M would be making 17m there when they’re making 20m here (or so posts here have lead me to believe not having actually checked their math). All in all, it looks like a pretty bad deal for A&M to leave. It’s a huge move towards the red for them to make, especially when the move could cause the legislature to strip them of funding further compounding this into a whirlwind of debt.
TEXAS FIGHT
30 Million
I think the 30 million dollar figure is what Texas AM would give up from the television contract and bowl payments. The Big12 would withhold payments to them in 2011 and 2012. Texas AM would not write a check or make payments to the Big12. Based on the new PAC12 agreement, SEC14 or SEC16 could get a 3-4 million increase per team in future tv contracts. TexasAM would break even in approximately 3.5 years. The old agreement was 2 years worth of payments which is closer to $40 million. But the Big12 agreed on less for CU and NU.
And, if their finances were better it may not be a bad deal to spend with a 3.5 year payback to join the SEC14 or SEC16. However Texas AM is broke. Flat Broke! I wonder if part of the SEC’s decision on Sunday was based on the financial demands that Texas AM was asking for jumping ship.
by Vernon Riggs on Aug 16, 2011 11:25 PM CDT up reply actions
From sources I read a few years ago
Each team split about 132.5 mil which is about 11-12 million a year. So you can probably add a few million to get to these years. That was about 08-08 I think. So that’s what atm would be picking up. I’m pretty sure that’s less than the agreed big 12 distribution plan, although I’m not sure.
They are either breaching contract by leaving the big 12 or paying a huge sum to break that contract. So there’s 30+ mil easy.
I didn't understand all the legal mumbo jumbo
Am I still welcome to make numerous jokes at the aggies’ expense?
"Well, a guy did a Horns down to him. You just shouldn’t do that."
Per Chip Brown on twitter:
A source locked into Texas A&M’s situation said the Aggies will be announced as members of the Southeastern Conference beginning in 2012 within 21 days.
Who are you?!
I'm Kick Ass!
Handshake agreements in place prior to a breached contract comes awful close to tortious interference
now (periodically) tweeting @BZatBON
by billyzane on Aug 14, 2011 6:19 PM CDT up reply actions 1 recs
It certainly looks bad if A&M goes ahead and leaves the Big XII shortly and the SEC invites them to join shortly after.
People are already speculating that the SEC is trying to avoid a tortious interference claim by waiting until A&M leaves.
by Texas Wahoo on Aug 15, 2011 12:32 AM CDT up reply actions
Did you read the above main article?
BZ is the “people” you speak of.
And if the sonofabitches are gone, then it is goodbye. Good enough. nt-whills
by run Bevo run on Aug 15, 2011 1:14 AM CDT up reply actions
But it's not just BZ.
My point was the EVERYONE is discussing it as if it was a legal maneuver meant to avoid a tortious interference with contractual relations claim. If all of these lay people are discussing it like a likely attempt to avoid litigation, I doubt a judge will just look at the order of events and let the SEC off the hook.
How many times must we listen to Chip Brown cite annonymous sources claiming the future is set in stone before we can start ignoring his predictions? Did we learn nothing from last year?
http://www.twitter.com/orlansky_40as
http://www.twitter.com/JayMashBON
by 40AS on Aug 14, 2011 6:35 PM CDT via mobile up reply actions
Or
A&M could make the argument that the Big 12 has already breached their contracts, and use that as an excuse to leave for any other BCS conference.
I'm sure that's an argument that will be made.
I think it’s likely a pretty big stretch, but it will be made because that’s the only leg A&M has to stand on if it doesn’t want to pay the breakup fee.
now (periodically) tweeting @BZatBON
And besides...
Breach by the Big 12 wouldn’t necessarily void the contract and thus, there could still be tortious interference. But you know that because you’ve been to law school right? Right?
now (periodically) tweeting @BZatBON
by billyzane on Aug 14, 2011 6:22 PM CDT up reply actions 4 recs
Haven't you heard?
Beergut has a degree in just about everything. Finance, law, business, journalism, microbiology, medicine, and many, many more.
We'll carry the banner high!
Bring On The Cats
by TB on Aug 14, 2011 6:33 PM CDT up reply actions 1 recs
Not, however
journalism or English.
The Wiki (I Don't Have a Real Name Yet) -- The Blog (Those Other Guys) -- The Twitter
TB comes around regularly
I’m going to make sure you come around more. You make me laugh.
And if the sonofabitches are gone, then it is goodbye. Good enough. nt-whills
by run Bevo run on Aug 14, 2011 6:44 PM CDT up reply actions
Y'all is mah frenz
‘cuz you gimme wheelbarrows full o’ moneez.
(No, seriously, this is my response to Husker fans. You pay us, they didn’t.)
The Wiki (I Don't Have a Real Name Yet) -- The Blog (Those Other Guys) -- The Twitter
I like this guy.
There is so much beauty because life can be so symmetrical that it gives birth to this almost silent poetry . . . (like) a girl who's terrible at grammar saying, "Mama, you raised me good," and then being pushed down a well . . .
I've also gotten very good at
“Why do you blame Texas for breaking up the SWC when it was all A&M and SMU’s fault?”
The Wiki (I Don't Have a Real Name Yet) -- The Blog (Those Other Guys) -- The Twitter
Oh? Do tell!
There is so much beauty because life can be so symmetrical that it gives birth to this almost silent poetry . . . (like) a girl who's terrible at grammar saying, "Mama, you raised me good," and then being pushed down a well . . .
Gawd, which one?
I’ve been getting back-slapped for a ton of shit lately, some of which wasn’t even that entertaining.
The Wiki (I Don't Have a Real Name Yet) -- The Blog (Those Other Guys) -- The Twitter
The one on the Texas hate thread,
which involved the Lubbock-is-like-Pittsburgh hilarity. I’m looking for it now.
Oh, my Brief History of the Southwest Conference?
The Wiki (I Don't Have a Real Name Yet) -- The Blog (Those Other Guys) -- The Twitter
The funniest thing about that
is that I was actually trolling Nebraska, and then I just threw in that line at the end, and… well… ahem.
The Wiki (I Don't Have a Real Name Yet) -- The Blog (Those Other Guys) -- The Twitter
My cat had died that morning.
Crazy as it is, that whacked out Raider saved my sanity.
The Wiki (I Don't Have a Real Name Yet) -- The Blog (Those Other Guys) -- The Twitter
That was fantastic.
Bravo, good sir. I’d post a .gif expressing my feelings, but a onemister Hopkins Horn would likely have another snide remark.
There is so much beauty because life can be so symmetrical that it gives birth to this almost silent poetry . . . (like) a girl who's terrible at grammar saying, "Mama, you raised me good," and then being pushed down a well . . .
WE PAID YOU IN BEATINGS
And eyepokes. (Chad May got paid twice.)
by Albino Tornado on Aug 14, 2011 10:14 PM CDT up reply actions
This is unbelievably funny
beergut and miketag got incredibly upset when Peter and others stated that aggies continuously played the victim when it came to its rivalry with Texas. So what do they do now that the SEC hit the pause button on realignment? You got it, play the victim except now the perpetrator isn’t Texas but the entire Big Xll.
Who are you?!
I'm Kick Ass!
by TexasGarcia37 on Aug 14, 2011 6:30 PM CDT up reply actions
Who are you and why did you take 3/4 of my name?
:-)
http://www.twitter.com/orlansky_40as
http://www.twitter.com/JayMashBON
by 40AS on Aug 14, 2011 6:37 PM CDT via mobile up reply actions
Just a fellow Horn fan like yourself
except I saw your name after I created mine. Hah! ;)
In all seriousness though, I have been reading this blog for YEARS and finally decided it was a perfect moment to break out into posting.
Apparently not during baseball season...
proud to swim home
by learned hand on Aug 14, 2011 6:40 PM CDT up reply actions
We cover baseball
Welcome to BON!
http://www.twitter.com/orlansky_40as
http://www.twitter.com/JayMashBON
by 40AS on Aug 14, 2011 6:44 PM CDT via mobile up reply actions
This is completely unrelated, but

"I want to be remembered as the guy who gave his all whenever he was on the field."
-Walter Payton
So, Etch..
…I moved back to DFW just last week. I walked into a random old favorite restaurant for dinner (Tolberts) and who to my complete surprise is playing right now? Josh Weathers. This day just keeps getting better and better!
Now Texas-based -- at last!!!! So I'm available for all your family photography needs, especially in DFW (though I travel throughout the state frequently). Stop on by and check out my work!
by Hopkins Horn on Aug 14, 2011 7:49 PM CDT via mobile up reply actions
Bet it's not as good as the Local Nobodys ;-)
There is so much beauty because life can be so symmetrical that it gives birth to this almost silent poetry . . . (like) a girl who's terrible at grammar saying, "Mama, you raised me good," and then being pushed down a well . . .
Um... :)
Now Texas-based -- at last!!!! So I'm available for all your family photography needs, especially in DFW (though I travel throughout the state frequently). Stop on by and check out my work!
by Hopkins Horn on Aug 14, 2011 7:52 PM CDT via mobile up reply actions
Nice, man.
Its my greatest regret of the summer that I didn’t get to see him. Stupid move on my part, especially since there is no such thing as free time during football season for me. I’ll have to wait til December. Let me know what you think of him.
"I want to be remembered as the guy who gave his all whenever he was on the field."
-Walter Payton
Even if the Big 12 breached
That doesn’t mean Fox won’t sue ‘em for breaching contract and damaging their product, nor that the legislature won’t strip ’em of funding. If either scenario occurs, the Aggies are screwed.
TEXAS FIGHT
Tortious Interference= This man, Joe Jamail

And $10.53Billion verdict Joe Jamail remains the most ever. The SEC and Ags would probably be well advised to honor their current contracts.
Specific performance is an option to stop the breach of contract if they try to leave.
Now, can anyone explain how it would be damaging to the Big XII-II (-.5) or UT if the Ags were to leave. I don’t think we can sue them for doing us a favor.
Don't be such a baby.
Hilarious story about Darrell Royal and Willie Nelson
Got him drunk before closing arguments.
http://www.abajournal.com/magazine/article/joe_jamail/
Don't be such a baby.
I think it really depends
on the amount of time they stay in the big 12. If I’m not mistaken our TV deal is null if we go below 10 teams right? I would tell them to not let the door hit them on their way out but we need some expansion.
Joe Jamail won the $10.53 for Texaco against Pennzoil
On a tortious interference claim. It had not been a very recognized theory prior to that time. Believe me, nobody wants to be on the other end of a Joe Jamail lawsuit.
Don't be such a baby.
Hire the best. And Joe would be on our side. :-)
"Be who you are, and say what you feel, because those that mind don’t matter and those that matter don’t mind."
- Dr. Seuss
by dimecoverage on Aug 14, 2011 8:18 PM CDT up reply actions
If they leave and we have no replacement already in hand
ESPN is legally allowed to cancel our deal, and FOX may be as well.
The Wiki (I Don't Have a Real Name Yet) -- The Blog (Those Other Guys) -- The Twitter
My last jury duty,
This guy was one of the lead lawyers. Forgot what he was arguing about, but he’s a badass. Granted, I work in healthcare, not law stuff. But he kept people’s attention.
by divinebovine on Aug 14, 2011 7:21 PM CDT up reply actions
"I'd rather have a nose on my ass than go to Delaware for any reason."
Okay, I like this guy.
The Wiki (I Don't Have a Real Name Yet) -- The Blog (Those Other Guys) -- The Twitter
If you've never heard anything from Jamail
This is glorious. "That ain’t your God damned job, fat boy.
There is so much beauty because life can be so symmetrical that it gives birth to this almost silent poetry . . . (like) a girl who's terrible at grammar saying, "Mama, you raised me good," and then being pushed down a well . . .
I have never seen that before.
And it is awesome.
by divinebovine on Aug 14, 2011 7:30 PM CDT up reply actions
Nothing glorious about that video
That video is everything wrong about Texas. Everyone in that room should be put in a burlap sack and drowned in the river.

There is so much beauty because life can be so symmetrical that it gives birth to this almost silent poetry . . . (like) a girl who's terrible at grammar saying, "Mama, you raised me good," and then being pushed down a well . . .
by lnghrn53 on Aug 14, 2011 8:08 PM CDT up reply actions 3 recs
WTF?
Really? Joe Jamail need to be drowned in the river? Rarely would I say this, but you seriously should be banned just for that ridiculous comment. And forget Jamail. You just managed to insult about half the population of my state. And if you think there is so damn much wrong with Texas, you’re welcome to live in one of the other so-much-more-enlightened states, where nobody has a job.
Watch out, I bite.
by EddieTheAlbinoSquirrel on Aug 14, 2011 10:08 PM CDT up reply actions 6 recs
Rec'age so hard.
There is so much beauty because life can be so symmetrical that it gives birth to this almost silent poetry . . . (like) a girl who's terrible at grammar saying, "Mama, you raised me good," and then being pushed down a well . . .
Notice all those cuts between questions?
There’s probably a good chance that the same questions were asked 15 different ways trying to get something they could use. Never do I want to get stuck being questioned by a lawyer like that and neither would you.
TEXAS FIGHT
Chip Brown breathes life
into postponed, but affirmed, A&M move to SEC. I’ll believe it when I see it.
Burnt Orange Nation
Follow Along on Twitter @TXStampede
Well, ESPN radio was stating pretty much the same thing from multiple sources...
the spin is that this is only delaying the inevitable and that its not a matter of if the Aggies go to the SEC, but when. The SEC wants A&M to be the instigator in all this (or at least have that appearance in order to avoid potential litigation).
It could be days, weeks, or in the offseason….but I get the sense this is still got a real shot at happening. Count me as one though that is all for going through with the divorce.
But what everyone is missing here
Is that the legislators that TAMU was trying to circumvent are now fully in the picture. Even if it’s nothing but a guise, it’s a lot easier for the ags to say, “Well, they approached us, and it would be foolish not to jump at this opportunity.” It’s a lot easier to spin things that way (while simultaneously moving at a fast enough time table to avoid disruption) than it is to convince our bat shit crazy legislature to allow them to be the one who leans in for the kiss.
There is so much beauty because life can be so symmetrical that it gives birth to this almost silent poetry . . . (like) a girl who's terrible at grammar saying, "Mama, you raised me good," and then being pushed down a well . . .
That's why I get the sense A&M wants to make some formal move...
while the Texas Legislature is not in session.
Now it is still obvious to me the state of Tx still has a big say in the funding for A&M’s academics, and A&M’s obvious attempts to duck the tx legislature is not going to go over well here.
The thing is though
When the Big 12 formed, originally it was going to be an addition of only UT and TAMU. The politicians got TTU and Baylor thrown into the mix, and if I’m not mistaken (which I often am) the legislature wasn’t in session then either. Politics don’t necessarily have to happen on the floor of the House or Senate to be effective.
There is so much beauty because life can be so symmetrical that it gives birth to this almost silent poetry . . . (like) a girl who's terrible at grammar saying, "Mama, you raised me good," and then being pushed down a well . . .
The hideous irony here is
if it HAD just been UT and A&M, Nebraska never would have bolted. They don’t like to admit it, but their greatest real source of butthurt was losing the annual game with OU.
The Wiki (I Don't Have a Real Name Yet) -- The Blog (Those Other Guys) -- The Twitter
I know.
I do love how we’re the bullies now, when NU was the one metaphorically swinging its cock in the beginning. Oh, how times change and how people’s memories tend to be short.
There is so much beauty because life can be so symmetrical that it gives birth to this almost silent poetry . . . (like) a girl who's terrible at grammar saying, "Mama, you raised me good," and then being pushed down a well . . .
Tech was included
Texas, Texas AM, Texas Tech and BYU was the first plan to add to the Big8 to become the Big12. Anne Richards was the Governor of Texas at the time and a Baylor grad stepped in. BYU was booted and Baylor added. Times are different now.
by Vernon Riggs on Aug 16, 2011 11:33 PM CDT up reply actions
Politics and Football
You guys are giving the Lege way too much credit. Governor Ann – a Baylor gal – got her alma mater into the Big XII – not the Lege. And remember that current Governor Goodhair is an Aggie – which is all the more reason for the Aggies to move to a better neighborhood while the politics are in their favor. So you guys keep ranting and living in the glory years (which were before most of you were born) – but the Aggies will SEC-ede. And remember – UT was invited last year also. You can justify UT’s reasons for not going to SEC however you like.
All time UT leads series 75-37-5
Since 1965 – (Corps was no longer required for A&M athletes) – UT leads 26-20
Since 1972 (NCAA equalized scholarships) – UT leads 20-19
Since DKR Retired – Series Tied 17-17
You're wrong
It was David Sibley (who I believe was the pres pro tem of the Texas Senate) who was the primary force behind Baylor getting into the Big 12, not Ann Richards. Plus, the governor in Texas is “weak” because of certain constitutional restrictions.
But, of course, you knew all this, because you’re a Texan and I’m not.
We'll carry the banner high!
Bring On The Cats
by TB on Aug 14, 2011 8:57 PM CDT up reply actions 1 recs
I'm liking you KSU people more and more every day.
There is so much beauty because life can be so symmetrical that it gives birth to this almost silent poetry . . . (like) a girl who's terrible at grammar saying, "Mama, you raised me good," and then being pushed down a well . . .
Good, now remember to take us with you when the shit hits the fan.
/shiftyeyes
The Wiki (I Don't Have a Real Name Yet) -- The Blog (Those Other Guys) -- The Twitter
by jonfmorse on Aug 14, 2011 9:07 PM CDT up reply actions 3 recs
what?
so you can continue to kick our ass repeatedly???
Aw, come on, you have to win eventually.
(One reason why I’ve come to like you guys? You’re not sore losers.)
The Wiki (I Don't Have a Real Name Yet) -- The Blog (Those Other Guys) -- The Twitter
Guess again, guys. The name you need is Bob bullock. He was the force behind Baylor’s move to the Big 12.
"Be who you are, and say what you feel, because those that mind don’t matter and those that matter don’t mind."
- Dr. Seuss
by dimecoverage on Aug 14, 2011 9:00 PM CDT up reply actions
Sibley was the one who caught wind of it and got the ball rolling
But yes, I forgot about Bullock.
We'll carry the banner high!
Bring On The Cats
by TB on Aug 14, 2011 9:01 PM CDT up reply actions
No one could breathe in this state unless Bullock knew about it. He knew and used Sibley to do his bidding.
"Be who you are, and say what you feel, because those that mind don’t matter and those that matter don’t mind."
- Dr. Seuss
by dimecoverage on Aug 14, 2011 9:02 PM CDT up reply actions
Sorry, I made a mistake
Sibley was just a senator. Bob Bullock, lieutenant governor, had a big hand in organizing the Baylor and Tech forces.
We'll carry the banner high!
Bring On The Cats
by TB on Aug 14, 2011 9:00 PM CDT up reply actions
Sibley was his front man so you were correct about that.
Oh, so much to say about Bullock and the state of Texas…but I can’t.
"Be who you are, and say what you feel, because those that mind don’t matter and those that matter don’t mind."
- Dr. Seuss
by dimecoverage on Aug 14, 2011 9:01 PM CDT up reply actions
Sibley is from Waco
Sibley was the Texas State Senator from Waco, home of Baylor that help Anne Richards push BYU out and Baylor into the Big12 back in the day.
by Vernon Riggs on Aug 16, 2011 11:37 PM CDT up reply actions
And if the Ags say "they approached us"
Mike Slive will be served within about 20 minutes. In fact, I am willing to bet there’s an attorney in Birmingham who already has the papers drawn up, and will have a paralegal at the courthouse waiting to file on a second’s notice.
The Wiki (I Don't Have a Real Name Yet) -- The Blog (Those Other Guys) -- The Twitter
Exactly
That’s why even if the “doors are open” rumors are still true, we’re not analyzing the same playing field. ESPN talking heads aren’t privy to our politicians, and I think they’re underestimating the irrationality.
There is so much beauty because life can be so symmetrical that it gives birth to this almost silent poetry . . . (like) a girl who's terrible at grammar saying, "Mama, you raised me good," and then being pushed down a well . . .
If Chip Brown stories were all correct
We’d be gearing up for our opener versus Arizona State
http://www.twitter.com/orlansky_40as
http://www.twitter.com/JayMashBON
by 40AS on Aug 14, 2011 6:53 PM CDT up reply actions 1 recs
I'm so with you on this, 40AS
I don’t understand why everyone still clings to this guy’s word as gospel. I obviously don’t have the statistics on it, but it sure seems that he’s been wrong a whole lot more than he’s been right regarding conference realignment issues.
There is so much beauty because life can be so symmetrical that it gives birth to this almost silent poetry . . . (like) a girl who's terrible at grammar saying, "Mama, you raised me good," and then being pushed down a well . . .
With all the variables in play right now...
…anyone who claims to know with certainty how this situation will turn out is not to be trusted.
We'll carry the banner high!
Bring On The Cats
by TB on Aug 14, 2011 7:03 PM CDT up reply actions 2 recs
Not clinging
just linking (like dimecoverage).
Burnt Orange Nation
Follow Along on Twitter @TXStampede
Not saying you, specifically, Stampede
But I know of a lot that still think, “OOOOOOHHHH! Chip Brown weighed in, so this MUST be true!”
There is so much beauty because life can be so symmetrical that it gives birth to this almost silent poetry . . . (like) a girl who's terrible at grammar saying, "Mama, you raised me good," and then being pushed down a well . . .
Let them leave tomorrow..
It was just awesome to hear them denied today!
by Dawnpatrol on Aug 14, 2011 7:04 PM CDT via mobile reply actions
I've been out all afternoon. What did I miss?
Now Texas-based -- at last!!!! So I'm available for all your family photography needs, especially in DFW (though I travel throughout the state frequently). Stop on by and check out my work!
by Hopkins Horn on Aug 14, 2011 7:20 PM CDT via mobile reply actions
Well
The bad news is that the aggies are still around. The good news is that we get to laugh at them incessantly (like we need another reason) for stirring this storm up and getting told, “Thanks, but no thanks.”
There is so much beauty because life can be so symmetrical that it gives birth to this almost silent poetry . . . (like) a girl who's terrible at grammar saying, "Mama, you raised me good," and then being pushed down a well . . .
by lnghrn53 on Aug 14, 2011 7:22 PM CDT up reply actions 1 recs
Hey, GIF boy...
…I think this situation calls for a GIF from the Simpsons Movie. Specifically, the scene in which Homer starts throwing middle fingers around left and right until he gets stuck in the quicksand.
Now Texas-based -- at last!!!! So I'm available for all your family photography needs, especially in DFW (though I travel throughout the state frequently). Stop on by and check out my work!
by Hopkins Horn on Aug 14, 2011 7:28 PM CDT via mobile up reply actions
On it

There is so much beauty because life can be so symmetrical that it gives birth to this almost silent poetry . . . (like) a girl who's terrible at grammar saying, "Mama, you raised me good," and then being pushed down a well . . .
I am impressed.
Took you all of 1 minute?
by divinebovine on Aug 14, 2011 7:31 PM CDT up reply actions
Sigh
It has to be said. Ahem…“That’s what she said.”
There is so much beauty because life can be so symmetrical that it gives birth to this almost silent poetry . . . (like) a girl who's terrible at grammar saying, "Mama, you raised me good," and then being pushed down a well . . .
by lnghrn53 on Aug 14, 2011 7:33 PM CDT up reply actions 7 recs

And if the sonofabitches are gone, then it is goodbye. Good enough. nt-whills
by run Bevo run on Aug 14, 2011 8:01 PM CDT up reply actions
But Might I Add..

There is so much beauty because life can be so symmetrical that it gives birth to this almost silent poetry . . . (like) a girl who's terrible at grammar saying, "Mama, you raised me good," and then being pushed down a well . . .
Tee hee.
Thujone strikes.
The Wiki (I Don't Have a Real Name Yet) -- The Blog (Those Other Guys) -- The Twitter
Great Post BZ
Thanks for explaining the legal jargon to those of us who didn’t go to law school.
Very helpful.
--AW--
by awiggo on Aug 14, 2011 7:58 PM CDT via mobile reply actions
this sports illustrated article is interesting
http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2011/writers/andy_staples/08/14/texas.am.sec/
formerly "Horns102591"
by horns1025 on Aug 14, 2011 8:23 PM CDT via mobile reply actions
He raises the old
“If you can’t beat ‘em then take your ball to a conference that’ll pay you an equal sum regardless of how you perform athletically which you’ll need because you’ll be performing far worse on the field” argument
http://www.twitter.com/orlansky_40as
http://www.twitter.com/JayMashBON
UT Ego
As a LSU fan, I find it hilarious that UT fans think teams are leaving the conference because they are afraid to play UT. What was UT’s record last year?
Face it dudes. They are leaving because of your GREED. You try that crapola in the SEC, we would have booted you out. I think most major conferences would.
I have one question for you. How does it feel to know that your team will soon cause the death of not one but two conferences. Yeah, that’s something to brag about, boys.
Now that I put the kids in there place, I want to say that I know all this is a result of the worst thing that has happened to college football- big time money. I’m sure if any of the major programs were in UT’s place, they would do the exact same thing. With UT having the largest AD revenue and one of the largest fan bases of all of college football have helped pushed UT into this decision. But t what cost to your soul?
I think the big wigs at UT have already assessed that the conference would implode and UT would be better off going the independent route instead of having to support all the teams hanging on to their purse strings. If it works for ND, it would work for UT. Face it. Replacing A&M, Colo. and Neb with UH, SMU, UTSA or UTEP would not bring in the revenue the exiting teams had suppled. And Don’t count on major programs wanting to play a series with UT with all games at UT as some of you suggested. Most need at least 7 home games to stay profitable and that includes playing conference games.
UT fans, it will be interesting to see how this all pans out.
I do find it ironic that all of these discussions have resulted from UT getting their own TV station but to this date not one provider has signed up for this package. Yes, the future will be interesting, to say the least.
All you're doing is regurgitating the same, bland points that the Aggies have been making
And none of them are true.
No one said they’re “afraid to play UT”. We say they’re throwing a hissy fit because they’ve been second fiddle to us in just about everything for a very, very long time and they want to finally be out from our shadow. It has nothing to do with football. And even if it did, last year is one year, guy. History shows that the series is seriously one-sided in our favor.
This whole “GREED” argument is just plain silly. Are you telling me that if LSU couldn’t do something to gain $300 MM in revenue they would pass? Hell no, they wouldn’t. And neither would A&M. They’re using the LHN as a talking point because they really have nothing else.
“Cause the death of … two conferences.” I really have yet to see a valid argument to support this in any way shape or form. The SWC was dying with of all the cheating going on (SMU/A&M). And as far as the Big XII goes? MU was the school that started flirting with other conferences, which led Texas to act in our best interest should the conference collapse. In fact, it was strong negotiating on Texas’ part that led to the Big XII staying in tact to this point. A&M started barking this year and they pointed the finger at us because they don’t want to be the scapegoat.
Now that I put the kids in there place,
HAHAHAHAHAHA wait… give me a sec to catch my breathe…. HAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHA
I’m sure if any of the major programs were in UT’s place, they would do the exact same thing
So how is our “greed” any different than any other schools greed? We’re just capable of doing it so we’re the bad guys?
UT would be better off going the independent route
Come on, dude. A couple (thousand) Aggies saying we are going independent doesn’t mean that Texas said this. Not ONE UT admin said that independence is what we want, or that we’re better off going that route. You’re repeating the same garbage the Aggies are (do you really want to do that? Consider the source.)
And Don’t count on major programs wanting to play a series with UT with all games at UT as some of you suggested
1) who suggested that all games would be played at Texas?
2) You mean schools like USC (on our sched), ND (on our sched), Ole Miss (on our sched), etc. The fact is, Texas is a huge draw for pretty much any school and we’ll get opponents no matter what conference we’re in.
I do find it ironic that all of these discussions have resulted from UT getting their own TV station but to this date not one provider has signed up for this package.
Last point (thank God!)
1) What discussions? The ones this year, or the ones last year? LHN was developed as a result of NU and CU bolting and Texas negotiating the ability to have the LHN. It has nothing to do with the Aggies.
2) Again, this same tired point has been made over and over and over again by people not thinking and just wanting to say something to make Texas look stupid. Deals take time to negotiate. It’s part of business. ESPN has an insane amount of leverage with carriers. Texas has the most profitable athletic department in the country. Once the season starts and carriers haven’t been announced, then you have a point. Again, deals are most likely being worked out with all the carriers. When you’re dealing with multiple parties with multiple millions of dollars on the table, you really can’t expect an announcement that huge within a week or two.
Thanks for putting us in our place on a thread that is almost second paged. You truly are an amazing person.
by GoHorns on Aug 16, 2011 2:01 AM CDT up reply actions 1 recs

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