Conference Realignment: The Aggie Perspective
We know well what the most vocal, often hysterical portion of the Aggie fan base thinks -- SECede at all costs! -- but what about Rational Ag? You know the ones: your colleagues and neighbors who don't live on TexAgs and who you have a hard time figuring out just how exactly they went through Fish Camp with a straight face. They're, like, normal people.
The truth is, of course, that such Aggies probably outnumber the loons, and though their online presence is minimal, I tracked one down to talk about this whole SEC thing. BONizens, meet James Garnder, an Aggie alum now working on his MBA at Notre Dame. You can find him on Twitter @JimmyGards.
PB: I want to explore this whole thing with you in some detail, Jimmy, but let's walk through it in steps, and start at the top: Do you think Texas A&M should be seeking to join the SEC right now?
James Gardner: Over the past year, I was one of the few Ags that was reluctant about the idea of moving to the SEC. My reluctance was rooted primarily in optimism for the Big 12. For all its flaws, I had grown to love the league and I felt they were in a great bargaining position for their next set of TV deals a few years down the road.
Clearly Texas has a revolutionary vision for where they want to be as a program and much of it is pretty admirable. However, I'm of the belief that conferences are partnerships and while Texas' revenue-maximization goals appeal to the capitalist in me, some of their actions don't seem to align with the best interests of the league and its vitality.
For many reasons, the Big 12 can never have the identity and unity of the SEC and Big 10. We've seen over the past couple years that every school is essentially just looking out for themselves. That typed, the best option for Texas A&M right now is to join the SEC.
PB: Okay, so let's unpack that a little bit. A year ago, you were optimistic about the Big 12 being a fruitful partnership. Now, a year later, you're not. What, exactly, changed?
James Gardner: Nothing really changed. A&M's brass has even conceded that they wish this had been addressed last year. I think they had their own issues to sort out and now that they're on the same page, they're ready to move. I know this won't be popular with your readership, but the scope of the Longhorn Network and relationship with ESPN comes off a bit brazen and arrogant. UT seems content to push the envelope as they build their extremely lucrative brand. Personally, I don't fault Texas for looking out for Texas. We're just looking after ourselves. I imagine the brass now wishes they were playing their hand closer to the vest because as soon as the mob of rabid fans got wind of SEC talk, the train was loading up. From a simple PR standpoint, it would be tough for the administration to shut this down.
PB: That doesn't make much sense to me, but let's accept that the only reason A&M went along with things a year ago was that they needed a year to, I don't know, something. But let's get at the real issue here, which is "looking after ourselves." Here, I'm mystified. Let me tell you how this looks from where I'm sitting, and get your reaction.
It seems to me that A&M is sitting pretty in the current Big 12 partnership, however flawed and tenuous it may be. The Aggies are making money and are guaranteed to continue making money. Good money -- at least as much as they're going to get at the SEC. Not only that, but they're sitting as the No. 2 school in the most talent-rich state for college football. And best of all, their path to real, meaningful success is crystal clear. Beat Texas, beat OU, beat a mediocre conference slate, play for the national title.
Contrast that with the move to the SEC. Not only do the Aggies enter a conference where they are immediately a middle-of-the-pack program at best, but they stand to lose ground as the SEC foxes are invited into the Aggies recruiting henhouse. Arkansas hasn't won a conference title since joining the SEC, and it would be a major upset if the Aggies did any time soon, either. All the upside and benefit is with the SEC. The Aggies get, what? Stability? Fine, but they aren't Kansas -- A&M is too valuable a commodity to be left without a chair when the next realignment round happens.
Why, then, make this move now? Why now, when you have a chance to keep building up the strength of your program in a weaker, temporarily beneficial Big 12? You make money, you win games, you bolster your recruiting profile, you don't compete with the SEC. And you don't sacrifice your leverage later in the realignment game. What the hell are y'all thinking? How is this in your best interests? I honestly don't get it. All it does is divorce you from Texas. That doesn't help you, and doesn't hurt us.
James Gardner: All very valid points. (I love lawyers). These are the reasons I'm more hesitant than most on the move. Financially, we'll be fine however this unfolds.
I do think there is real concern over the long term ramifications of the Longhorn Network. This is mostly uncharted waters in the sport. I always enjoy watching ESPN act as an entertainment conglomerate while maintaining journalistic credibility. Their role in all of this will be interesting.
As for the competition, it is certainly a jump, but in many years, the Big 12 South has been the best division in football. I think we'll adapt. We've had our Fran years. We went through a very dark decade. Alabama, Auburn, and LSU have all had lean times in recent history. I believe we'll embrace the challenge and adapt. We have all the resources and capabilities to compete. Many are excited about these schools coming into Kyle Field every other year instead of Baylor, Iowa State, etc.
The recruiting dynamic is definitely something to be considered. One could argue that A&M could recruit better in Texas by selling the opportunity to play in the best league in the country. LSU would seem to be the biggest benefactor if A&M moved to the SEC - particularly in Houston. Arkansas already has their Texas inroads. The SEC recruiting landscape plays by a different set of rules. How will this impact Texas high school football? What does A&M have to change when recruiting?
The timing of when this all leaked is definitely strange. They'd never admit this, but I think it has Belmont on their heels a bit. You had to think that with UT bullying their way around a weakened conference that programs with bargaining chips would use them. The SEC is our bargaining chip. More than anything, I'd hate to see the Thanksgiving game go.
PB: I appreciate your points, although it doesn't sound even you're totally sold on them. The really interesting point you raise, however, is the last one: a bluff to add leverage with Texas. I personally find the game theory aspect of realignment the most interesting thing about it all, and if A&M's recent harrumphing is a bluff as opposed to an emotional overreaction, well, that's a good bit more interesting (and admirable).
So let's start to wind this down with a different question: what do you think will happen? Is A&M maneuvering to strengthen its present position? Or is A&M out the door the first chance it gets? If the former, I may have to reconsider my disdain for the move. If the latter, well... heaven help y'all.
James Gardner: I'm not totally sold on the move. It isn't a "slam dunk" or as cut-and-dry as the loudest Aggies would have you believe. If anything, I'm glad the process has slowed from last weekend's torrid pace. These are decisions that impact decades and should definitely not be done emotionally.
I think A&M will be in the SEC in the next couple years. When your university president, regents, and Rick Perry let their intentions show, I don't see how it gets turned around. I would love a scenario where they bluffed a bit just to keep the powers at UT and ESPN guessing. What is UT's move if we leave? As you and I both have Notre Dame ties, I think independence has to be on the table.
I'm ready for games. Until then, I expect more Pat Forde columns toeing the LHN line.
PB: The Aggies are 1-6 in their last 7 bowl games against the SEC, and 0-4 in the previous two years, losing to Arkansas (twice), LSU, and Georgia by an average score of 39-20. (Hat Tip: SAS) A move to the SEC would require an awful lot of adapting.
In any event, as a bluff to keep things interesting until the next round of realignment begins, the ruckus of the last few weeks is defensible, possibly even wise. It's hard to tell what's really going on, given how utterly insane the most vocal members of Aggieland are. It was good to chat with a thoughtful Aggie on the topic.
As for Texas, the timing of realignment's next act probably has a big influence on how we play our hand. I think you're right: independence is definitely an option, but I don't think we're locked into that as the only way this can play out for us. I think Texas would prefer to stay paired with Oklahoma for the time being (perhaps ideally in the Super Pac 16), and the one scenario that's a little bit frightening for Texas is A&M and OU bolting for the SEC together on a shortened timetable. That forces us to make a decision before I think we'd ideally like to do so.
Thanks again, and we'll see y'all in November.
James Gardner: Texas is 0-5 in their last five Big 12 games. Hopefully you can adapt back to the conference. Watch out for the Ames roadie.
I enjoyed the chat. Your legal chops serve you well in this format. Thanks for having me.
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Comments
Typical Aggie
Riddle me this Agman: Why would a top recruit from Texas want to go play on a team that is not going to win championships? Talk is cheap Ags win something big and then talk smack. One 9 win season means nothing. Do you know how many teams won 9 games last year! Lots!
by Dawnpatrol on Aug 21, 2011 8:28 PM CDT via mobile reply actions
didnt Rick "The Cheerleader" Perry say he doesnt expect A&M to leave the Big XII
could be wrong but i thought i heard that he said he didnt expect A&M to move.
formerly "Horns102591"
I just want to know if Aggies will start waving pom poms at games now.

3/19/2009 & 12/15/2009 - Games Where Dogus Balbay Made a Three-Pointer. Never Forget.
what is the deal with those things anyways?
is that like the SEC Conference Flag or something?
formerly "Horns102591"
He lost me at...
“I always enjoy watching ESPN act as an entertainment conglomerate while maintaining journalistic credibility.”
"Be who you are, and say what you feel, because those that mind don’t matter and those that matter don’t mind."
- Dr. Seuss
by dimecoverage on Aug 21, 2011 9:09 PM CDT reply actions 1 recs
I assumed that was either sarcastic or poorly worded.
I've got this terrible pain in all the diodes down my left-hand side.
Bradley-Terry rankings for college football and basketball: because there aren't enough computer rankings already.
Craig James
and his ESPN friends would like to have a word with you.
Meat? They're made out of Meat? Meat.
by ihavethemelody on Aug 22, 2011 9:12 AM CDT up reply actions
Craig James lost me when he said that he had no idea SMU was cheating while he was there.
What a moron.
SEC- Southern Evangelical Cheaters. Since Jesus didn't specifically mention cheating in football in the New Testament, they are good to go.
by dimecoverage on Aug 22, 2011 9:18 AM CDT up reply actions
Yep
I still can’t believe that he’s allowed to announce college games. Always terrible.
Meat? They're made out of Meat? Meat.
by ihavethemelody on Aug 22, 2011 10:55 AM CDT up reply actions
Them some big words ain't them?
Was it “conglomerate” or “credibility” that confused you? That Gardner guy with his big, fancy, vocabulary, no way he went to school in CS!
It's 50/50
On the Aggies that I know on their feelings of the SEC. Some are just ready for change and want to be able to out of Texas’ shadow. They mostly think that they ‘Have’ to do it to level the playing field with Texas. The LHN was just the nail in the coffin. I point out to those that Texas(outside of last year) just finished one of the best 10 yr runs in college football history and AT BEST would be the 2nd or 3rd best team in the SEC durning that run….The Big 12 sets Aggie up for success, the SEC for failure in foreseeable future.
Very well said. You make several valid points.
That being said, if UT were to level the playing field with regards to conference revenue and change the LHN to the Big 12 network I think they would stay. If they don’t, A&M would be crazy to stay. It’s either go and compete against the teams in the toughest league at the SEC or stay in the Big 12 where they will win more games but stay in UT’s shadow.
I don’t think Aggies have really thought through what it would mean to not play a group of teams from it’s own region annually. Take away the Texas game, and with their comparatively small national footprint, they would be putting themselves on an island that only has a view to the east. Add OU or another team from this region and it’s a true game changer. To the extent A&M can see the risks of going alone, they might reconsider. That’s a part of what you hear when someone is thinking things through – they can take stock of what is sacrificed, what is lost. I’m not hearing any Ags talk about that, and their current plan is buoyed by the expectation they will still play Texas. For all the positives imagined, A&M’s status, present and past, is elevated by some important factors that the SEC can’t replicate.
by triplehorn on Aug 21, 2011 9:22 PM CDT via mobile reply actions
I concur
I had my own convo with a level headed aggie recently along the same lines as PB. The point you make along with PB’s point about “why now!?” pushed him back to the Big 12 line of thinking.
Once I alleviated the misinformation about the LHN, he was more concerned about being left out of the ability to join the SEC when/if the super conference dominoes fall. But I explained that A&M would be the SEC’s number 1 choice when having to add more teams due to media market plus Texas recruiting. So why take the risk now on your own when it’s tougher competition and you lose taking part in the regional culture.
This goes to show me that for most it is an emotional decision. Answering our VERY VALID concerns about how much harder it is going to win in the SEC with “well UT just went 5-7” replaces critical thinking with emotional hope, not a good strategy for evaluation LONG TERM consequences (like how in the LONG TERM, we’ve dominated and A&M has not).
Why attack Fish Camp?
As a graduate of both Texas A&M and UT at Austin, I am bemused by Longhorns’ obsession with A&M’s future athletic plans. But why attack Fish Camp? At UT at Austin, I counseled a number of lost and lonely Longhorn freshmen who needed an “opportunity to have fun, make friends, and learn about life” at their university as offered to Aggies at Fish Camp. A Longhorn Fish Camp also might help UT Austin with their problems with student retention. I lived in Austin now for twenty years and have learned that the rudest Longhorn fans often never attended (or at least graduated) from the school. I am disappointed as I expected better of this website.
by Tired of Longhorn Spin on Aug 21, 2011 9:24 PM CDT reply actions
Expected better?
Good grief. You made a good enough point, but the “expected better of this website” is, let’s be honest, totally gratuitous. Pretty obvious where your loyalties lie.
Look, you can make the case that UT should do more to engender relationships with new students and the school, but in the context of my post I was taking a crack at the over-the-top nature of Aggie culture. You know it and I know it. And while your point about UT may stand, the lecture is unwarranted.
Dare I say, we expect better in the comments.
You ain't hurt...
by Peter Bean on Aug 21, 2011 9:32 PM CDT up reply actions 6 recs
Please don’t be offended. I’m sure PB has nothing against Fish Camp. It sounds like a great way to introduce incoming freshmen, especially small-town kids, to the school so they don’t feel lost on a large campus.
And you are confusing all this talk of Aggie-to-the-SEC as if we actually care. We don’t. We are just counting down the days until A&M leaves. Right now we are just bored in the off-season and since Brown doesn’t release any pertinent information we don’t have anything to talk about.
Leave. Please. NOW.
SEC- Southern Evangelical Cheaters. Since Jesus didn't specifically mention cheating in football in the New Testament, they are good to go.
by dimecoverage on Aug 21, 2011 9:34 PM CDT up reply actions
Thats how you feel as a fan, as most longhorns do.
But based on the ramifications for the conference, I would do all I can to keep them. There are a lot of unknowns if they leave, both as a conference and as UT. And you can’t play that same ole line “but we have money. we will be fine with whatever happens.”
There is a lot to consider here.
No, there really isn’t that much more to consider. Texas has options and always will. We will be fine.
SEC- Southern Evangelical Cheaters. Since Jesus didn't specifically mention cheating in football in the New Testament, they are good to go.
by dimecoverage on Aug 22, 2011 1:04 PM CDT up reply actions 1 recs
Really?
Out of this entire piece, you choose to comment on a throwaway line that has no bearing whatsoever on the point of the article? “Hysterical portion of the Aggie fan base,” indeed.
by TexasTexasYeehaw on Aug 21, 2011 9:36 PM CDT up reply actions
Your Name Spells Your Allegiance
I think it would seem fairly obvious that PB was not attacking the program or opportunity aspect of Fish Camp, but more of the fact that even my friend who attends A&M referred to it as “Brain Wash Camp”. And as far as Texas not having programs like that… you are incorrect. We may not have a “camp” rooted in such deep tradition as Fish Camp, but we have several camps throughout the summer for students to meet people. Our orientation spans four days and is yet another opportunity. Finally, we have a program known as FIG (Freshman Interest Group) which all freshman are encouraged to join. Students enrolled in FIG meet weekly with 20-25 other students from their college, a FIG mentor (an older student also in the college) and an adviser. These students attend 3 classes together on top of that.
And, in regards to “the rudest Longhorn fans” comment… yes, I can see your point, and often these “t-shirt fans” are known to cause more trouble than good. However, it is because of these fans who are more than willing to buy into the Longhorn brand that the LHN is possible. And, I’ve found that some of the rudest “A&M” fans attended Blinn.
-S
by S_UT on Aug 21, 2011 9:48 PM CDT up reply actions 1 recs
where was the disrespect in this article? im very confused as to what you're pissed off about
formerly "Horns102591"
Pissed? Hardly.
Believe me, you would know if I was pissed. I was simply bringing to light information that was seemingly overlooked.
-S
oh no i didnt mean you
I was referring to the guy Tired of Longhorn Spin
formerly "Horns102591"
by horns1025 on Aug 22, 2011 12:53 AM CDT via mobile up reply actions
Well done Peter
Mr. Garnder does seem like a reasonable Aggie. Borderline 2 percenter IMO.
I’m fine with the Aggies leaving, but please don’t mess this up Ags. I can almost smell the fall classics in South Bend, and feel the November snow in Alta. Please use subtlety Ags, and don’t make public statements until the SEC’s attorneys give the go ahead.
billfromlaketravis (Austin Pace)
Follow me on Twitter @BFLT_at_BON
by billfromlaketravis on Aug 21, 2011 10:02 PM CDT reply actions
Leave. Please. NOW. by dimecoverage on Aug 21, 2011 7:34 PM PDT
Yes, I have issues with ugly fans from any and all schools with behaviors that devalue their respective schools. In response to my comments, I’ve been asked to unsubsribe from this site. So be it. For those of us who actually respect UT at Austin for reasons other than the semi-pro teams, I post this phrase from the “Getting Involved” page of the Longhorn website:
“The University of Texas at Austin is a community of talented and open-minded individuals from all over the world who celebrate and encourage the free exchange of ideas and cultural differences in and outside the classroom….”
by Tired of Longhorn Spin on Aug 21, 2011 10:08 PM CDT reply actions
I think you misread Dime's comment
She was saying: Leave (the Big 12) now, Texas A&M."
You ain't hurt...
Two degrees?
And you can’t figure out how to click the reply button under a post?
by danielt on Aug 22, 2011 11:17 AM CDT up reply actions 1 recs
His demeanor and tone are more subdued
but his argument is the same.
I do think there is real concern over the long term ramifications of the Longhorn Network.
This still seems to be what it boils down to, as he appears [more or less] to agree with many of the other issues you raise. I’m still waiting for a cogent synopsis as to how the Ags leaving negates Texas’ LHN advantages. Again, the Ags aren’t physically leaving. We will continue to be their primary competition when it comes to local HS recruits.
The only argument that makes sense (and in my estimation, the only one that is honest) is the massive improvement in the schedule at Kyle Field. I can’t fault the fans and students who would prefer to see Florida, Bama, and LSU rolling into town rather than Kansas and Iowa St.
Timing
The issue that most are ignoring is timing. Anyone that has been through this in Texas has discovered that you need to strike when you can. The aggies true mistake was in not pulling hte trigger a year ago, but they did not have the political backing to make the move then. After a year and even more marshalling needed they may have it now. But why do it now?
Easy, if the Big12 goes under then the previous idea was that UT would lead at the very least Tech, to the promise land of the PAc12. With Baylor in the cold. However with the LHN around UT is not likely to go to the Pac12 unless they dissolve such.(which could happen) however the independent route sits there and the BigEast or maybe even the ACC would take them in all over sports to give them a place to hang their hats. Except the real issue of going independent is that they leave Tech and Baylor behind once again. But if A&M is sitting on an SEC invite and the conference really wants them, then what do you think happens? UT points out that A&M can make taking Tech and/or Baylor the cost of admission into the SEC. Which then shackles them with the same luggage UT has carried around for decades. Get out now, and they avoid that political weight.
I say split the two
Texas has to take care of Tech, Aggies have to take care of Baylor. If they want to run off to SEC, they have to bring Baylor with them. If Texas wants to go to another conference they have to bring Tech with them. I know its not pretty, but by splitting Baylor and Lubbock giving them each a watchful school, neither the Aggies or Longhorns will get stuck with both or none.
And thats the problem
The SEC is not going to take in Baylor. They passed on UT many moons ago cause it meant taking in extra schools, they will do the same this time around. Thats why A&M has to bolt while the Big12 can still be written off to the Tx politicians as a feasible conference that can last just by replacing them. IMO it would need alot more than merely replacing them but it could survive this, but eventually UT would have to concede some power for that to work longterm.
Also do not underestimate their power position by having Perry in office and running for president, he gives them political leverage that they may never see again. The time is now or never.
by JarrenBlake on Aug 22, 2011 12:49 AM CDT up reply actions
You start out
describing him as a reasonable Aggie, then he makes all the same arguments that the emotional, unreasonable Aggies make, just with better grammar. The fact that the LHN was fine a year ago and is now the final straw makes it look like it is just the latest excuse (especially since HS games on LHN were supposedly the bad part and that is moot now).
Face it, the big-chested SEC walked by College Station a year ago and the Aggies haven’t been able to get their mind off of her since. Now everything anyone else they’re committed to does is an excuse to break off the relationship and run after her while getting to blame the other party.
If this was a bluff to get more out of UT or the Big 12, it was the largest monumental fail of a bluff ever. It would be like me trying to bluff my wife by telling her and all my kids publicly we’re taking them to Disney World in a week and privately telling her we won’t go (let’s assume she doesn’ t want to) if she does something I want. If my wife caves and I get what I want from her and call off the trip, my kids are going to kill me in my sleep for sure. At that point she and I would both know we have to go to Disney World, she’ll know she doesn’t then have to do anything for me, and we’ll both know it’s my fault even if I try to blame her.
by tdwalsh on Aug 22, 2011 12:09 AM CDT reply actions 2 recs
Sorta
But I think it’s a little more complex than that. IF the Aggies were doing this as a bluff (and I’m not convinced of that, but let’s assume, arguendo, that they were), then you also have to take into account the effect that their bluff has beyond what we may or may not know about how likely it is. In particular, it allows them to help shape the debate and puts public pressure (and some negative attention) on UT, which at the least places some limitations on us just doing what we want, when we want, how we want.
You ain't hurt...
I just don't see why it makes sense for either side.
From A&M’s side: they go from being the third-largest fish in a reasonable size aquarium to chum in a shark tank. If they couldn’t consistently compete with Texas and Oklahoma here, what makes them think they have a prayer going up against Alabama, Auburn, and LSU? The recruiting advantage of playing those teams (assuming it doesn’t drive away the local kids who want to play the teams they grew up watching) doesn’t seem to be much help for Kentucky or Ole Miss. Nothing helps recruiting like success, and A&M’s best chance of getting that is by staying where it is right now.
From the SEC’s side: because the advantages of the championship game are already built into the current setup, a 13th team (and beyond) has to bring more to the table than the existing average in order to make sense financially. I don’t think anyone outside of Texas and Notre Dame could manage that for the SEC (apart from teams in the relatively stable Pac-12 and Big Ten), and I don’t know that either would be even remotely interested (Texas might at least think about it, but there are significant cultural differences; the only question about Notre Dame would be whether their politeness lasts long enough to keep them from laughing until after they hang up the phone). A&M might not be far off, but even if their local fans are a match for the fanaticism of UT fans they don’t have the same national pull.
And that’s without even considering the unwieldiness of a “conference” where you play half the teams twice a decade. (As jonfmorse mentioned over at EDSBS, there have been a fair number of lower-division conferences that went to 16 over the years; none lasted more than five years, and I think only one made it past three.)
If what’s really driving this whole thing is the Longhorn Network, it seems to me the rational thing to do would be what K-State and Missouri have done: if you can’t beat it, imitate it (online, at least to figure out if you have the numbers to justify trying to get a cable network together).
I've got this terrible pain in all the diodes down my left-hand side.
Bradley-Terry rankings for college football and basketball: because there aren't enough computer rankings already.
by SpartanDan on Aug 22, 2011 1:49 AM CDT reply actions 1 recs
Your incorrect about how the money is calculated
Why would the Pac12 get a bigger deal than the SEC if the driving factor was successful or historic programs? This is the first line of thinking that is flawed when people discuss this. Its about television sets in the market area of the team. A&M adds the Houston market at the very least and would get to count some of the Dallas market no doubt as well. That’s a huge boost to the SEC, it would be larger than any market that they currently have. It would push the average up further than they have now. It adds an AAU school, to further move away from the error that the SEC does not care at all about academics, and it gives inroads into Texas, which is a must for further westward expansion and to avoid being boxed in border wise.
Understand expansion has nothing to do with winning games, even National titles, or easy geographical rivals. Its about money and conference security/stability. Which is TV network driven, not fan driven.
I think he answered you pretty succinctly
We’re just looking after ourselves.
texas started the lhn and ESPN offered them a huge deal/kickback, and no one can blame them for taking the money. texas did what was best for them. Why is it so hard for texas fans to understand that A&M is looking out for themselves, and doing what is best for them?
"looking out for themselves"
I hope the context of this refers to getting a large paycheck, because this is a total money move for A&M. This move sure as hell isn’t “what is best for” your football program.
I’d be pretty pissed if I were an Aggie football fan. Just when my team finally starts to become relevant in the Big XII South division and actually contends for conference championships (strengthened even more with Texas being in a rebuilding phase), my school decides to bolt for greener pastures in the SEC and set the football program back at least for another era. Sorry, but those better recruits we’ll supposedly get as a result of playing in the best football conference won’t make up for increase in competition.
by goingforthecorner on Aug 22, 2011 3:41 AM CDT up reply actions
if you think its whats best for you then you should go
we may not understand the reasoning behind the move but how many of us have taken a big anti-A&M to the SEC stance on here?
formerly "Horns102591"
Agreed. You need the money. Go, prosper in the SEC.
Nothing against Peter’s post, but I’m tired of all the talk. I wanted A&M to leave last year. My annoyance with little brother is that they held the conference hostage with their petulant demands and then wait a year to bolt. Beebe should have cut them loose in 2010.
SEC- Southern Evangelical Cheaters. Since Jesus didn't specifically mention cheating in football in the New Testament, they are good to go.
by dimecoverage on Aug 22, 2011 7:13 AM CDT up reply actions 2 recs
Same meat as on the other sites only without all the trimmings.
Granted, the guy kept it above board and that’s refreshing but he’s just as emotional under the surface as the rabid aggies are in their full frontal attacks. There will be a day in the future that I will cherish and that will be when we start seeing comments on the ag boards about how they “should have stayed in the Big 12 because at least we were kicking ass.” (the previous quote was only a simulation and should not be construed as anything other than a simulation).
Hook Em Horns!
by spinmonkey on Aug 22, 2011 6:32 AM CDT reply actions 1 recs
“Texas is 0-5 in their last five Big 12 games. Hopefully you can adapt back to the conference.”
Sorry, lost all credibility with this “Beergut” line.
"A&M has had every opportunity over the past 50 years to emerge from Texas' shadow, and failed." - Jean-Jacques Taylor
by UTLawGrad on Aug 22, 2011 9:00 AM CDT reply actions 1 recs
Typical Myopic Aggie comment
We use a stat accrued over several years. Aggie quotes a stat from one season that would serve as the biggest statistical outlier during Texas time in the Big 12.
by HornsUpInLA on Aug 22, 2011 10:40 AM CDT up reply actions
It was a joke, guys. Learn to laugh at yourselves.
by James Gardner on Aug 22, 2011 11:15 AM CDT up reply actions
It is hard to see sarcasm is a post. We need a designated font for that.
So, I can assume your line about ESPN and journalistic credibility was also a joke? :-)
SEC- Southern Evangelical Cheaters. Since Jesus didn't specifically mention cheating in football in the New Testament, they are good to go.
by dimecoverage on Aug 22, 2011 11:29 AM CDT up reply actions
just a joke...
agreed, but I have to tell you that “Learn to laugh at yourselves.” coming from an Aggie blew out my irony meter…
btw – thanks for the post. Always good to hear from the ‘sane Aggie’ contingent!
by Pflash on Aug 22, 2011 12:20 PM CDT up reply actions 1 recs
Thanks for your perspective JG
Was very interesting and nice to read a rational Aggie’s views on the issue.
We use a stat accrued over several years.
“several” by defintion means more than two
Quoting a stat from two years is not “several” years.
In any case, pointing out that you need to step up your game from a season where you were waxed by Baylor and Iowa State AT HOME is a relevant point, whether you want to admit it or not.
I'm sure you didn't mean it as much, but I'll take that as a compliment
I was thinking the same thing about texas finishing their conference season 0-5 last year, so I was glad Gardner brought it up. Peter got snarky with his comment about A&M’s record against Georgia, Arkansas, and LSU, Gardner replied in kind; nothing wrong with that.
Fair enough
There’s room to argue for Florida or Cali. I will note, however, that 25% of all D1 starting quarterbacks last year came from Texas. In any event, the point is really that it’s a hyper-rich state in terms of talent. Whether you rank us 1A, 1B, or 1C.
You ain't hurt...
Your point was understood by all who know CFB.
You can also throw in Ohio or Pennsylvania as a traditional recruiting hotbed, just not the quantity of those from Texas, Cali, or Florida.
In terms of NFL Hall of Famers, Texas leads the way.....
and everybody’s behind us…..
by SneezyBeltran on Aug 22, 2011 10:58 PM CDT up reply actions
Can Any of our Legal Friends Help on this?
Thank you for the post PB – you have fantastic talent and gift for providing perspectives on issues. (obviously not all appreciated but always thoughtful).
Can anyone tell me how it was possible to go through last year’s “alignment hell” and not come up with an ironclad legal agreement that would bind these team’s for longer than zero games? Is that on Beebe? Was DeLoss shortsighted? The Longhorn network is not a surprise – it was clearly communicated during last year’s discussions and is just immaterial to the debate.
Change isn't good or bad it just "is". Don Draper of Madmen
The ironclad legal agreement is the FOX contract.
And I don’t care what the lawyers say — the SEC and aTm are fooling themselves if they think they aren’t going to get slapped upside the head with a big ol’ lawsuit courtesy of Rupert Murdoch the day they take this thing officially public.
Rational aggy?
I had the chance to visit with my uncle-a professor at that school in college station. His comments, while not entirely rational given that he is an aggy, added a new perspective. He is of the opinion that the move to the SEC is strictly football driven and that the academic minds at the university are arguing heavily against the move. His words were “they stormed the presidents office”. The professors are truly worried about the negative impact the move will have on their “academic reputation”. We shall see who has more influence, I suppose.
If a man is alone in the woods and he speaks, if no one hears him,,is he still wrong?
There’s absolutely no way Academics will get in the way of A&M moving to the SEC. After Texas and A&M, there is a tremendous drop off in the world of academia within the conference. Furthermore, there is an SEC member with more Academic muscle than TU and A&M.
Let's be realistic
The big “drop off in the world of academia” occurs between Texas and the rest of the conference, including TAMU. I know, I know, more UT arrogance, but in all honesty, there is much less difference between, say TAMU and Iowa State in academics, than between Texas and TAMU. I am not sure which SEC member you have in mind that might rival Texas in academic credentials (Vandy, Florida??), but I think one would need to look to the Big Ten or Pac 10 to find the “Academic muscle” to which you refer.
by BurntOrange&Blue on Aug 22, 2011 8:42 PM CDT up reply actions
Iowa State, are you serious? You had significantly better options to make that flawed argument, alas...
There is no question that Vandy has more “credentials” than Texas. Rival Texas? To suggest there is a rivalry is to suggest there is a competition. There is not, nor has there ever been. You are not the top academic institution in your own state. This is the Texas arrogance which consistently blinds reality.
Again, seriously ...
My perspective may be a bit heavily influenced by the prominence of UT’s programs in the sciences, engineering, law, etc. In undergraduate medical education, UT may be less accomplished, but the GME and research (think MDACC) more than make up for that. Across the board, UT fields very good to excellent programs of study and research, making it one of the premier research and academic institutions in the nation, and easily the leader in the state. I am not talking about what the average high school parent thinks about academic prowess – I am talking about how academic departments and colleges are viewed by one another on a peer basis. There just is no other institution in the state with UT’s depth and breath, and frankly, no one in the SEC (alas, that includes Vandy) that has that combination, either. Sorry if it reality sounds like arrogance.
by BurntOrange&Blue on Aug 25, 2011 8:34 PM CDT up reply actions
Still not understanding why SEC would want to add any teams, much less the Aggies
I’m sure adding the Houston TV market and supposedly gaining a better recruiting inroad to Texas by adding the Aggies is big, but that means they’re going to have to add another school and probably three more.
16 teams change the conference dynamic quite a bit as you’d play the seven other teams in your division, only 2 teams from the other division and 3 non-cons in the current set up. Only playing two teams from the other division and doing it home and home means you only play them twice every 8 years. And in that case, I’d argue a 16 team conference is really more like two conferences with an agreement to have their respective champs meet at the end of the year.
So if I’m LSU or Bama or Auburn…I’m asking, do I want to play the Aggies every year at the cost of only getting to play teams from the East like Florida, Georgia and Tennessee twice every eight years.
Not seeing it.
Be nobody but yourself in a world that desperately wants you to be like everybody else.
by 54b on Aug 22, 2011 3:50 PM CDT reply actions 1 recs
Totally Agree
This is the most succinct statement against 16 team superconferences. Why the SEC would even dream of screwing around with what they have is a mystery. What, there’s not enough money in big time football? The big boys need more?
oh hail the Purple and White
by Furnace76 on Aug 22, 2011 4:29 PM CDT up reply actions 1 recs
I would think that the problem with the LHN is derived from its mating with ESPN.
When talk of the LHN first came up I think everybody was pretty much like “yeah whatever make a channel to show your volleyball games and baseball games and whatever else. No big deal.” Then it was announced that ESPN would be the partner I think that’s kind of when everyone else went “oh shit well that’s not the same…” I would tend to look at it like if someone came up to you and went hey I’m going to hold a kickball tournament. Do you want to form a team.? And then after you agreed to it and paid your nonrefundable entrance fee the person told you that their team was sponsered by Gatorade and they were going to help them get all the really good players since the players would obviously be more inclined to be on a team with Gatorade then some team that’s not partnered with Gatorade. You would think twice about still wanting to play in this kickball tournament.
I know that’s probably a poor analogy but it makes sense to me. I think it’s the ESPN thing that’s probably making aTm the most nervous and wanting to get away. Which I can understand and I think that most sensible Texas fans would probably understand it they thought about it objectively. I know it’s easy to go “well were Texas and that’s why we get ESPN partnership and we can do whatever the F we want and if you don’t like it then see ya.” But if you’re thinking about the long term stability of a conference that’s just not the right attitude to be had.
And I think independence would be bad for Texas right now as well. As far as football goes of course you’d be able to schedule your NCs that just wanted a paycheck every year but then who else. No team that is consistently trying to earn a BCS bowl is going to want to schedule Texas knowing that up till the game all that’s going to be said on ESPN is how good Texas is and how Texas has the advantage in this game due to such and such reasons and knowing that their kids are going to be watching ESPN and having to hear this. Then on top of that if they lose now they have to hear about it on ESPN all day for the next week. No team is going to want to play the ESPN Longhorns. And on top of that no team (because of how good Texas normally is) is going to want to sign up for a potential loss. Which (most of the time last year withstanding) is what you’d be doing. One of the only reasons Texas now has a full schedule of decent teams to play is because they’re actually in a conference.
I went on a little longer than I wanted and probably have a ton of grammatical and spelling errors but I just wanted to share my point of view and one that wasn’t associated with either Texas of aTm. Hope it makes a little sense to somebody.
Interesting take from an outside viewpoint
When talk of the LHN first came up I think everybody was pretty much like "yeah whatever make a channel to show your volleyball games and baseball games and whatever else. No big deal." Then it was announced that ESPN would be the partner I think that’s kind of when everyone else went "oh shit well that’s not the same…"
I agree that everyone was fine with anyone in the conference having a third-tier media network, including texas, because as was pointed out last Summer, every school already owned their third-tier media rights. texas wanting to create their own network was nothing new. ESPN even offering to take on the production costs didn’t faze me, because it just appeared to be a kickback to texas for not joining the Pac-10. When it caught my attention was when they said they planned on televising high school games (which brought NCAA concerns into the mix) and especially when they talked about putting other conference games on the network. I think that is when the A&M administration said, “You know, we saved this conference last Summer, but now, we know we made a mistake” I thought we made a mistake by turning down the SEC invite last Summer, and hoped we would take advantage of this second chance.
The constant bait-and-switch tactics and lying by ESPN are embarrassing. We won’t show high school games b/c there is a moratorium instituted by the Big 12, but we’ll sign Brenham High to a contract to show on of their games. We won’t show any high school games, but we’ll show highlights and claim it is news. ESPN and texas keep pushing the envelope on this issue, and it doesn’t look like they have any intention of stopping. If you have options to go elsewhere and better your situation, it is only smart to do so.
*Texas is the correct spelling of the state you live in.
You should be ashamed & embarrassed for repeatedly using such a juvenile faux pas.
Conference Realignment
All of the chaos about Texas A&M’s request for conference realignment or SEC membership could be alleviated by doing what every major sports league or organization does and that is have a governing body assign teams or schools to conferences. Can you imagine the chaos if the NFL allowed the teams to self-organize into conferences or divisions? What if the state of Texas’ high schools were allowed to choose who they compete against? The elitist, exclusionary practices surrounding conference membership have led to the BCS and hindered a playoff. Read “It’s Possible! Realignment and Playoffs – College Football’s Opportunity,” for a solution to this insanity.

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