Texas Quarterbacks: Re-Building Garrett Gilbert
by Wescott Eberts (GoBR) on Aug 22, 2011 12:19 PM CDT
in Texas Longhorns Football
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PrintWith Garrett Gilbert looking like the prospective starter once again after doing nothing more than managing the game during Friday night's all-important scrimmage, the focus must turn again to what often appears to be a damaged psyche. After bad plays -- interceptions on tipped balls, fumbles, etc -- Gilbert often displays the type of poor body language indicative of a player with little confidence.
Still, after a positive week of practice and the equally positive news that he was able to avoid throwing an interception on Friday, the talk has turned once again to whether or not he's turned a corner and suddenly become the leader that he's needed to be for some time, the leader the coaches want him to be, and a quarterback who can at the very least manage a team to the extent that he's not the clear difference between winning and losing.
Here was Scipio's take a week ago after the disastrous first scrimmage that put Gilbert's mental state into sharp, unpleasant relief:
Doom and doubt hangs over him like the stink on Pigpen in the Peanuts gang. Other players sense that. Of course, it’s all a self-perpetuating mind fuck, but when when you imagine something to be real, it is real. He has issues seeing the field and, as I’ve held since he first entered our awareness, he is a system QB with a pre-snap decision-making process trained by his high school offense. He also has a NFL QB Dad who was a career back-up and we can all work through that psychological interplay easily enough. Garrett Gilbert can lead this offense, but he must un-f**k himself. Right now Gilbert is a guy that things happen to. He needs to be the player that make things happen.
So while Bryan Harsin has spent time with Gilbert working on his mechanics in an effort to improve his ability to get the ball out more quickly and deliver it on target to the sidelines, it sounds like Major Applewhite is taking on the role of Gilbert's psychologist, reminding him that he doesn't have to do everything himself:
That was always the comforting factor for me - just understanding not everything is on you. There are other guys who need to do their job. Some of the mistakes he made last season were compounded by the situations we found ourselves in. We were having to throw the ball more because we were behind. So he gets thrust into situations where they are dropping eight and dropping nine.
We've explained to him that, 'Hey, you were put in some very tough spots last year. Having to come back against Kansas State and other teams. You were throwing the ball more than we wanted you to.' You try to explain that to him and then say, 'We're not going to put as much on your plate and put you behind the eight ball. It's going to be a little more team oriented and not as much quarterback driven as it was with Colt (McCoy) and Vince (Young).
Of course, there's a lot of sense in what Applewhite has been telling Gilbert and it's quite possible that helping him re-focus on what the offense can do to help him this season and putting last season squarely in the rearview could be one of the reasons that he's coming off his best week of fall camp needing only to avoid a complete and total meltdown to keep the job.
The concern is that while the coaches work so hard to build him up that they aren't able to coach him hard. There is certainly some evidence that Gilbert has been protected at times by the coaches, the type of protection that does little to develop the mental toughness so severely lacking at times in the Lake Travis product.
The summer story about Mack Brown promising former quarterback Sherrod Harris a chance to play in the second half of the championship game and then leaving Gilbert in was only the first in several data points suggesting that the coaches have been treating Gilbert extremely gently throughout his time in Austin. Not pulling Gilbert after five interceptions against Kansas State is unquestionably another data point, though the third is more questionable -- the article from Kirk Bohls about Gilbert being promised the job.
Contrast that treatment and Applewhite's earlier comments with this quote about wanting to put the players in pressure situations during practice to not only see how they respond, but to let them know that they have to work hard to earn or keep their jobs:
You use the word uncomfortable. You want to make them a little bit uncomfortable from the standpoint where you just can't rest on their laurels. You can't sit in the shade, and I think that's been apparent. There's been fifth-year seniors that have been starters that have seen freshmen or sophomores go ahead of them, so they've had to fight back to get those opportunities back and get those positions there. That's healthy, and that's what you want to do as a team and a coach. You want to create an environment where you're guys feel like they've got to produce to their potential every single day to earn their job.
Doesn't exactly sound like Gilbert is receiving the same treatment as the rest of the team, does it?
The perception that Gilbert didn't have to do much during the scrimmage on Friday only feeds into that notion. With the running game reportedly gashing the defense for much of the practice, Gilbert only had to take care of the football in a scrimmage that was all about creating separation with the quarterbacks. He may have won the job under little duress, never facing the type of adversity he responded to so poorly last season and during the first scrimmage.
Applewhite echoed the mostly positive reports emerging from the second scrimmage about Gilbert's play:
He took care of the ball real well. He made some really good decisions in the red zone. He made some tight throws in the red zone. Not risky throws. But every throw is tight in the red zone, and he had accurate, tight throws in the red zone. Took care of the ball, and had some formations here and there that he had to straighten out. I thought he had a clean scrimmage.
As heartening as the lack of mistakes and the redzone production are, it's still hard to believe that Gilbert somehow turned some major corner in the last week and stopped being the quarterback that he's been for his entire time at Texas. Those covering football and sports in general often like to point to the proverbial light coming on for players, but arguing that it's happened for Gilbert with no warning strikes a false note with this writer.
The coaches may not have rigged the competition to ensure that Gilbert would win it. And while what should be an improved running game can and will make things easier on the prospective starter -- much easier than last season, in fact -- what happens when Gilbert once again faces adversity, as he could as early as the BYU and UCLA games?
Will Gilbert make things happen at that point, or will he continue to let things happen to him, let his shoulders slump, and head to the sidelines pulling on his face mask, wondering why he has such poor luck?
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Totally agree
Seems highly unlikely that the switch just came on. But if it has, good for him and great for the Horns.
"They're [submissive weaklings] !"
by Ziskey rates the Aggies on Aug 22, 2011 12:35 PM CDT via mobile reply actions
Time Will Tell
I just hope the coaches have a backup plan should GG choke. This team, while under Mack Brown, has little history of making a shift as quickly as it may be required. Placing Gilbert from Starter to 3rd stringer within the same season is highly unlikely. I hope I’m wrong and GG either blows us out of the water or the likes of Case McCoy/David Ash are given the opportunity to show what they are made of.
Hook’em
by DethbyLonghorn on Aug 22, 2011 12:37 PM CDT reply actions
I'm okay with already naming GG the starter
I believe he deserves a chance to shine under a new coaching staff and a better off. coordinator
by goingforthecorner on Aug 22, 2011 1:04 PM CDT reply actions
Oh dear.
An overwhelming cloud of deja vu just entered the forecast.
If a man is alone in the woods and he speaks, if no one hears him,,is he still wrong?
Gilbert Apologist
I’m a GG apologist. Why? Because everyone else is getting a pass on GD’s incomptetence except him. That being said – he is either mentally tough enough, and mentally quick enough to process game reads – or he isn’t. All of Major’s efforts are prolly wasted breath. Even if they work on a scrimmage – they won’t in the Cotton Bowl. The one ray of hope that I have, was GG performance vs. Neb. That game, where we all agree was the best (only) game plan – he looked like a leader. He played well. I am going to believe that Mack will start the best QB, and Hairsin will get the plays in that will bring out the best in the QB.
Change isn't good or bad it just "is". Don Draper of Madmen
Do not make the mistake of using but one QB, again
The Rice game should be an opportunity to give more than QB meaningful snaps. If it is not, the season will be long. Very long.
We should recall how anguished we were when Colt was injured in a championship game. Any chance we get to give another QB snaps under pressure we should consider doing so, or we will have no QB if or when whoever finally is chosen the starter falls to injury.
Agreed.
Who goes into a National Championship game with only one plan that involves only one player? Umm,,,us. We need a backup and the backup needs a plan designed for him.
If a man is alone in the woods and he speaks, if no one hears him,,is he still wrong?
To be honest
I never agreed with the criticism that Mack should have had a backup plan (although I do agree we should have given GG more meaningful snaps earlier in the year). Who plans for their star QB to go down five plays into the game? Practically speaking, nobody. Practice time is finite.
by TheElusiveShadow on Aug 22, 2011 1:41 PM CDT up reply actions
I agree,
Gilbert didn’t get snaps early in the season because the Longhorns couldn’t close out games like Wyoming and Central Florida early enough to give Gilbert a chance. The offense struggled so much early that McCoy needed the reps himself to try to get things on track.
Follow me on Twitter: @GhostofBigRoy
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by Wescott Eberts (GoBR) on Aug 22, 2011 3:13 PM CDT up reply actions
To be fair to GG
While he may have just managed the game, he reportedly still outplayed the other quarterbacks in Friday’s scrimmage. Obviously that’s just one scrimmage and it’s not like he blew everyone out of the water, but it is still an example of him being the best on the field. If he continues to play well, he deserves to start against Rice.
by TheElusiveShadow on Aug 22, 2011 1:42 PM CDT reply actions
Harsinwhite: pressure to succeed is high, expectations different
As is clearly documented up top by Applewhite, the old system demanded the QB to be the hero. The current system calls for knowing your assignments and not turning the ball over.
The new system promotes a much more favorable risk/reward ratio. The QB still has to perform and the coaches will demand this, but the emphasis is staying within yourself, not having to go beyond. It could be that the key to Gilbert getting his head straight has as much to do with shedding the mandatory hero mindset as anything.
Coaching changes is important but coaching ADJUSTMENTS
are really important. Of course the old system required a QB-hero, we had VY and Colt running the show. But GD never made the adjustment from Colt to GG and I almost can’t blame him. Gilbert was hyped unlike any QB coming out of high school.
but GD was supposed to recognize whether GG was overhyped or as advertised
See ya later, alligator.
by Paleface Horn on Aug 22, 2011 3:35 PM CDT up reply actions
I wish we could stop talking about the QB
For the last three years we’ve had the same problem, and GG finding his spirit animal won’t fix it. Nor will some kind of divine David Ash intervention.
Let me throw out some rankings for you 65th, 68th, 54th, 10th. Those are our yards per carry statistics for 2010, 2009, 2008 and 2007.
The real question to me is… can Harsin-White create a 5.0+ ypc running game from the tools they have available?
If they can, then either Ash or Gilbert will look good under center. Lower pressure environment, lower pressure pocket, and easier reads will benefit whoever is there under center.
If our running game continues to be troubled, whoever is under center will be in a serious situation. We’ll just ruin Ash along with Gilbert if we throw him to the wolves.
Luckily Harsin-White seems to be thinking straight and seek to establish a systematic power rushing attack as the bread and butter of this offense.
I, for one, am hoping that the QB can take a back seat this season to the O-Line, FB’s, and RB’s.
by notsofst on Aug 22, 2011 1:49 PM CDT reply actions 1 recs
I agree and disagree
because QB play still dictates all. Remember, Colt and VY always had less than stellar RB’s and it never really fazed them.
I think I'm still not getting through
First, you’re referring to two of the most mobile QB’s in recent CFB history. For whatever reason, it seems GDGD was not able to keep that kind of production going and that’s why he hit the road.
Second, my whole point is that we need to get away from this mindset.
Did Greg McElroy “dictate all” when Alabama took that trophy from us? No, he was a punching bag for our defense. A solid O-Line performance behind some talented backs won them a trophy with a QB that could punish a defense just when they over-committed to the run.
We cannot support another offense where one player is the offense. All this ruminating about the QB situation is missing the point of the need for us to reduce, by an order of magnitude, the responsibilities of the QB position in order to succeed.
The “If Garrett Gilbert was Vince Young, well then…” line of reasoning goes nowhere.
The “What the fuck do we do when we aren’t starting Vince Young…” line of reasoning is where we need to be. Thankfully, Harsin-White seem to be on this page as well.
Simply untrue
VY had Cedric Benson in 2003-2004 and he had Selvin Young, a decent back, as well as Jamaal Charles in 2005 (JC would have eclipsed 1,000 yards his frosh year if he didn’t get injured). Colt had Charles in 2006-2007. Our run game was mediocre to bad in 2008 and 2009, , but Chris O. gave us some competency in 2008. It’s just not true that Vince and Colt never had good RBs.
by TheElusiveShadow on Aug 22, 2011 9:19 PM CDT up reply actions
I think his point was that ...
… VY & Colt did not have a dominant running backs in their most dominant years: VY 2005, Colt 2008 & 9. It sure didn’t phase ’em in those years as they became seasoned vets leading the offense by sheer will.
Go back and look at the 2009 season
And remember how much that offense had moments of extreme struggle. Colt was a magician but even he had a lot of trouble with an impotent rushing attack.
In addition, “less than stellar” does not equal “not dominant.” He was insinuating VY never had a good RB, which is just patently false. I consider Vince to be the best college player I’ve ever seen, but it is a myth that he did it all on his own. He had a very talented team around him, including the runningbacks, in 2005.
by TheElusiveShadow on Aug 23, 2011 1:25 PM CDT up reply actions
I'll add to this point
Statistically, the fellows over at BC kind of showed that Colt was only in a productive offense due to an uncharacteristically high number of third down conversions.
The fact that Colt/Shipley or Colt/Quan were able to convert on 3rd down almost every time, made that offense successful, and hid the fact that 1st and 2nd downs were doing terrible.
Once our third down conversion rate dropped to human, or even below average levels… offensive production completely stopped.
The point remains valid.
“…Colt and VY always had less than stellar RB’s and it never really fazed them.”
This was his basic point – for which I was referring to. I’ll remove the 2009 year but VY in 2005 and Colt in 2008 stand as perfect examples of this simple point. I loved Selvin, Ramonce, and Ogbannaya but, nonetheless, they were NOT dominant rushers, yet, VY & Colt gave the most dominating performances of their careers. It’s inarguable. The point is that a great rushing game and a stellar ballcarrier would do wonders for Garrett Gilbert’s performance.
If receivers are still dropping balls
NO QB will shine. They need each other to look good. From the stuff Ive been readin/hearin at the Longhorns team site is the receivers are still having problems. How good can a QB be if his receivers are droppin catchable balls. Everyone on the planets knows GG isnt a scramblin QB so if catchable balls are bein dropped GG is pretty much useless.
"Stability is a factor in teams that win the championship. But if you stabilize on a team that's going to end up short of that, then all you're doing is spinning your wheels in the 45-win range."-----Daryl Morey
by fanoflosingteams on Aug 22, 2011 1:59 PM CDT reply actions
My concern is as much about the team's confidence in GG as in his ability to bounce back
We all know that he has the physical attributes to be an above-average to great QB. As others have said, who knows if it’s possible that the switch has been flipped but that seems to be the ingredient he’s been missing.
What I really wonder about is whether the team will have his back when the first pick comes. We’ve all heard the great things players have said about Ash and that he may even have a few endorsements among them.. can they rally behind GG and keep a good attitude?
Official Member of the Joe Bergeron Fan Club
The staff seems to have received the
results they set out to get.Wonder if the unit of measurement on all the QBs was the same. Reminds me of the troll asking three questions in Monty Python & the Holy Grail.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pWS8Mg-JWSg
Gilbert’s struggles bring back memories of Chris Simms & amazing similarities:
All world high school player, “given” the job at Texas, stong armed, pro football father so reading defenses & understanding the game should be an asset, inexplicable mistakes, & loss of confidence once things head south.
true....
at least Simms mixed in some very good games against decent competition during his 2 full seasons starting at Texas. We have yet to see that from GG (Fla Atlantic doesn’t count).
Couldn't agree more
Simms had some amazing performances. I always thought he was greatly undervalued by our fanbase. The only melted down game i recall was Colorado in the Championship game. My opinion was Gred Davis never gave him a chance to beat OU. Gilbert hasn’t approached Simms level of play. I was only pointing out the off the field similarities.
GOBR's post pretty much sums up...
… my concerns about the quarterback situation. If true, all this nurturing and rigged competition is not doing Gilbert, or more importantly Texas, any favors. I think there’s a very strong probability that we will be in multiple situations this season where we need heroic QB play to win the game, despite an offensive scheme designed to avoid it. If his psyche is so fragile to require intensive care, I don’t think he’s the guy to provide that heroism.
What you're saying makes sense to me.
We can’t afford to waste the QB position (hyperbole) just because other aspects of the offense are performing well. We WILL need a gamer at QB on more than one occasion and more often than not in the tough games. We are not likely to beat OU or umat with below average QB play. The Ds will simply load up against the run. Thinking we don’t have to worry about QB if the rest of the O performs well is the opposite of seasons passed (i.e., we didn’t need to focus on recruiting, development and conditioning of RBs and O-linemen and have a coherent game plan if Colt/Vince/GG played well), but possibly just as dangerous. Past: We can get by with our talent advantage; we don’t need better schemes. Present: We have better schemes; we don’t need the best players. Novel idea: why don’t we utilize the best players and schemes?
See ya later, alligator.
by Paleface Horn on Aug 22, 2011 2:43 PM CDT up reply actions
Run Game
When was the last time we forced OU to load up against the run? We want them to load up against the run because that means the run is working. Any competent QB should be able to take advantage of playaction against a D that is loading the box. Even Gilbert.
what an indictment of GG
Any competent QB should be able to take advantage of playaction against a D that is loading the box. Even Gilbert.
Does your statement imply that GG is something less than competent, or merely competent? Neither sounds like what I would hope for in my QB, on a team that would like to return to national prominence. Is that the best we got?
See ya later, alligator.
by Paleface Horn on Aug 22, 2011 9:16 PM CDT up reply actions
Actually
I think Gilbert will be surprisingly good this season. Much better than the naysayers expect. I just wrote that because the comments have been excessively negative.
I understand.
And I hope you optimism is rewarded positively.
See ya later, alligator.
by Paleface Horn on Aug 22, 2011 9:39 PM CDT up reply actions
Not sure I agree
Doesn’t exactly sound like Gilbert is receiving the same treatment as the rest of the team, does it?
Except that practice reports indicated that Ash & McCoy were receiving reps last week and Gilbert watched from the sidelines (after his his poor performance in the 1st scrimmage).
I've long believed...
in college, QB’s are system guys. He was recruited to run the spread and we abandoned that offense and it has been the death of GG the spread QB. It is what he knows and what he excelled at. Switching to a more “pro set” offense with no legitimate TE threat is futile. I believe the switch was an overreaction to the loss to Bama. There was no reason to abandon what had worked so well with the talent we had. When you couple it with an abysmal defense, you have a recipe for disaster. That is what happened last season: a freaking disaster.
I am quite thankful that at DKR, I do not have to listen to chants of "Big 12" echoing throughout.
agreed on all counts
See ya later, alligator.
by Paleface Horn on Aug 22, 2011 2:59 PM CDT up reply actions
Los Dos Centavos......
Mully, I guess I’ve read about, oh, 200 posts about the trials and tribulations of GG since last year and yours made the most sense of any so far. As many would agree, the “loss to Bama” prolly doesn’t come about with Colt in the game, so would the change have been made if we’re victors in the MNC?? Sorry, I have to put this on Mack & Co. for changing something that was dominating at the time.
Id also include the linemen
The linemen recruited were recruited because they fit the system Texas was running. The linemen Texas recruited probably played nothing but spread systems their whole HS career. Texas basically tried to change what the whole roster grew up on in one season and we saw the results. There is a reason why spread linemen arent drafted in early rounds to teams who like to run the ball.
"Stability is a factor in teams that win the championship. But if you stabilize on a team that's going to end up short of that, then all you're doing is spinning your wheels in the 45-win range."-----Daryl Morey
by fanoflosingteams on Aug 22, 2011 4:38 PM CDT up reply actions
Great point that is not mentioned enough.
I am quite thankful that at DKR, I do not have to listen to chants of "Big 12" echoing throughout.
by Mulliganville on Aug 22, 2011 4:59 PM CDT up reply actions
Weren't the Longhorns basically a spread offense from about
Oklahoma on?
Andy's Kolb was really bad so Andy hatched a plan, when his Kolb said play me now, Andy shouted no and ran. Andy tricked his mean old Kolb and traded him to the Cardinals, The Cardinals didn't know Kolb sucked, because Andy never told them
To me, they were mired in an identity crisis from the UCLA game on.
I am quite thankful that at DKR, I do not have to listen to chants of "Big 12" echoing throughout.
by Mulliganville on Aug 22, 2011 5:00 PM CDT up reply actions
GG is the Michael Cera of UT quarterbacks.
3/19/2009 & 12/15/2009 - Games Where Dogus Balbay Made a Three-Pointer. Never Forget.
without the charlie brown music
it’s just not the same
so supposedly Gilbert had a huge come to Jesus moment?
Wasn’t that have supposed to happen after the BCS Title Game in 2009? I’ve long been a Garrett Gilbert supporter but I’ve gotta say unless he continues to play well in practice he shouldn’t get the start against Rice. One good practice shouldn’t put him over the top. The second thing that comes to mind is it says in this practice the offense “gashed” the defense with the run………are you telling me that still ain’t fixed? I’m not so sure that hearing the defense got gashed by our offense’s run game is a very good sign for our defense….I’m sorry guys I’m in a downer kind of mood
formerly "Horns102591"
by horns1025 on Aug 22, 2011 3:03 PM CDT via mobile reply actions
From what I've gathered
Schools like OU, A&M and Ok St aren’t really fielding run-stuffing fronts either. It’s going to come down to who wins in the trenches on any given saturday.
3/19/2009 & 12/15/2009 - Games Where Dogus Balbay Made a Three-Pointer. Never Forget.
Let's be honest here...
We’re not going to flip a switch and all of sudden be running the ball like Alabama. If it was that easy, everybody would be doing it. We’re still trying to duck tape together an offensive line that has moved everyone around and has no experience playing together. Combat that with a new offensive scheme we’re trying to learn. Then we’re relying on fragile Fozzy and two true freshman running backs to get the bulk of our carries. Call me pessimistic but who in their right mind would bet on us having a solid running game this year? Remember how great our running game was looking at this time last year also?
This propaganda that a recent talking with GG has now turned him into Andrew Luck is very unlikely. No matter how the coaches try to sugar coat it, our QB play will determine how far this team goes. If GG can’t handle the pressure of having to carry the team, then we need to find a different QB. This is pretty much the same collection of players that went 5-7 last year, we will get behind during the season and need a QB that can get us back into the game with their arm. A QB either has it or they don’t. Unfortunately, you can’t teach a QB the intangibles no matter how hard you try.
Agreed!
If GiGi can’t handle it, then we better make the switch!!
by foolishTendency on Aug 22, 2011 7:54 PM CDT up reply actions
I am betting on us having a solid running game this year.
And I don’t ever recall our running game looking particularly explosive last year.
Follow me on Twitter: @GhostofBigRoy
Burnt Orange Nation
by Wescott Eberts (GoBR) on Aug 22, 2011 10:45 PM CDT up reply actions
There was this...
And if the sonofabitches are gone, then it is goodbye. Good enough. nt-whills
by run Bevo run on Aug 23, 2011 3:33 PM CDT up reply actions
That's what he gets for not learning
the 6 plays in GD’s playbook.
See ya later, alligator.
by Paleface Horn on Aug 24, 2011 8:27 AM CDT up reply actions
I hope your right...
I have a hard time seeing all the pieces coming together anytime soon to produce a solid running game.
Actually....
We’renotgoing to flip a switch and all of sudden be running the ball likeAlabamaBoise.
FTFY
We're also working with elite talent, not WAC/MWC talent
But I do agree, it’s an experiment. Not a done deal. Should make for an exciting season.
2001 flashback
oh my, reading this post reminds me of Texas- Colorado at Texas Stadium when all we had to do was WIN to go to the MNC. but daddy Mack left Chrissy Simms in just long enough. hopefully, very early in the season when this happens with GG we “have a back up plan”. please, pretty please.
ut1ou2 for texas-ou weekend
2001 Flashback
+1. Best case, the rest of the team picks up the slack and the switch is delayed until during/after we face the first quality opponent on a major stage (OU) . Worst case, GiGi (nod to foolishTendency) stinks it up all the way to the Red River Shootout and this thing turns into 2010, v2.0. I don’t buy the overnight transformation of Gilbert from dud to stud, and based on past experience (here’s looking at Applewhite), my money is on the latter.
by DethbyLonghorn on Aug 22, 2011 10:05 PM CDT up reply actions
Gilbert
While not a Gilbert homer I do think that he was put in an untenable position last year. He fought, played tough early in the season and (I think) started trying to be someone he wasn’t, Colt or VY, by pressing and attempting to win games singlehandedly. He progressively put more pressure on himself and certainly had his confidence damaged by the end of the season. I am amazed at the number of fans that seem to blame him for last seasons debacle. I doubt that many quarterbacks could have had great sucess.
While i agree that if he cannot handle it he should be pulled I do think he deserves an opportunity to play with Longhorn support.
If This Is True...
…then we’re in for another very, very, very long season. And, if true, then Mack Brown has hitched his cart to a lame horse that WILL cost him his job!! GG is such a f’n pu$$y!
I wasn’t as hard on MB as I thought about being last season because up until then he had a hell of a decade and it’s hard to argue with the success he built here. But starting GG in spite of his obvious loserness self with young, hungry guys chomping at the bit and very little separation if any between GG and them is an affirmation and continuation of that poor personnel decision.
If true, he’s done that twice now at UT, both times favoring the son of a NFL QB over better players. I’m disgusted, hopefully this report is a misdirect. Mack, you better get this right – or don’t let the door hit you on your ass on the way out!!
wow...
Just wow….did you just say don’t let the door hit you on the way out to Mack Brown? I’m sorry do you want to go back to the Mackovic years?
formerly "Horns102591"
by horns1025 on Aug 22, 2011 9:14 PM CDT via mobile up reply actions
why did you assume that firing Mack Brown
would revert UT to the Mackovic years? Couldn’t we hire a quality coach?
See ya later, alligator.
by Paleface Horn on Aug 22, 2011 9:19 PM CDT up reply actions
we could hire a quality coach
But I think we owe Mack a little more than “don’t let the door hit you”
formerly "Horns102591"
by horns1025 on Aug 22, 2011 9:37 PM CDT via mobile up reply actions
I accept what you are saying now,
but your previous comment implied that we would necessarily hire neo-Mackovic if Mack were fired.
See ya later, alligator.
by Paleface Horn on Aug 22, 2011 9:43 PM CDT up reply actions
i dont know what would happen if we fired Mack
And I sure as hell don’t wanna find out what would happen anytime soon I think Mack still has some good years ahead at Texas and if we are lucky who knows maybe he can retire on stage after accepting the National Championship Trophy.
formerly "Horns102591"
by horns1025 on Aug 22, 2011 9:52 PM CDT via mobile up reply actions
That's how I would want it to go down
Mack riding off into the sunset with a Huge W and UT’S 5th MNC
Nor Do I
I Want MB to take us back to the level of success he’s had during tenure. Unfortunately, hitching his cart to the GG horse is a losing proposition, and will set the program back 3+ years as better QB’s transfer and the eventual new one will take a year or two to fully learn the system before we get back to a MNC opportunity.
But if he wises up and quits slurping the nuts of former NFL QB fathers of UT QB’s I have every faith and confidence he will lead us back to the promised land and be able to retire a storybook ending to a great career.
Who's going to transfer?
Wood might transfer. McCoy isn’t going anywhere. If Ash were to start, all 3 QBs would transfer.
I don't understand.
Why would McCoy transfer if Ash starts, but not transfer if GG starts? If GG starts, assuming McCoy is redshirted, he will have only 2 years of eligibility after GG. And who’s to say he would beat out Ash or Brewer either of those years? And who’s to say Ash doesn’t transfer if MB shafts him? And if GG would rather transfer than try to win back the reins, who wants him anyway?
See ya later, alligator.
by Paleface Horn on Aug 23, 2011 8:23 AM CDT up reply actions
Face it
McCoy isn’t going to beat out Ash or Brewer. Brewer is Harsin’s handpicked QB of the future. Ash is already beating out McCoy (at the very least equal) and has more physical tools. If Ash is QB now, McCoy may never start. If GG starts, he’s got 2 years, both of which he’ll still have to contend with Ash and Brewer. Ash won’t transfer while he’s still got a redshirt available. I wouldn’t expect him to even consider it until Brewer starts pushing him for time, and that could be 2 years away.
Would you prefer that GG start now
because you think Ash will redshirt and McCoy will stay, as the back-up? Do you really want McCoy to be the back-up over Ash if Ash is beating McCoy right now?
See ya later, alligator.
by Paleface Horn on Aug 23, 2011 9:32 AM CDT up reply actions
I think Ash will get playing time early this season,
even if (probably “when”) GG starts, unless the Ash reports we have heard are bullshit or Ash’s progress takes a nosedive.
See ya later, alligator.
by Paleface Horn on Aug 23, 2011 9:35 AM CDT up reply actions
This is what I would prefer
I want Ash to get individual packages that won’t create a media storm about a QB competition—something like Tebow and Leak. If GG fails at some point, increase Ash’s playing time. I don’t trust McCoy at all. Much less than I trust Gilbert, honestly.
No, I Absolutely Don't
And I give MB tons of credit for bringing the program to what it was until 2009. But if he sticks with GG despite the most blatant and obvious signs that GG SUCKS and couldn’t lead his team through the mural paper being held between the locker rooms and the field then he’s obviously made the same deal with the devil that he did with Chrissy Simms’ dad: NFL QB legacy sons start at UT over better talent. Period. And if the program suffers, so be it, because whatever grand bargain he apparently makes with these guys obviously comes first.
And that, my fellow Longhorn, is a fireable offense this second time around (IF it happens), because we know better and have seen it before, and MB has to be smarter than that. And that kind of poor, selfish decision making negates enough of the good he’s done to justify the “don’t let the door hit you” sentiment, IMNSHO.
so its impossible for Gilbert to have turned a mental corner and actually come out and be a simple game managing QB? now if he cant maintain this good performance and starts sucking it up in practice again so be it bench him and start someone else but if he continues to perform well in practice then give him a chance and see how he does again BYU and UCLA before throwing him into the waste bin permanently
formerly "Horns102591"
So...You Would Have Ash/McCoy/Wood Face OU in a First Start?
Yes, Gilbert is no kind of NCAA BCS-caliber QB. He’s a complete and total bust. Period. It’s not in his DNA. Not one, not one single game did he show he could compete. EVERY underclassman QB who’s started and struggled and eventually went on to be good showed glimmers of hope in otherwise poor seasons. They suffer from inconsistency. The only thing GG was consistent at was sucking badly. Again, I’ve begged on this board for some GG supporter to point to a glimmer, however faint, that GG demonstrated in 2010. Don’t EVEN try to say NU was that game. His scrambles were the only thing that he did marginally well at. But he also had fumbles and what, like 4 near-picks that he threw in the defenders mitts, so perfectly they dropped them because the couldn’t believe how easy the INT’s were about to be.
Your scenario would let GG start the team 1-2 (can he beat Rice this time around?). Okay, we’ve got Iowa St – in Ames this time – who beat us at home last season (yeah, let that sink in again, GG lost to ISU at home!). Do we put Ash/McCoy/Wood in there for the first time? Or do the coaches think, “well, it’s just lowly ISU, they got lucky last year, we can help rebuild GG’s confidence there ahead of OU”, only to lose and THEN put the next QB on the depth chart in for a first start against OU as we’re sitting there at 1-3?
That thought makes me nauseous. And yet if you’re faith in GG prevails among the coaches the thought becomes the reality. Maybe you like the taste of barf in your mouth, but I sure as hell don’t!
I Make This Vow Today
If I’m wrong about GG and he turns out to be the guy who performs well enough to make UT successful again I WILL VIDEOTAPE MYSELF EATING MY OWN PUKE and post it here for all y’all’s entertainment. And I don’t define success as some minor bowl game following a 6-6 or 7-5 season. If he leads us to 9 wins (UT’s minimum standard under MB before 2010) in this or next season you GG apologists will have a good laugh at my expense.
Just know that it’s not in MY DNA to do something like that – ever – and I wouldn’t make a vow like that if I remotely believed there was ANY chance I’d have to follow through on it. Garret. Gilbert. Sucks. That. Bad.
when did i apologize for him?
im just saying give him a 2nd chance under Harsin. and as for Ash or McCoy getting their first ever start against OU if Gilbert sucks against UCLA and BYU…..does it make us any less likely to win? the odds are pretty stacked against us in that game anyways. besides for the last few years whichever team out rushes the other wins so as long as Gilbert can simply make 3rd down throws and not turn the ball over and manage the offense he can be a success. and when i say let Gilbert have a chance against BYU and UCLA i mean wait till you see how he does against one of those teams before you throw him away permanently. i believe people have said it before…why do certain players get a pass because of Greg Davis’s playcalling and scheme but Garrett Gilbert doesnt?
formerly "Horns102591"
I Like Your Optimism 1025
But I think you’re trying to make Filet Mignon out of roadkill.
here's my question
what if we start Case or David and they suck just as much as Gilbert there’s no guarantee that just starting a new QB will mean the new one will have success they could be just as bad as Gilbert or even worse
formerly "Horns102591"
Here's My Answer
I’m not sure if I’ll go out on a limb for McCoy given the reviews he’s received. But I guar-un-tee that even if Ash has a poor season as a true freshman he will many glimmers of hope, unlike GG, and will have three more years to go from being inconsistently good to consistently good. When (not if, but when) GG sucks consistently…again…this season (if he’s our starter) we’ll end up starting Ash in 2012 (unless MB’s contract with daddy Gilbert isn’t up until 2013), he’ll have used up a year of eligibility as a backup who comes in for trick plays and go through his inconsistent to consistent growing pains a year later, meaning we only have two years for him to get good enough to take us back to the MNC. GG being UT’s starting QB gives us no upside to that end, and delays a real NCAA BCS QB from getting the work in to get us back there.
you can guarantee that?
you can guarantee that the true freshman whos last game was against a high school can show us glimmers of hope in his first year?
formerly "Horns102591"
Before GG Does, I GUAR-UN-TEE
Refer back to my videotape vow.
Interesting...
I think I may actually hold you to this.
I don’t think GG and 9+ wins are out of the question. So let’s get the rules straight here… GG remains starter all year and we win 9+ wins including our bowl game?
Gilbert glimmers of hope
The Nebraska game ugly stats and all, was Gilbert doing what it takes to win. The National Championship game where Gilbert all brought us to 24-21 with 3 min to go and the ball in our hands after coming off the bench a true freshman who had been possibly not prepared as well as he should have been by the coaches. I just want the best guy, but to me, these are “glimmers” of the type of gamer, a la VY or Colt that UT seems to need. Stat wise obviously both of those games were poor for Gilbert except for the nearly 80 yards rushing on a tough Nebraska D and 3 second half National Championship tosses against a stout Bama D but isn’t that what a “gamer” does? Victory with or without the good stat game? Seems that is the problem with Gilbert, out of over a dozen samples to choose from, against several week teams, there seems to be only two games where he has had this type of game.
by Steven Johnson on Aug 24, 2011 5:50 AM CDT up reply actions
...Not cool
“With Garrett Gilbert looking like the prospective starter once again” This is how far I got before I was sent into a downward spiral of deciding whether or not I want to watch us play offense at all this season. I’m legitimately going to be angry if I have to see him throwing the ball for us in any future games.
TEXAS FIGHT
Come on
I’m deciding whether it’s worth repeating the reasons why it might be worth it to at least let him have a second chance before you decide to jump off the wagon on your team.. suffice it to say that if he isn’t performing, the hook will be swift. Try to find it in yourself to support GG, or at least see if he passes the eye test in the Rice game.
Official Member of the Joe Bergeron Fan Club
I guess he's pretty sure that GG ain't it.
I doubt he would agree with your reasons.
See ya later, alligator.
by Paleface Horn on Aug 22, 2011 9:25 PM CDT up reply actions
That's dumb.
"Hey, don't y'all think that's beautiful right there? That crystal is SO beautiful. And it's coming home to Texas." - Vince Young
OK Mack, The starting qb should've been picked by now.
We’re taking steps backwards now.
The QB is picked by now.
They picked Garrett Gilbert.
"Hey, don't y'all think that's beautiful right there? That crystal is SO beautiful. And it's coming home to Texas." - Vince Young
Hope
I look back at the OU game and wonder where that kid went. He was actually good enough to win that day. 27-41 250+ yds and 1 int. That was a solid game for first time. So I know he is capable of playing. he regressed as season went on. I am just hoping he pulls his head out of his ass and gets back to that level
Body language is something that's been talked about a lot by the coaches.
And that’s encouraging. Hopefully, they’ve been emphasizing that in camp, too. Gilbert’s got a lot of talent. He has a big arm. He can make some really big throws. Confidence will come with time and positive experiences. He should be really thankful that the fans and the coaches didn’t turn on him and give up on him. Now he has to use that gratitude and show us it wasn’t a mistake.
I really think his strength is throwing the long ball. Hopefully, the play action will set this up. Surely, he’s a lot more mature now than he was. There’s nothing I’d like to see more than for him to light it up and shove it in everyone’s faces.
Eli Manning had 25 interceptions last year. Good quarterbacks can have bad years. We’ll see if that’s the case with Garrett Gilbert.
"Hey, don't y'all think that's beautiful right there? That crystal is SO beautiful. And it's coming home to Texas." - Vince Young
Just read a practice report
For the second day in a row, Gilbert outplayed the other QBs. Ash had a good day too, but he’s still #2, and he’ll definitely have his own package of plays different from Gilbert. All we really need Gilbert to do is move the chains. We should have a ground game this year. Unlike last year, we’re actually doing things to create holes in the line.
I guess Gilbert is peaking at the right time.
So that’s cool.
Follow me on Twitter: @GhostofBigRoy
Burnt Orange Nation
by Wescott Eberts (GoBR) on Aug 22, 2011 11:05 PM CDT up reply actions
The first season after Chris Simms completed his eligibility
I was watching UT’s first game with a friend who went to school at Northwestern. (No)Chance Mock was starting. My friend said that Horn fans would miss Simms. I disagreed and pointed to the fact that we had this stud named Vince Young in the wings. I seriously doubt that Ash is another VY, but he might be far superior to what we have, if the coaches give him an equal chance.
I don’t think I will miss GG either.
See ya later, alligator.
Ash seems to have more upside
agree with the contract MB has with GG’s daddy
The most troubling things to me about GG
1) Even when he’s accurate, he’s not throwing spirals – which explains some some of the reason his passes get dropped. If he had a quick release, a couple of fluttering passes would be acceptable (Peyton Manning seems to sacrifice some spin for a quicker release), but we all know GG has trouble with a slow release. Even the recent touchdown highlights of Gilbert show his ball fluttering towards his target. It’s ugly.
2) He has no touch – he passes seem to only have one speed and no lofted trajectory (their all on a rope). For example, he throws descending darts to running backs standing 5 yards away. This again, explains the dropsies from his pass targets.
The sad thing is, I don’t think GG will be resolving these issues anytime soon. Ash has the best mechanics, spiral and touch…but i’m guessing right now he his too slow through his progressions to trust him as QB1.
I hope Ash wins the job by Week 2 because I think we’ll need his legs and improv skills. I’m of the mindset that you only play CFB for one reason…to win national championships (or go to a BCS bowl as a secondary goal) and I think Ash gives us a standard deviation high enough to give us a chance to win a natty this year whereas GG gives us absolutely no chance. Not to mention, playing Ash as the starter this year will greatly improve our odds for a natty next year.
Texas Quarterback
Your article is right on. GG throws were always a little off, causing the receiver to tip the ball incomplete or were intercepted. I am not sure why but his passes were hard to handle by all the receivers. I watched the spring game and I was watching the same thing I had seen during the Texas losing season. Texas A&M changed quarterbacks and look what it did for them. Why recruit other quarterbacks if the position is fixed?? I would like to see someone else have a real opportunity.
Forget the dime-store
….psychology, I’ll just be looking to see if GG can get balanced over his feet, stop telegraphing routes to the defense with his eyes and show a little guile when handling the ball on play action. There were a lot of straightorward mechanics that he stood to improve and, once corrected, his leadership potential can emerge.
Ash or bust
GG is exponentialy(sp?) worse the SIMMS. he is a junior and is neck and neck with a true freshman. GG still runs with his LT cliche, he pouts and throws his helmet when he
(often) throws an interception (during the spring game) and MOST IMPORTANTLY the
other players DON’T LIKE HIM>he is not a LEADER. MB, you better remember your mistake with Simms or tragedy will strike you down. I say GG rides the pine or the mackovic years will be back (sadly) and i’m getting to old to go to every losing game.
deloss can kiss my foundation money goodbye. and MB will pay for not firing GD after the 2003 season when he had the chance but not the guts.
(but of course i could be completely wrong which happens often:)
ut1ou2 for texas-ou weekend
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