Conference Realignment Rumors
by Peter Bean on Aug 23, 2011 2:42 PM CDT
in Texas Longhorns Football
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PrintI wouldn't respond to this with a full post, but I'm receiving emails asking about this article at Barking Carnival on realignment, so let's get a few things out there. I've got a busy day at work so we'll keep this short and sweet.
To begin with, the poster's source may know Texas, but he's clueless about Notre Dame. There is exactly a zero percent chance that Notre Dame would join the Big 12. Literally: zero. What *is* possible is something of an affiliation of independents. And even, perhaps, Texas and Notre Dame both going to another conference, such as the Big 10 or Pac 16. But there should be absolutely no doubt whatsoever that Notre Dame would never join the Big 12. Ever.
Second, while it is definitely the case that Texas wouldn't be displeased by A&M taking their tractors to the SEC, the idea that we're actively facilitating the move to happen in the next week doesn't make any sense. They have the rope in their hands and we're content to let the Aggies hang themselves in due course. We won't be shoving them off the stool; the politics don't make sense. (And no, if/once they run away, we won't continue playing them.)
Most importantly, this is just a good time to note that this conference realignment stuff isn't the same thing as practice reports or recruiting information. Conference realignment is a deeply complex and dynamic situation, with a lot of stakeholders and a lot of moving parts, and like all good high-stakes games of incomplete information, there's a lot of smoke, rumor, and misdirection out there. I can't tell you how many times someone who gives me terrificly insightful information on practices or other things related to the football program will share with me what they're hearing on the realignment front and I just have to smile politely, nod, and thank them for sharing.
With conference realignment, for the most part people do not know what they think they know. Even well-connected folks.
UPDATE: To be clear, that last paragraph applies to me, as well. I don't claim to know everything that's going on. I hear a lot of stuff, some of which could be correct, and some of which I feel certain is wrong. I could see the Aggies announcing their departure to the SEC by the end of the month. But I can't see Notre Dame joining the Big 12. Now, or ever.
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Agree
What would ND gain from joining the big 12?
1. They already have a way better BCS tie-in. If my memory serves me right, I think all they need is 10 wins or a top 8 finish and they have to go to a BCS game. In the big 12 they would have to compete with OU/Texas every season to go to a BCS game.
2. they have a great conference for Basketball.
3. That is actually all I have, but I think the BCS tie-in stuff stands alone.
Hook 'em
ND has no incentive to join a conference. They get a better deal as an independent.
SEC- Southern Evangelical Cheaters. Since Jesus didn't specifically mention cheating in football in the New Testament, they are good to go.
by dimecoverage on Aug 23, 2011 3:06 PM CDT up reply actions
Is it true that NBC is going to put ND on Must See Thursday Nights
Got to fill that Seinfeld hole some how.
Be nobody but yourself in a world that desperately wants you to be like everybody else.
All-Access ND, like ESPN’s shows on the Land Thieves?
SEC- Southern Evangelical Cheaters. Since Jesus didn't specifically mention cheating in football in the New Testament, they are good to go.
by dimecoverage on Aug 23, 2011 3:08 PM CDT up reply actions
Looking forward to watching Brian Kelly sort his Holly Cards at the Groto.
Be nobody but yourself in a world that desperately wants you to be like everybody else.
Or Holy Cards
Be nobody but yourself in a world that desperately wants you to be like everybody else.
Why is it assumed
that Texas won’t play the ags again? Don’t get me wrong, I have no problem with this, but what’s the long-term logic there? It seems like the childishness of their impetuous move will diminish after a few years and the rivalry will renew.
"Well, a guy did a Horns down to him. You just shouldn’t do that."
Nothing for us to gain
They’re essentially leaving because texas sux, and well, fine, if they want to go 4-7 over in the SEC they can do so, but hell if we’re going to give them a season redemption game at the end of the year.
You ain't hurt...
What will the Aggies live for if they don’t have the t-sips?
SEC- Southern Evangelical Cheaters. Since Jesus didn't specifically mention cheating in football in the New Testament, they are good to go.
by dimecoverage on Aug 23, 2011 3:08 PM CDT up reply actions
Tall grass
Be nobody but yourself in a world that desperately wants you to be like everybody else.
by 54b on Aug 23, 2011 3:08 PM CDT up reply actions 3 recs
We keep you around just for the entertainment.
SEC- Southern Evangelical Cheaters. Since Jesus didn't specifically mention cheating in football in the New Testament, they are good to go.
by dimecoverage on Aug 23, 2011 3:09 PM CDT up reply actions
Velcro flys
So they can sneak up on the sheep
but hell if we’re going to give them a season redemption game at the end of the year.
But isn’t that the very emotion-driven pettiness we’ve been ascribing to the folks in College Station?
College football is about money. Oddly, those in charge of navigating its interests seem to have forgotten the qualities that made the sport marketable, and have thus begun to take the sports’ marketability for granted. The intrigue generated by regional and hateful rivalries is much of what appeals to television watchers. Texas football became a national brand by playing in high-profile games. Eliminating our rivals and remaining content to play Iowa St. on our own network is incredibly short-sighted. Sure, we’ll get dump trucks full of money now, but our brand will decline substantially on a longer timeline,
by BrooklynHorn on Aug 23, 2011 6:39 PM CDT up reply actions
But we're not choosing between Iowa State and A&M.
We’re choosing between a big name nonconference game (like ND) or A&M.
But didn't we choose Iowa St. over the Pac-16..
simply because the LHN is a short-term cash cow?
My point is that, when expansive strategy flaunts its seductive poswers, large organizations/companies tend to lose sight of the seminal connection that exists between their products their customers, which is at the very core of their products’ marketability and relevance. There is a world of difference between corporate strategy/branding and the product itself, and further, improving one is not the same as improving the other. Bellmont seems enamored entirely of the former, and is beginning to risk the latter.
by BrooklynHorn on Aug 23, 2011 7:12 PM CDT up reply actions
We chose the Big XII (where are rivalries are/were) over the Mountain Division of the Pac 16.
If we moved to the Pac 16 – we likely would have left A&M in any event.
That Wasn't The Original Plan
The original divison was supposed to be Oklahoma, Oklahoma State, Colorado, Texas, Texas A&M and Texas Tech. Utah was added only when A&M threatened to join the SEC. Even now, the Pac-12 would gladly take A&M over Texas Tech, and you guys would gladly accept exiling Texas Tech to C-USA.
I don't know what you'd heard
But I was under the impression we stayed in the Big 12 to try to keep the A&M rivalry going because the Aggies were looking to jump ship from the plan and head to the SEC.
TEXAS FIGHT
Or perhaps a little of both?
Although I thought there was a quote from Larry Scott about Texas politics as well.
Ending the rivalry game benefits us more than it hurts the aggies
How can they sell their brand to Texas recruits when they won’t even be playing Texas teams? They can sell the SEC brand, sure; but why would any top talent go to A&M rather than LSU, Bama, or UF on that pitch alone? Because college station is such a desirable location? Taking away the rivalry takes away from A&M’s supposed benefit of moving to the SEC. We can sell being the best in the state of Texas, they can sell mediocrity in the Gulf-Coast Conference. It’s in our benefit to end it, even though it hurts. Most teams would jump at the opportunity for a national thanksgiving audience in a game against us. I’d love to see the old history of Nortre Dame / Texas memorialized over Turkey every year. It’s all gravy even if the Aggies leave.
While you have a valid point regarding the negative impact on A&M
I’m skeptical we’ll find some greater Thanksgiving Day rival; we’ll more likely just play Tech, or something.
by BrooklynHorn on Aug 24, 2011 8:40 AM CDT up reply actions
No They Won't
“Most teams would jump at the opportunity for a national thanksgiving audience in a game against us.”
Oh please. Most teams have their traditional rivals that weekend and the conference title game the next week. And Notre Dame won’t be your annual Thanksgiving Day rival, because they play USC every other Thanksgiving. You might be able to find mid-majors willing to play you that weekend, but that is it.
Sorry, but that was just delusional.
I would much rather not schedule them in OOC schedule
And just play them every now and then for telnet cotton bowl. Would be intense new years day
Sally, will you meet me at the airport?
by TxHorns247 on Aug 23, 2011 3:05 PM CDT via mobile reply actions
"People do not know what they think they know"
I know what you mean…or do I?
Be nobody but yourself in a world that desperately wants you to be like everybody else.
This sounds closer to the truth to me
There is exactly a zero percent chance that Notre Dame would join the Big 12. Literally: zero. What is possible is something of an affiliation of independents.
If A&M leaves, then Texas might consider locking up re-occurring TX/BYU and TX/ND games every year.
The Big 12 stays round robin, we get one more game to fill on our schedule and we replace A&M with ND, and contract BYU yearly as well.
Baptists and Catholics and Mormons oh my!
Then we can tap SMU in non-con too…I heard the Methodists are easy.
Be nobody but yourself in a world that desperately wants you to be like everybody else.
Now that is just mean.
SEC- Southern Evangelical Cheaters. Since Jesus didn't specifically mention cheating in football in the New Testament, they are good to go.
by dimecoverage on Aug 23, 2011 3:30 PM CDT up reply actions
The Methodists, I mean. We aren’t easy, just maybe we used to be a tad bit unethical. That upstanding ESPN analyst Craig James didn’t see anything so did it really happen?
SEC- Southern Evangelical Cheaters. Since Jesus didn't specifically mention cheating in football in the New Testament, they are good to go.
by dimecoverage on Aug 23, 2011 3:32 PM CDT up reply actions
It was just a little walking around money.
Be nobody but yourself in a world that desperately wants you to be like everybody else.
Craig James did not kill five hookers while at SMU.
I repeat, for SEO purposes, Craig James did not kill five hookers while at SMU. <—RESPONSIBLE
now (periodically) tweeting @BZatBON
Who's to say who killed all those hookers while Craig James was at SMU.
I’m merely saying that it is irresponsible to say that Craig James killed five hookers while at SMU. It would be responsible to write, everywhere you can on the internet, “The rumor that Craig James killed five hookers while at SMU has never been proven.” That way, when anyone searches the internet for Craig James, they will get the truth about whether he killed five hookers while at SMU.
now (periodically) tweeting @BZatBON
Not In Notre Dame's Interests To Play Texas Every Year
Why you believe otherwise is mysterious.
Interesting to see that you're so tuned into Notre Dame's interests
Why you would believe you are is mysterious.
Are you an expert in Notre Dame's interests?
Whoever said laughter is the best medicine had clearly never tasted Scotch.
PB, do you have a strong source with ND?
I guess what I am asking is whether you are reporting a fact or a conclusion that you’ve reached. I’m not saying your conclusion is wrong, because I’m sure your reasoning is sound and all that, but there could be some unknown factor that overrides some step in your reasoning that might otherwise have been a safe assumption.
Again, not trying to say you’re wrong or anything, but just asking whether you’re reporting or opining.
QB Garrett Gilbert was the Beavis & Butthead episode of the 2010 college football season. Even when things were going well there was always one bad decision that meant he wasn’t going to score.
http://cfn.scout.com/2/1070636.html
by burntorangehorn on Aug 23, 2011 3:12 PM CDT reply actions
You don't need a source
If you know Notre Dame even reasonably well.
That said, I know enough people to say that this is a fact. Ain’t. Happening. Ever.
You ain't hurt...
The NBC-ND contract runs through 2015
That contract will only be surrendered from the cold dead hands of a lot of ND and GE/Comcast stakeholders.
proud to swim home
by learned hand on Aug 23, 2011 3:18 PM CDT up reply actions
But why would that contract have to be surrendered for them to join the Big XII?
They may never join a conference because of their feeling of independence, but I don’t see why their NBC contract would get in the way.
Exactly. The NBC-ND deal would just have to be treated similarly to the Longhorn Network
I don’t believe ND to the Big 12 is going to happen, but I’m interested in exploring the whys and why-nots of it.
QB Garrett Gilbert was the Beavis & Butthead episode of the 2010 college football season. Even when things were going well there was always one bad decision that meant he wasn’t going to score.
http://cfn.scout.com/2/1070636.html
by burntorangehorn on Aug 23, 2011 3:22 PM CDT up reply actions
It would be quite a bit worse for the Big 12 than the LHN
NBC has the rights to all of ND’s home games, and neither are likely to change that arrangement to placate FOX.
Additionally, does a Big 12 North schedule look as good as this:
09/03/11 vs. South Florida Notre Dame, Ind. 3:30 p.m. ET
09/10/11 at Michigan Ann Arbor, Mich. 8:00 p.m. ET
09/17/11 vs. Michigan State Notre Dame, Ind. 3:30 p.m. ET
09/24/11 at Pittsburgh Pittsburgh, Pa. 12:00 p.m. ET
10/01/11 at Purdue West Lafayette, Ind. 8:00 p.m. ET
10/08/11 vs. Air Force Notre Dame, Ind. 3:30 p.m. ET
10/22/11 vs. USC Notre Dame, Ind. 7:30 p.m. ET
10/29/11 vs. Navy Notre Dame, Ind. 3:30 p.m. ET
11/05/11 at Wake Forest Winston-Salem, N.C. TBA
11/12/11 vs. Maryland Landover, Md. 7:30 p.m. ET
11/19/11 vs. Boston College Notre Dame, Ind. 4:00 p.m. ET
11/26/11 at Stanford Stanford, Calif. 5:00 p.m. PT
proud to swim home
by learned hand on Aug 23, 2011 3:34 PM CDT up reply actions
I never said it would be like the LHN.
Couldn’t the Big XII let them keep all of their home games? That would obviously hurt their Big XII payout, but they wouldn’t need much of a payout since they are keeping their NBC deal.
If just BYU and Notre Dame join – there won’t be a Big XII North – just a Big XII with 11 teams. I’m not sure how much worse a Big XII schedule would be than that schedule. Obviously they would likely keep Michigan, Purdue, Navy, and USC. Assuming an 8 game conference slate, replacing USF, MSU, Pitt, Air Force, Wake, Maryland, BC, and Stanford with Mizzou, Kansas, Texas, OU, Tech, OSU, Kansas State, and BYU doesn’t seem like that much of a dropoff (it’s actually a step up in competition).
I don't see ND wanting to trade out their open scheduling
For the likes of Kansas State, Iowa state and Missouri. You are taking them out of their main recruiting area to dump them in the middle of no where. On top of that, they are not giving up Stanford, they recruit too much in California to give up 50% of their visits. Why would ESPN or Fox want NBC to get any kind of foothold in the Big12? As the article say, I just see no reason ND would want to join a conference, let alone the Big12.
by ev on Aug 23, 2011 3:56 PM CDT up reply actions
Yeah I don't see the downside to either party
Scheduling as an independent is a pain in the ass. Adding ND away games would please Fox immensely.
The Big 12 might be the only football conference ND would consider joining because they could negotiate their own TV deal. The Big East is not much if any better than the Big 12 in basketball and way behind in baseball. In terms of basketball, moving to the Big 12 might actually be an advantage since the competition for the confernce title is more reasonable… usually only 2 or 3 teams in the mix ad opposed to the Big East which simply has too many teams.
by Erasmus Funderburke on Aug 23, 2011 9:23 PM CDT up reply actions
Scheduling isn't a problem for ND
Teams are lined up to play them, and any time of the season too. If you don’t see a downside for ND, then you are not looking hard enough. To ND tradition is everything, and being independent is tradition to them. They won’t give it up for anything unless it’s a requirment for the postseason. Their AD said just that last year.
Are you opining or reporting?
QB Garrett Gilbert was the Beavis & Butthead episode of the 2010 college football season. Even when things were going well there was always one bad decision that meant he wasn’t going to score.
http://cfn.scout.com/2/1070636.html
by burntorangehorn on Aug 23, 2011 3:21 PM CDT up reply actions 1 recs
I grew up in South Bend
Half my family and a good chunk of my friends are Domers. And PB is absolutely correct. There were two opportunities within my lifetime for the Irish to join the Big 10, which is the conference that most aligns with them geographically, culturally, and scholastically. That last point cannot be emphasized enough — Notre Dame considers itself an Ivy League school that happens to be Catholic and located in Indiana.
Anyone who thinks that institution would align itself with Kansas State, to pick just one example, has been smoking too many Big Cigars.
Simplicity is always the secret, to a profound truth, to doing things, to writing, to painting. Life is profound in its simplicity. - Charles Bukowski
by windycityhorn on Aug 23, 2011 7:52 PM CDT up reply actions
Just going to put this...
And if the sonofabitches are gone, then it is goodbye. Good enough. nt-whills
I think you're probably right, BUT...
…I think the Big 12 would only happen if ND were allowed to join on their own terms—media contract in place. If all terms were equal, sure, ND would probably choose the Big Ten first, and possibly one of several other conferences before the Big 12. The difference is that the Big Ten, Pac-X, etc. likely would not let ND join while keeping the NBC deal largely intact. The Big 12 probably would.
QB Garrett Gilbert was the Beavis & Butthead episode of the 2010 college football season. Even when things were going well there was always one bad decision that meant he wasn’t going to score.
http://cfn.scout.com/2/1070636.html
by burntorangehorn on Aug 23, 2011 3:29 PM CDT up reply actions
You have to ask yourself why would ND join anyway?
ND has proven they don’t need a conference, there is no incentive for them to up and join one now.
And if the sonofabitches are gone, then it is goodbye. Good enough. nt-whills
by run Bevo run on Aug 23, 2011 3:37 PM CDT up reply actions
If superconferences form, the BCS contracts will all be adjusted/thrown out.
ND needs conferences if they’re worried about their status in such negotiations. It’s unknown how Notre Dame will be treated as an independent in a world with 16+ team superconferences.
We don't have super conferences now
Also, the Big xii wont be one. We’re debating this in a current state no?
And if the sonofabitches are gone, then it is goodbye. Good enough. nt-whills
by run Bevo run on Aug 23, 2011 5:30 PM CDT up reply actions
I think it's ambitious to say super conference are going to happen in 1 year.
I guess it’s plausible to say if Agrocult leaves, B1G adds 4, PAC adds 4, SEC adds 3 + little brother, not sure how this much money and history assimilates in a year.
And if the sonofabitches are gone, then it is goodbye. Good enough. nt-whills
by run Bevo run on Aug 23, 2011 5:34 PM CDT up reply actions
Isn't ND's tv contract up in 2015?
And if the sonofabitches are gone, then it is goodbye. Good enough. nt-whills
by run Bevo run on Aug 23, 2011 5:38 PM CDT up reply actions
If they are staying independent, they will.
If they join a conference, I doubt they’ll get the opportunity.
And if the sonofabitches are gone, then it is goodbye. Good enough. nt-whills
by run Bevo run on Aug 23, 2011 5:42 PM CDT up reply actions
Why would they want the Big xii?
I don’t see why they would want to.
And if the sonofabitches are gone, then it is goodbye. Good enough. nt-whills
by run Bevo run on Aug 23, 2011 6:06 PM CDT up reply actions
So they can keep their exclusive contract with NBC and still have access to the BCS/its replacement.
As it stands now, they have that with independence
So, still no incentive to change.
And if the sonofabitches are gone, then it is goodbye. Good enough. nt-whills
by run Bevo run on Aug 23, 2011 7:12 PM CDT up reply actions
Right - it's just a question of whether they can keep it in the future.
We’re not talking about whether Notre Dame is in the conference now – the question is whether they will join in the future.
Unequivically, no
Not a chance.
And if the sonofabitches are gone, then it is goodbye. Good enough. nt-whills
by run Bevo run on Aug 23, 2011 7:23 PM CDT up reply actions
They keep saying no to everyone
You think they’re going to change their mind to go to a conference that is seen by many to be crumbling quickly into breaking apart?
TEXAS FIGHT
I think they're going to change their mind when they think they'll lose their BCS tie-in.
At that point, they might have the option to join the Big Ten as an equal member or join the Big XII as a pseudo-member with special privileges and many of the benefits that they currently get from being indepenendent.
I have nothing to support this claim
I don’t think ND ever loses it’s BCS status even if super conferences are formed. You have a top 5 most successful program ever and I don’t think the BCS would alienate a Notre Dame.
And if the sonofabitches are gone, then it is goodbye. Good enough. nt-whills
by run Bevo run on Aug 24, 2011 12:17 PM CDT up reply actions
Additional revenue of some sort, I guess?
I would guess that some additional revenue for games that don’t fall under their NBC contract might work.
Like I said, I don’t think it’s likely that the ND report is accurate, as it could just be speculation or an intentional smoke signal, but I’m sure there’s a way ND could squeeze some extra money and security out of joining a BCS-AQ conference.
QB Garrett Gilbert was the Beavis & Butthead episode of the 2010 college football season. Even when things were going well there was always one bad decision that meant he wasn’t going to score.
http://cfn.scout.com/2/1070636.html
by burntorangehorn on Aug 23, 2011 3:50 PM CDT up reply actions
ND is part of a conference, the BE
While it sucks for football, it’s great for everything else. There is no additional revenue for the football program to pick up outside of their home games. Unless you are talking a CCG.
by ev on Aug 23, 2011 3:59 PM CDT up reply actions
"There is no additional revenue for the football program to pick up outside of their home games."
I don’t know about the Pac 12, but Big XII teams don’t just make money on their home games, they make money on their away conference games too.
I didn't know that, not sure if it's the case in the pac12
However it wouldn’t matter to ND. All their away games are non-conference so they already get paid for them.
by ev on Aug 23, 2011 4:19 PM CDT up reply actions
You think ND gets paid for all of their non-conference away games?
Why the Pac 12 allow ND to keep the money when Stanford or USC plays at ND and still pay out some of the money to ND when they play in California?
Yes, just like everyone else
ND pays USC and Stanford when those schools visit. That’s standard for any OOC game, you keep the gate/TV and pay an agreed to fee.
by ev on Aug 23, 2011 4:57 PM CDT up reply actions
I think most schools only do that if it's not a home/home agreement.
So called buy-out games where you pay the other school to play at your home stadium and not play at their home stadium. I don’t think you generally share your TV money for each game.
No, the fee is standard
it pays for travel expenses. Yes it’s pretty much a wash as you are just exchanging checks, but the schools like it for accounting purposes. Everyone does it and it’s not tied to the buyout clause. No you are not sharing TV money, it’s just a fee. Often in the $250-350K range.
by ev on Aug 23, 2011 5:05 PM CDT up reply actions
Why would an OCC opponent
want to give ND a bonus when they don’t have too? We are still talking about OOC away games and not Big12 ones right?
by ev on Aug 23, 2011 5:36 PM CDT up reply actions
An OOC opponenent wouldn't.
But a Big XII opponent could. I was under the impression that we were discussing why Notre Dame might consider joining the Big XII in some form.
Ah yes thanks
I guess the question is would say Kansas st willingly give up additional TV money for the privilege of having ND in the conference.
by ev on Aug 23, 2011 5:42 PM CDT up reply actions
But they wouldn't be giving away TV money, except in comparison to having ND in the conference completely (which will never happen).
They will likely be getting MORE TV money from ND’s conference away games than they would for all of conference games for UH/UNLV/whoever else the Big XII could get.
Big XII teams don’t just make money on their home games, they make money on their away conference games too.
Only because of revenue distribution within 1st & 2nd tier TV rights. Assuming ND were to join the Big 12, NBC would still hold the rights to all ND home games. ND would have to agree to distribute revenue from their NBC contract back to the Big 12 in order for the away team to make any money on ND home games.
Of course, that’s completely disregarding the impact on the Big 12’s media contracts if ND were to join. There’s undoubtedly a clause in the FOX/ESPN contracts that would require they have rights to home games for teams added to the conference.
There's also a clause in the contract that makes allows Fox to get out if fewer than 10 of the original teams remail.
Obviously this would have to be worked out with all of the TV partners. The question is whether the TV networks would be willing to pay more for Notre Dame’s away games or all of any other teams games. The calculation wouldn’t be quite so straight forward because they wouldn’t have to pay as much more because Notre Dame wouldn’t be getting a full share of the conference TV money.
My proposal would be to allow ND to keep all their home game NBC money – but give them a piece of their away game money as well (as an incentive). I think Notre Dame’s away games (as well as their other sports) would be a big enough money maker for the conference to make them more valuable than any other school anyway.
Right but there's no requirement for FOX/ESPN to renegotiate the contract
There’s usually only a “good faith” clause (and I am making assumptions here – don’t know any of the contract terms in certainty). I would absolutely agree that the contract values would be increased if access to ND home games were granted but there’s almost certainly no way ND/NBC want that. More than likely, in your scenario, the current Big 12 members are taking a financial loss with the addition of ND.
If you think the uproar of unequal revenue distribution is an issue now, just wait until ND gets to keep their NBC contract and get a piece of the Big 12 pie. Of course, that wouldn’t be so bad as it would take the focus off of UT for a while.
But the contracts will have to be renegotiated anyway if A&M leaves.
It has been reported that the contracts say that the Big XII has to keep 10 of the original teams for the contracts or the media companies can walk. If A&M leaves, we’re already at the mercy of the media companies. We’re not comparing adding Notre Dame to nothing, we’re comparing adding them to adding some other school. Lets say we would have to pay them 1/4 of a share of the revenue (and let them keep their NBC home game money). Would FOX/ABC pay four times more for another schools entire conference slate or Notre Dame’s away conference slate? I don’t think they would.
As to whether the other schools would complain, I’m sure their fans would. But it only matters if any of the schools want to leave. OU would still be making more than most – would they balk at having the third highest revenues instead of the second highest? Would Mizzou decide they’d had enough and leave for the Big Ten (would they get an offer)? Would the entire North decide it makes more sense to make less money in the Big East because at least then they could have similar revenue to their conference mates?
You think the Big12 would allow
the conference to drop below 10 members knowing it triggers the Fox contract to be cancelled? Wouldn’t Beebe add a team or two before TAMU leaves?
by ev on Aug 23, 2011 5:01 PM CDT up reply actions
I believe the contract says that the TV networks have to agree to any additions.
The 10 number was for original members.
The whole point is to find the 10th member that makes the most money for the conference.
But the contracts will have to be renegotiated anyway if A&M leaves.
I don’t think that’s actually the case
or the media companies can walkTo my understanding, this clause is added so that FOX/ESPN aren’t tied into paying the original contract value if the membership drops. Not that they’d be forced into doing so.
Would FOX/ABC pay four times more for another schools entire conference slate or Notre Dame’s away conference slate?I would argue that FOX/ESPN would see the inability to broadcast ND home games as a non-starter to renegotiating the contracts.
Right - that's why everything is already up in the air.
The TV networks have all the power because they can get out of the deals if A&M leaves, no matter what we do.
Fox and ESPN don't have this option
“Would FOX/ABC pay four times more for another schools entire conference slate or Notre Dame’s away conference slate?” – the away game TV rights belong to the opponent.
by ev on Aug 23, 2011 5:40 PM CDT up reply actions
All conference TV rights belong to the conference (if the TV partners want them).
That’s why I said conference slate – not OOC games.
Ah thanks again
These threads get confusing after awhile.
by ev on Aug 23, 2011 5:43 PM CDT up reply actions
Notice my comment
I didn’t say they wouldn’t join a super conference/BCS-AQ, I said it wouldn’t be the Big xii.
And if the sonofabitches are gone, then it is goodbye. Good enough. nt-whills
by run Bevo run on Aug 23, 2011 5:31 PM CDT up reply actions
I’ve already addressed this
And if the sonofabitches are gone, then it is goodbye. Good enough. nt-whills
by run Bevo run on Aug 23, 2011 5:36 PM CDT up reply actions
I guess I don’t understand how you comment addresses why they would join another conference and give up their independent TV contract with NBC when they don’t have to.
A problem you're having is your trying to combine two different conversations
ND isn’t coming to the Big xii. I’m agreeing with your point.
And if the sonofabitches are gone, then it is goodbye. Good enough. nt-whills
by run Bevo run on Aug 23, 2011 5:40 PM CDT up reply actions
I'm just arguing that Notre Dame might join a conference if they thought they would get left out of the BCS (or whatever replaces it).
And IF they do have to join a conference, it would not be crazy to join the Big XII if the Big XII is willing to make a lot of concessions that will allow it to keep a lot of its current independence (such as the NBC deal).
I totally disagree
Like I said in the other thread, if ND had to join a conference, it wouldn’t be ours.
And if the sonofabitches are gone, then it is goodbye. Good enough. nt-whills
by run Bevo run on Aug 23, 2011 6:08 PM CDT up reply actions
Perhaps - I just don't think they've be as willing to give up their NBC deal / 3rd tier rights that easily.
Perhaps the Big Ten is more flexible than I thought though.
My point is that ND would sooner join the Big 12 than the Big Ten
Because the Big Ten wouldn’t allow them to keep a team-specific TV deal.
QB Garrett Gilbert was the Beavis & Butthead episode of the 2010 college football season. Even when things were going well there was always one bad decision that meant he wasn’t going to score.
http://cfn.scout.com/2/1070636.html
by burntorangehorn on Aug 23, 2011 6:29 PM CDT up reply actions
I dont know
What I know from ND, I wouldn’t be surprised if they took the B1G and their network with the prestige of the schools over us yokels in the Big xii.
And if the sonofabitches are gone, then it is goodbye. Good enough. nt-whills
by run Bevo run on Aug 23, 2011 7:15 PM CDT up reply actions
I think we're talking about two different things here
Let’s say ND finds it necessary to accept one of these three options:
1. Join the Big Ten for all sports, and either give up the NBC deal or retain it and distribute the money equally among all conference members. Receive a share equal to what each other school in the conference receives.
2. Join the Big 12 for all sports, retain the NBC deal for home games and all revenues therefrom, add money for conference branding, away games, and non-football sports.
3. Join the Big 12 for football only, retain the NBC deal for home games and all revenues therefrom, add money for conference branding and away games.
Which of those three would ND take? I think #1 would be the least likely. This builds in the assumptions that the Big 12 would accept ND with the NBC deal intact, and that the Big Ten would not.
QB Garrett Gilbert was the Beavis & Butthead episode of the 2010 college football season. Even when things were going well there was always one bad decision that meant he wasn’t going to score.
http://cfn.scout.com/2/1070636.html
by burntorangehorn on Aug 24, 2011 8:54 AM CDT up reply actions
Or you could look at it this way
1. Join the Big10, be associated with an elite academic conference, centered around your campus (and main recruiting area) and continue to play most of your traditional foes.
2. Join the Big12, lose all the above but keep NBC (maybe).
The Big10 and ND have been doing this Kabuki dance for decades upon decades. Some times ND wants in and the Big10 doesn’t, others the Big10 wants them but ND doesn’t. Sooner or later both will line up at the same time and both parties know it.
When did ND want in and the Big Ten didn't want them?
I certainly haven’t heard about that.
by Texas Wahoo on Aug 24, 2011 10:55 AM CDT up reply actions
I second this question
I don’t think the Big Ten has ever rebuffed any interest on ND’s part.
QB Garrett Gilbert was the Beavis & Butthead episode of the 2010 college football season. Even when things were going well there was always one bad decision that meant he wasn’t going to score.
http://cfn.scout.com/2/1070636.html
by burntorangehorn on Aug 24, 2011 11:03 AM CDT up reply actions
You have to go way back
ND wanted in the Big10 back in the 20’s, back right before the Big10 blackballed the Irish. It’s was the genesis of their independence and barnstorming ways. I know that seems like a long time ago, but neither side has forgotten it. They may have put those feelings aside, but they haven’t been forgotten or forgiven. Bring up the name Yost to a Domer and he can list the issues as if they were yesterday. Tradition is everything at ND.
If ND is still so mad at the Big Ten, that's just another reason to consider the semi-independent status in the Big XII.
by Texas Wahoo on Aug 24, 2011 12:04 PM CDT up reply actions
Truth be told
The Big10 claims ND wanted to join back in the 90s too, but the Big10 didn’t want them. Of course ND fans say that wasn’t really the case. I tend to believe the Big10 on this one as the Irish are a bit fuzzy on the details. Usually a sign of the other side being correct.
by ev on Aug 24, 2011 1:33 PM CDT up reply actions
Do you have a link of the details from the Big Ten side?
I would be interested to read about the specifics.
Fuzzy memories
The Big Ten made a minor push in 1993 to have Notre Dame join at the same time as Penn State, and had a much more public attempt in 1998. The Irish thought about the 1998 invitation more than any other attempt since major realignment started in the late 80s. I believe the faculty overwhelmingly voted in favor of such a move because of the CIC benefits (although any true NDNation member would downplay those results significantly), but the athletic department ultimately rejected it for the same reasons PB mentioned when he dismissed the ND/Big XII rumors. For better or worse, they cling to their traditions in a way no other fanbase can understand.
I believe #1 is most likely.
Notre Dame is not hurting for money, I think distributing it equally to align itself with Michigan, etc is more likely than keeping the same revenue they have now and dealing with ISU, etc.
And if the sonofabitches are gone, then it is goodbye. Good enough. nt-whills
by run Bevo run on Aug 24, 2011 12:20 PM CDT up reply actions
I think it would be less about the money and more about the NBC contract.
by Texas Wahoo on Aug 24, 2011 12:28 PM CDT up reply actions
When you say NBC contract, are you not generalizing it as $$$$
And if the sonofabitches are gone, then it is goodbye. Good enough. nt-whills
by run Bevo run on Aug 24, 2011 12:46 PM CDT up reply actions
Forgot to add "?"
And if the sonofabitches are gone, then it is goodbye. Good enough. nt-whills
by run Bevo run on Aug 24, 2011 12:46 PM CDT up reply actions
Whey I say NBC contract, I generally mean the exclusivity and notoriety of it.
I think it is more valuable to Notre Dame to be THE NBC team. I’ve heard their NBC deal actually pays them less than they would make in a major conference. I think they care more about being the only college football team on NBC. That’s why I expect them to try to keep that going even if they have to join a conference.
by Texas Wahoo on Aug 24, 2011 12:54 PM CDT up reply actions
When ND cut their deal
it was for the going rate, somewhere over $15M per year. That is a low rate today, but they will again get top dollar in 2015. Keep in mind this is only the football portion, they get paid from the BE for everything else. The ND athletic department dumps millions into the general fund every year. Maybe not to the Texas level, but then no one is at that level.
by ev on Aug 24, 2011 1:37 PM CDT up reply actions
I don't dispute that they make a lot of money.
I just stated that I thought that was the least important part of the NBC deal (as they’re likely to make a lot of money regardless).
There's no guarantee that the Big 12 would allow them to keep their current TV deal either
Big 12 currently allows the teams rights to 3rd tier content. The conference still holds the rights to 1st and 2nd tier content. ND’s NBC contract is the rough equivalent of the Big 12’s 1st through 3rd tier content. There’s no easy way to slip it in.
If this were all happening after 2015 when the NBC contract expires it could work out provided ND launched an equivalent LHN. But I would still think ND’s preference would be Independence first and then the Big Ten, team-specific network or not.
But that is the only reason they would pick the Big XII over the Big Ten.
We would allow them to keep their NBC deals because we have to in order to get them at all.
by Texas Wahoo on Aug 23, 2011 10:11 PM CDT up reply actions
Texas + OU + ND + (8 * crap) = superconference
Hard to think of three bigger programs out there. OSU and Michigan, USC in the mix but would not give ND the same latitude. ND would not want to get in bed with the FLA/Alabama/UGA mix.
by Erasmus Funderburke on Aug 23, 2011 9:31 PM CDT up reply actions
If you think ND gets in bed with ISU, BU and TTU...
And if the sonofabitches are gone, then it is goodbye. Good enough. nt-whills
by run Bevo run on Aug 23, 2011 10:31 PM CDT up reply actions
My Top !0 pet names for a ND vs UT football series after Notre Dame joins the conference...
10) Saints vs. Sinners
9) Catholics vs. Conjugals
8) The God Squad vs. God’s Chosen School (aka. God’s Coin Flip)
7) Rudy vs. Rooster
6) Bevo Likes Lent
5) The Brewsades
4) The Big 12th Station of the Cross
3) Lucky Charms vs. Black Gold
2) I hate you Joe Montana
1) The Notre Lame Game
Be nobody but yourself in a world that desperately wants you to be like everybody else.
There has to be a way to sneak a priest/pedophilia joke in there somewhere
QB Garrett Gilbert was the Beavis & Butthead episode of the 2010 college football season. Even when things were going well there was always one bad decision that meant he wasn’t going to score.
http://cfn.scout.com/2/1070636.html
by burntorangehorn on Aug 23, 2011 3:53 PM CDT up reply actions
Eunuchs vs. Steers
Sorry, short notice.
Be nobody but yourself in a world that desperately wants you to be like everybody else.
Quality submissions 54b
I vote Brewsades
I’ll add
- Godzillatron vs TD Jesus
- Cowboys vs Alterboys
Nice
I did have Touchdown Jesus vs Orange Jesus as an alternate, but unless Mack gets this thing turned around, they may start calling him Orange Judas.
Be nobody but yourself in a world that desperately wants you to be like everybody else.
Dibs. I think that is my new bi-polar screen name.
Burnt Orange Nation
Follow Along on Twitter @TXStampede
This was off the wall enough
That I considered the following. Belmont likes its secrecy, and may be getting tired of seeing insider information from “The Big Cigar” on BC and Recruitocosm. It wouldn’t be the first organization to tell different stories to different folks and then sit back to see which version got leaked.
I have no idea if this could be right, but just thought I would toss it out there.
.
by Longhorn in Canada on Aug 23, 2011 3:45 PM CDT reply actions
Chip Brown's Insights
Ok BONers, Chip Brown is coming to Denver Friday eve for a season preview and conference realignment discussion with the UT alumni group (if you’re in town drop by Falling Rock Tap House – UT alumni-owned – in LoDo at 6:30p). Aside from the obvious any suggestions on questions?
by RMHorn on Aug 23, 2011 4:29 PM CDT via mobile reply actions
Please ask Chip how long he's been using Soul Glow and does he get extra street cred for his Jheri curl?
Be nobody but yourself in a world that desperately wants you to be like everybody else.
by 54b on Aug 23, 2011 4:55 PM CDT up reply actions 1 recs
1980's Eddie Murphy
References are always great!
by RMHorn on Aug 23, 2011 5:50 PM CDT via mobile up reply actions
for the most part people do not know what they think they know
I am not saying that you are wrong but for someone to acknowledge that “for the most part people do not know what they think they know” it seems a little irresponsible to make blanket statements that suggest that you know everything
“There is exactly a zero percent chance that Notre Dame would join the Big 12”
“once they run away, we won’t continue playing them”
by iknoweverything on Aug 23, 2011 5:53 PM CDT reply actions
Would the ND alumni want to join a conference?
My sense is that they would not (from the few that I know). If ND joined a conference for football, we might have human sacrifice, dogs and cats living together, mass hysteria, that sort of stuff.
Notre Dame seems to like their independence. They have been at it for a long time, and they really make it work. Could they make more money if they joined a conference for football? Well, they might, or they might not, but at best they could make a few million dollars extra if they drove a really hard bargain. I suspect giving up that independence would be worth far more than a few million dollars.
I am on Twitter @jeffchaley
The AD would be tarred and feathered
What they would do to him with the rail is open to debate.
by ev on Aug 23, 2011 8:17 PM CDT up reply actions
"people do not know what they think they know"
Couldn’t that argument be made for your stance that ND would never join the Big 12 as well?
Yes and no
It definitely applies to me (I don’t claim to know everything that’s going on). At the same time, I’m as certain as I could be that Notre Dame would never join the Big 12.
You ain't hurt...
I suspect the only way a ND move would be probible is if something were to happen to their Big East
affiliation and thus they felt organizing sporting events for non-revenue teams would cause them to hemorrhage money.
Notre Dame Would Join The ACC Before They Join The Big 12
Sorry guys. They aren’t coming.
If we're play God of Alignment
I’d cover as many big markets and big recruiting areas as possible. Something like:
The National Conference
West: USC, UCLA, Stan, Cal, OU, Tex, A&M, BYU
East: ND, BC, Rutgers, Mary, Ga Tech, FSU, Mia, MO
Some of the teams would have to beef up their football programs, but in a conference like this it shouldn’t take long.
The three major recruiting areas (Cal, Tex, Fla) are well covered.
Almost all of the major TV markets are covered. USC would have to draw in the Phoenix market. ND would have to draw in Chicago. BYU, OU, Tex could draw in Denver.
Get some pens and paper and start signing on those dotted lines.
"Some people are born on third base and go through life thinking they hit a triple." Barry Switzer (meant, I believe, to describe UT and UT fans)
It wouldn't be Kelly's choice
Regardless, the ND AD said pretty much the same thing last year. They don’t plan on joining, they don’t want to join, but if forced by circumstances they understand they might have to.
by ev on Aug 24, 2011 1:39 PM CDT up reply actions
Which is what we're talking about here.
Very few think ND would join any conference if they can avoid it. We’re discussing it based on the theory that they might have to eventually (a point they’ve stated).
True,
I just think when that time comes, they will pick their natural partner which is the Big10. Those two just fit together so well. Whether it’s geography, academics or cultural. I don’t think the Big12 offers anything ND would be willing to give all that up for. I understand the keeping NBC theory, just don’t think the Domers will consider that a fair trade.
by ev on Aug 24, 2011 3:36 PM CDT up reply actions
So Peter,
are you sure it’s 0 percent or more like 1 in a million?
Dear Mr. Bean,
I assume you have been anointed the Realignment Chosen One. If “Conference realignment is a deeply complex and dynamic situation…” you must have become privy to information allowing you to digest such complexities and dynamics us mortals could only dream of obtaining. The rope is in our hands and you are content in letting us hang ourselves. I’ll assume your regurgitated “Hangin’ Judge” reference was once directed at you and your legal comrades by a Horn Law Prof. during your 1L Crim. Law class. I’ll further assume this “hanging” reference means you, oh anointed one, have divine insight as to what is in the best interest of Texas A&M University as they sort through this “deeply complex and dynamic situation”. We may hold a rope in our hands, but let me assure you, it’s not going around our neck, it’s headed straight towards Bevo’s Rocky Mountain Oysters where it will be tied and cinched on Thanksgiving of this year. If it is the last time we meet on the gridiron on a regular basis, I’m content with this parting gift.
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