The Wisdom of Starting Garrett Gilbert to Open 2011
by Peter Bean on Aug 30, 2011 2:03 AM CDT
in Texas Longhorns Football
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As you know by now, the first depth chart for the Texas Longhorns 2011 football team is out and Garrett Gilbert is the starting quarterback heading into the season opener versus Rice. My esteemed colleague Big Roy framed it as a starting gig Gilbert not so much won, but retained on the basis of experience:
When asked why Gilbert won the job, Brown cited his experience and leadership abilities, then concluded simply that "he's older." Sounds like after months of competition, the only thing that separated Gilbert from the rest was game reps.
Not consistently making better decisions or having a better arm. Not because the team rallied around him. After charting every situation, every throw, after all the scrutiny, Gilbert won the job because he's simply older.
It's a fair take, considering Gilbert's lackluster performance in the spring game and inability to seize the lead role immediately in fall camp. Even so, the decision to install Gilbert as QB1 heading into the season seems to me the right one.
To begin with, this is not a Zac Lee 2010 situation, in which the team appears just a quarterback away from BCS Bowl contention. Perhaps that's true with Texas in 2011, but it seems more likely to be a building year towards runs in 2012 and '13. As such, the penalty for missing on the quarterback decision isn't as severe as it would be in a season in which the position may be the only missing piece. Even if Gilbert is disastrous out of the gates and Texas drops two or more of its first three against Rice, BYU, and UCLA, the losses aren't likely to be the difference between Texas winning a conference championship and/or making a BCS Bowl.
Instead, a poor start by Gilbert mostly means a definitive pivot to David Ash and Case McCoy, the rest of the season an ongoing competition between the two to emerge as the leader of teams that will be positioned to compete for titles. Moreover, there is some benefit in making such a pivot after a Gilbert stumble, as opposed to right from the get-go, when the pressures of a blank slate, full season ahead, and eager fan expectations would put UT's younger signal callers under enormous pressure. Whereas early-season struggles by Gilbert would simply close a disappointing chapter, with Ash or McCoy such struggles could derail a promising future.
Speaking of which, the decision to start Gilbert also seems wise considering the severe handicap that he has had to overcome following the pitiful job Texas's coaches did with last year's offense. He may well never recover from that, but it's not unreasonable to believe that he will improve under better direction, approach, and leadership. Whether that improvement is modest, or unlocks a huge step forward, will determine whether Gilbert has a chance to lead Texas to a special season, this year or -- more likely -- next. It seems to me justifiable that the coaching staff is interested in finding out.
Related to the above, most of the downside here is with Gilbert himself, who will lose his entire third year of eligibility if he struggles through two or three games and is replaced. If he knew that's how this season going to go, Gilbert probably would prefer not to start and to sit out a redshirt season before transferring elsewhere with two years of remaining eligibility. As explained, I don't see nearly as much downside for Texas in something of a building season; at the end of the day, it matters much more whether this season launches the team towards big-time success in the next two years than whether the 'Horns go 7-6 as opposed to 9-4.
Ultimately, that's what makes me think starting Gilbert is the right decision. If by starting Gilbert the coaches were clearly risking a shot at an 11-1 kind of season, the decision would be a lot more controversial -- indeed, I would vehemently oppose it. As it is, there are too many questions about Ash and McCoy that it doesn't seem particularly likely either is ready to lead UT to a special season right away. And in any event, starting Gilbert does not preclude the coaches from working in Ash and/or McCoy this season as they see fit, even if Gilbert thrives.
And if all that's right, then starting Gilbert isn't just justifiable -- it's probably wise. Gilbert gets a chance to show that in an improved system he's capable of shining, which if he does is hardly anything about which to lament. And if not? Well, either he bombs out early and is replaced early, or he plods along not-well-enough, and the Texas staff has the information they need to begin turning towards the next chapter, and the new lead gets to begin the takeover without the undue pressure of the season's expectations on his shoulders.
Gilbert may not have won the job emphatically, but he has played well enough this fall -- especially in the last three weeks -- that the decision to open the 2011 season with him as the starter is the right one.
I'll be rooting for Texas and Gilbert to start fast and turn out an outstanding season, start-to-finish. And if Gilbert struggles, or simply doesn't demonstrate the ability to be better than average, then I'll be excited to see what the new kids can do. And I'll feel better about where they're starting from.
5 days to kick off... Hook 'em
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5 days......
5 days till we can put 2010 behind us……..5 days until we can start trying to get some payback
formerly "Horns102591"
I've been put 2010 in the rear view mirror
But I hope the team has it engraved in the back of their mind so they never forget that although “We’re Texas”, weaker teams can still kick our tail.
It Ain't Easy, But It's Worth It.
Is that why Mack changed the team motto from "We're Texas" to "Remember the Alamo?"
@longhorn54b
by 54b on Aug 30, 2011 9:17 AM CDT up reply actions 1 recs
And all of that was GG?
Not Barrett Mathews volleyball setting a for sure TD pass against Baylor that would have put us up 17-0 (i think)?
Or the offensive live not blocking for him?
Receiver dropping passes?
Farking Greg Davis?
Gilbert had plenty of faults, and made plenty of mistakes. No question. But to suggest that the blame lies all with GG is asinine and ignorant.
It certainly was not all his fault
He had no running game, a terrible O-line, and poor play by his receivers.
I am never one to put all the blame on the QB, but he certainly deserves his share. He made some very poor throws and his body language was abysmal. Looking only at the things he COULD control, Gilbert still does not deserve a pass for last season.
I hope I am wrong but I don’t have high hopes for the fist part of the season, and the guy under center is a significant reason why. I really, really, really hope I’m wrong.
Simplicity is always the secret, to a profound truth, to doing things, to writing, to painting. Life is profound in its simplicity. - Charles Bukowski
by windycityhorn on Aug 30, 2011 2:57 PM CDT up reply actions
Dude, you forgot all about the worst punt return team that any of us ...
… had seen in decades. 5-7 was certainly a TEAM effort by all, not just Gilbert.
We had a punt return team?
If a man is alone in the woods and he speaks, if no one hears him,,is he still wrong?
Yeah, it was debatable.
Seems like I remember that they put an all-American cornerback back there but I don’t really remember him ever actually running with the football. I just remember him crawling around trying to recover fumbles. Poor AW. Going into the season, I believe I said, in one of our great BON discussions, that the biggest thing we were going to miss was Jordan Shipley as a punt returner. That stud had such great hands. I really didn’t think it would be that prophetic. Punt returns were a train wreck last year and, I believe, it really cost ’em at least 2 wins.
Williams and Brown both looked terrible back there
I still can’t believe that the staff thought Hales or Monroe would’ve been as bad as the corners. Even if they had been ineffective, that would’ve been better than having a negative effect, which is exactly what the corners had.
But here’s the deal: I think the PR effort was similar to the QB effort. The guys probably did things right in practice, and knew what they had to do, but the level of organizational failure on the team was such that the gameday translation was wretched.
QB Garrett Gilbert was the Beavis & Butthead episode of the 2010 college football season. Even when things were going well there was always one bad decision that meant he wasn’t going to score.
http://cfn.scout.com/2/1070636.html
by burntorangehorn on Aug 30, 2011 5:40 PM CDT up reply actions
The translation WAS wretched. You're right.
When the coaches started having the punt returners just fair catch everything, even if the gunners nowhere near ’em, I had absolutely no problem with it. I was just happy that they actually started catching the football. It was that bad. I had never before seen such bad punt returning on a college or pro football team. Miserable.
Oh, yeah, it was driving him crazy!
Hopefully, he & the new Ship-show will run a few back this year.
they played in cincy
Quan and Ship
by sahyouni on Aug 31, 2011 8:46 AM CDT via iPhone app up reply actions
This is my reasoning, as well.
My first reaction to the depth-chart was slightly negative, however I then realized Ive been conditioned as a Texas fan to be forever stuck in Championship mode, a mindset characterized by an over-scrutiny of every decision the coaches make, knowing that a single misstep can derail our chances.
But as foreign as it may seem to most of us, there’s really no reason for such scrutiny at the outset of this particular campaign. For once Texas has the luxury of beginning a relatively experimental season without any pressure, which may turn out to pretty useful.
I pretty much agree with all your reasoning.
I think Gilbert can do enough to win for us. He can be a “game-manager”. That’s really all he needs to do. That’s really what Colt was at one point, too. And that’s what he is in Cleveland. You can tell his schtick is just being ultra-careful in his decision-making. He’s not buzzing the ball by DB’s at 90 mph into coverage, juking his way down the field, and winning games single-handedly. He’s making safe throws within the offense, and just managing the game.
Admittedly, it takes consistency to have success playing like this, but I think Garrett also has an arm just as strong as Colt’s, if not stronger. (Dude is 6-4 after all.) I expect a lot more down-the-field throws this season. Jaxon is a good jump ball receiver. And the fact that John Harris has become a starter tells me there’s something special about the guy.
I expect Harsin to make it easy on Gilbert. I just can’t see Bryan Harsin not manufacturing 2-3 touchdowns a game one way or another on his own. If our defense can hold up, we’ll win the close games this season.
"Hey, don't y'all think that's beautiful right there? That crystal is SO beautiful. And it's coming home to Texas." - Vince Young
This season is on the coaches
It is obvious we don’t have the players so I, like you, want to see the coaches manufactuer some wins. The crazy part is we know nothing because of the black out. I did see some misdirection during the orange/white game but I also watched the first pass Gilbert threw, go straight to a safety.
I never thought I would see the day when UT was capable of losing to any team on the schedule. I still don’t know what happened but Mack better fix it because there is no patience for losing.
Agree the season is on the coaches
Disagree that we don’t have the players. Mack has pulled in ace recruiting classes, year after year. In 2010 he made the coaches changes that needed to be made. It’s exciting to see what the new coaching staff will make of all this talent.
With Wood transferring,
we’re left with two three-star recruits behind Garrett. That’s not exactly lighting the world on fire at the position. Now, whether they play better than three-star recruits is another thing entirely. I suspect Ash can. Not sure about Case. They both at least beat out Wood.
"Hey, don't y'all think that's beautiful right there? That crystal is SO beautiful. And it's coming home to Texas." - Vince Young
Actually, that pass was a pretty decent ball.
Quandre Diggs is just an exceptional athlete. He’s not a safety, though. That pass would have been a touchdown against many other teams.
They were intentionally vanilla in the Orange and White game. I’m sure their game-plans in the scrimmages have been much more complex. We’ll likely see them be somewhat vanilla in the Rice game, too. They don’t want to give anything away.
"Hey, don't y'all think that's beautiful right there? That crystal is SO beautiful. And it's coming home to Texas." - Vince Young
Seems like I remember Colt telegraphing an interception in the scrimmage ...
… right before his 2008 monster year or prior to the 2009 season. Let’s all keep it in perspective.
I don't think vanilla is on the menu with this offense.
Sorta like the wishbone or the run’n’shoot, you either are running it or the game is over. Plus, this offense also has considerable depth, something GD’s offense didn’t, so you don’t have to hide the ‘special’ plays in a closet.
I’m getting to thing few here have any idea about what is going to happen Saturday.
Managing is important
If you don’t think managing the game is a key roll for a QB look a the Jets. Their pretty boy QB gets looked at like he is a savior. In fact his numbers are horrible compared to other QBs that have to put up with constant controversy. If you look at the Jett’s few losses they have a lot to do with Sanchez trying to get tricky. If he just let his Defense have good field position they would probably never loose.
No as far as what you are saying about Colt… I disagree but only regular season play can prove either of us correct. UT can win 8 games as long as GG does not turn the ball over. So if that is what we want to do then he is a good choice.
I agree with Mr. Bean that starting GG makes perfect sense for Mack. You start the guy and if he messes up you pull hiim and then just go RUN as much as you can the rest of the season until either McCoy or Ash prove themselves. I will say that given J. Shipley will probably be our star receiver it would be cool for C. McCoy to be throwing him the ball. The more important thing is to win and much like aTm did last year I hope we over perform our perceived preseason potential. They had a change at QB and it was good. So if GG throws a few picks or fumbles. He gets pulled and we see what the long term future looks like. If he controls the ball and manages we win 8 to 10 games. I will be happy either way.
Not his
Someone on another website went back and watched the games from last year. He concluded that 6 of the 17 INT’s were on Gilbert. The others were on the line or the receivers.
I'm a GG defender ...
… but on the lineman-caused INTs, GG is responsible for finding a throwing lane even if the O-linemen are collapsing like cardtables. If there is no lane, he shouldn’t throw it. However, I agree that most of the INTs were not attributable to him. Some other folks think that the receivers are dropping the balls because GG throws it too hard and has no touch. That’s hogwash. Most WRs will tell you that a zipped-in throw enables them to catch the ball and not have to wait for it while hearing footsteps. It’s just a crisper offense that functions well. Just ask Troy Aikman’s WRs if they had any complaints about his velocity.
WTF?
I didn’t say he was a game manager. Learn to read. I said he can be a "game-manager".
"Hey, don't y'all think that's beautiful right there? That crystal is SO beautiful. And it's coming home to Texas." - Vince Young
Great perspective
If only I thought Mack was thinking the same way you are. From his press conference comments, he’s either still playing mind games to overcome entitlement in GG or he himself isn’t seeing what he wants out of QB from any of the players. The practice reports would suggest that all the QBs are functional, and that the difference should be in leadership potential. And this leadership potential is what we’re not seeing from GG. I’m not sure why, but GG’s posture and attitude always seems to be one in which he’s thinking about how HE is doing rather than about how the team is doing. Mack’s comments make it sound like that light bulb still hasn’t come on.
Nevertheless I agree that GG needs to fail in public rather than in practice for this whole issue to come to resolution.
Entitlement rears it's ugly head by introducing Mack himself.
It appears Mack sets everyone up with their own sense of entitlement by the fact of giving starting assignments to individuals that have experience. This was Macks’s own complaint last year, yet he re-introduces this year.
Burnt Orange is the Only Orange
by burntorange81 on Aug 30, 2011 1:26 PM CDT up reply actions
The worst case scenario as I see it
Is that Gilbert does a mediocre job, keeps the reins for the entire season and the backups don’t get meaningful playing time. That leaves us is the exact same spot going into next year.
My thoughts exactly
And if Gilbert struggles, or simply doesn’t demonstrate the ability to be better than average, then I’ll be excited to see what the new kids can do
The problem with this line of thinking is that I really can’t see Mack making a switch at QB if the team is winning, no matter how much the offense and QB are struggling. Winning + Avg QB Play = Starting QB keeping his job.
Having said that, I agree with the overall point of PB’s article.
by Horncasting on Aug 30, 2011 9:14 AM CDT up reply actions 1 recs
My worry too.
In that scenario we have 7 or 8 wins and next year in fall camp guess what Gilbert again isn’t that impressive, but still has the most experience and is still older. Then we suffer through another mediocre season wiht him and then a new quarterback with no experience takes over the next year and the possibility of another mediocre season as he’s getting his sea legs.
At least part of the above can be avoided if, even if Gilbert doesn’t lose the job, the backups get some truly meaningful snaps and experience.
by tdwalsh on Aug 30, 2011 10:43 AM CDT up reply actions 2 recs
That is the truth
I’m glad someone else is saying it.
PB, you made the point yourself: we’re not a QB away from a BCS bowl. Let’s say Gilbert starts every game this year, McCoy is the backup, and Ash plays in the Ash sets. Next year we find ourselves in the exact same position: A veteran QB who won’t wow anybody, McCoy going to class and enjoying Austin, and Ash as the QB the fans want to see — and then add into the mix Harsin’s hand-picked quarterback, the guy he wants to run his system, and the most important cog of the recruiting class. That situation would make this off-season’s quarterback controversy seem simple and clear-cut.
I may stand alone here but to those who are afraid of Gilbert transferring, I say that might be the best thing that can happen to a team that’s going to take its lumps this season anyway.
Is there anyone on this board who believes, in their heart of hearts, that Garrett Gilbert can, with the right team around him, lead Texas to a championship? If so, let me hear you. I wish I could believe this, but I don’t. I believe the next championship quarterback at the University of Texas has yet to take a snap.
Simplicity is always the secret, to a profound truth, to doing things, to writing, to painting. Life is profound in its simplicity. - Charles Bukowski
by windycityhorn on Aug 30, 2011 2:21 PM CDT up reply actions 2 recs
Yes
Greg McElroy did it. Garrett Gilbert has tons more potential than that joke.
by TheElusiveShadow on Aug 30, 2011 4:00 PM CDT up reply actions
I respect that opinion
You’ve posted a lot of well-thought-out ones on this board.
McElroy is Exhibit A. But let’s not forget, he was a high school All-American, 5A Player of the Year, and held the record for touchdown passes for a Texas high school player (it might have been broken since). In his last two years at Alabama, he threw only 9 picks against 39 TDs. Not world-beating numbers but pretty good. But yes, he played on ridiculously stacked teams.
The reason people still dog McElroy is he had some poor games (against pretty good competition, mind you) and that for many, he failed the eye test. You can’t quantify that. And my — only my — opinion is, GG fails that same test.
Simplicity is always the secret, to a profound truth, to doing things, to writing, to painting. Life is profound in its simplicity. - Charles Bukowski
by windycityhorn on Aug 30, 2011 4:14 PM CDT up reply actions
As a collegian, McElroy was the epitome of a game manager ...
… even though he was prolific in TxHS. Tee Martin – Tennessee – was not a world-beater either. Matt Mauck – LSU – was pedestrian. There are plenty of examples of average QBs becoming good enough as a game manager to put their team in position to win a national championship. With more mature play-making, Gilbert will be just fine.
Gilbert will play big this season
For some reason I just think he’s got the talent, he just needs some help on the o-line an RB position to take some pressure off him. Horns win 9 games this season…Aggies launch major choke campaign on their way to the SEC. Gamecocks win National Championship. Booya.
by Dawnpatrol on Aug 30, 2011 6:41 AM CDT via mobile reply actions
I hope you're right because I consider 9 wins a successful year for us considering
Interesting prediction on the Gamecocks, but not so crazy when I think about it.
It Ain't Easy, But It's Worth It.
Did you hear that the Aggies also applied for membership in the Mountain West.
It’s their safety conference in case the SEC balks.
Though many Ags are already complaining that the bighorn sheep mascot gives Colorado State a recruiting advantage.
@longhorn54b
by 54b on Aug 30, 2011 9:24 AM CDT up reply actions 4 recs
Hilarious!
You’re better than coffee this morning, 54b…
Uncle. Enough already. In the words of Apollo Creed:"ain't gonna be no rematch" Mercifully, thankfully, the eyes of Texas will no longer be on Nebraska. Oklahoma never inflicted this kind of torture. Please Mack Brown, take your whips and chains and leave the good folks of Nebraska alone! - Omaha World Herald 10-17-10
CPF
the bone zone?
I want out.
Greg Davis haikus; a lot like his offenses; always go sideways.
by pleaseplaykindle on Aug 30, 2011 10:46 AM CDT up reply actions
LMAO
It is going to be interesting to see how they deal with next year. They are at a peak year. They loose half their starters to the NFL or eligibility next year. They enter an SEC which is mostly rebuilding for next year.
I see them loosing 70% of their conference games and having a 5-7 season. The SEC does not care as long as they get the TV money and get access to TX recrutes.
Actually I am not sure the Ags will care
I am not so sure even they think they can win the SEC or that this is even about winning. They had plenty of mediocre seasons in the SWC and Big 12, so they are used to that. If they wanted to be “king of the hill,” they would join the WAC or Mountain West or the like. . This is about sticking it to UT (or “tu”, as they prefer), it’s about getting out from under "Big Brother’s shadow., it’s about being accepted into the “best fraternity” on campus. If they go 6-6 or 5-7, they can still say it was against the toughest competition, that they play in the best conference in the country. Furthermore, if our annual game comes to an end, they will say either we are afraid of them or that we are pounting because they left.
"Only angry people win football games." --DKR
Agreed on their motives.
Fine. They can go 7-5 while UT goes 12-0 in a weak conference, or as an independent, and plays for the national title.
We will lose 3 on offense and 4 on defense after this year
It will be interesting to see how we do next season, b/c the three we lose on offense are Tannehill, Fuller, and Gray. Michael will replace Gray, so not an issue there, and we have plenty of depth at WR to make up for the production of Fuller. Plus, with Nwachukwu and Swope, it isn’t like we’ll be lacking for playmakers at WR. The question on offense will be replacing Tannehill. The whole offensive line returning, veteran star tailback, and a stacked WR corps means the next QB can be a game-manager if we need him to be in his first year as a starter.
Defense will be the big question, as we lose 4 of our front 7, including the whole interior line, and one ILB. We’ll have to see how good the young talent that is depth this year does, because those will be the starters in 2012.
Five star high school quarterback
Got to be a head thing, hell Graham Harrell played better at Tech than GG is at Texas. Maybe GG now needs corrective lenses?
Don't think
Any QB in Tech’s old offense can be held to a similar standard to anybody other than Hawaii, Houston, etc.
Follow me on Twitter @GoHornsGo90
by GoHornsGo90 on Aug 30, 2011 11:14 AM CDT up reply actions
I think Texas
will go 9-4, start talkin a bunch of garbage, and then leave the conference. haha
"Stability is a factor in teams that win the championship. But if you stabilize on a team that's going to end up short of that, then all you're doing is spinning your wheels in the 45-win range."-----Daryl Morey
by fanoflosingteams on Aug 30, 2011 8:21 AM CDT reply actions
I think we're going 10-2, start a paramilitary to replace the Aggies, and use it to snuff out trolls
@longhorn54b
Troll snuffing! You bet!
NT
Uncle. Enough already. In the words of Apollo Creed:"ain't gonna be no rematch" Mercifully, thankfully, the eyes of Texas will no longer be on Nebraska. Oklahoma never inflicted this kind of torture. Please Mack Brown, take your whips and chains and leave the good folks of Nebraska alone! - Omaha World Herald 10-17-10
CPF
I think Gilbert would actually benefit from coming off the bench
Let Case start against Rice and throw a few ducks, maybe an interception, maybe a fumble. Then let Ash come in and fumble a snap and go the wrong way on a hand off. Or, one of them goes gangbusters, plays well and secures the starting role (sorry Garrett).
If either Case or Ash does not play well…then GG gets to come in and save the day. All the fans will shut up about the backup QBs and Garrett won’t have nearly as much pressure on himself.
In his current starting role, Garrett is unlikely to become an alpha leader because the players and fans see him as having anointed leadership and not earned leadership and Garrett know this too deep down. But, if everyone sees on the field that GG is clearly better than Case and Ash, then he’ll have earned leadership and I think a lot of his beta tendencies will melt away.
Unfortunately, we won’t get a chance to see this scenario because Garrett is starting against Rice and in the only open scrimmage in the last 9 months, he was outplayed by Case.
Not an unreasonable thought
But Gilbert probably transfers if he loses the job heading into the season, don’t you think?
75-37-5. Now GTFO.
Actually, I think he becomes Matt Nordgren's understudy/stunt double
@longhorn54b
by 54b on Aug 30, 2011 9:14 AM CDT up reply actions 1 recs
That's crazy talk...what if Case or Ash realize their full potential and play well
Then that’s just going to make it even harder on Gilbert.
Come on, sing with me…
“Garrett, Garrett, he’s our man, if he can’t do it…the shit’ll hit the fan.”
@longhorn54b
Rice is basically an open scrimmage
Hopefully we’ll get to see it considering how little the LHN has been picked up.
TEXAS FIGHT
I disagree totally
I think PB had it exactly right initially. The wiser move is to start GG if, as is reported, his game has been improving and no other QB laid a strong claim to the job. The GG choice gives the coaches a chance to see if GG will step up to the job under the new system, a last chance for GG. Unless there is a strong reason (i.e, a QB who clearly earned the job), the wise move is to give GG the shot. He was afterall a 5 star recruit and worked in a GD scheme that was widely criticized last year and with an OL that was below par. PB explained the advantages of this move well. I just hope that Mack & Co. have the same mindset.
I liked the decision, until I read your thoughts.
I’ve been rooting for GG, and I have been holding out hope that he has finally turned the corner after the brief demotion. . .
That being said, you are right: the team’s focus is on 2012 and 2013. That being said, I would rather not go with a QB who may not be the answer in 2102, and can’t be the answer in 2013.
"A&M has had every opportunity over the past 50 years to emerge from Texas' shadow, and failed." - Jean-Jacques Taylor
That being said...
And if the sonofabitches are gone, then it is goodbye. Good enough. nt-whills
by run Bevo run on Aug 30, 2011 10:24 AM CDT up reply actions
Here's what's going to happen...
I went to see the fortune teller down the street, yeah the one with the 3rd nipple that Jesus Shuttleworth goes to….anyway she said the 3rd moon of Jupiter is in Uranus meaning Gilbert will likely break his finger early in the UCLA game giving way to an unheralded upstart freshman QB who will draw strength from his fiery disposition, smallish hands and unremarkable childhood to win football games and capture the hearts of Texas fans just long enough for Mack to recruit Troy Aikman’s love child with Trisha Yearwood who turns 18 next month and also happens to play QB.
Expect a QB controversy in 2012 and gas to be $4 a gallon.
@longhorn54b
Short Term Memory
Watching College Football Live yesterday and Robert Smith, one of the talking heads, said that James Kirkendoll told him that no matter what happened last season, GG still believed he was a winner when they were in the huddle. Maybe the damage to his psyche is not as pronounced as we all think and he will flourish in the new system. Hook Em!!!
Here is a link to the video, comment is around the 1:18 mark:
It's good to know how to read, but it's dangerous to know how to read and not how to interpret what you're reading.- Mike Tyson
Maybe Robert Smith has The Cure for GG
Watching College Football Live yesterday and Robert Smith
And if the sonofabitches are gone, then it is goodbye. Good enough. nt-whills
by run Bevo run on Aug 30, 2011 10:26 AM CDT up reply actions
He sure bailed us out with Mecha-Streisand
QB Garrett Gilbert was the Beavis & Butthead episode of the 2010 college football season. Even when things were going well there was always one bad decision that meant he wasn’t going to score.
http://cfn.scout.com/2/1070636.html
by burntorangehorn on Aug 30, 2011 11:19 AM CDT up reply actions
And if the sonofabitches are gone, then it is goodbye. Good enough. nt-whills
by run Bevo run on Aug 30, 2011 11:41 AM CDT up reply actions
He needs to roshambo Bob Stoops
QB Garrett Gilbert was the Beavis & Butthead episode of the 2010 college football season. Even when things were going well there was always one bad decision that meant he wasn’t going to score.
http://cfn.scout.com/2/1070636.html
by burntorangehorn on Aug 30, 2011 12:25 PM CDT up reply actions
I am not a big fan of trying to read minds...
Without any firsthand knowledge, I don’t know where the “Gilbert’s confidence is shot,” or “Gilbert isn’t mentally tough,” stuff comes from. Pretty easy to say that from your couch, but it is kind of hard to actually know these things.
So if this is true:
Kirkendoll told him that no matter what happened last season, GG still believed he was a winner when they were in the huddle.
then Kirkendoll (who actually has been around Gilbert) might be in a better position to evaluate this stuff than we are.
I know people don’t like the body language and stuff like that, but I am not a big believer in reading body language. Who has good body language when they are getting the crap beat out of them? If Gilbert was all smiles on the sideline, people would have been on him for not taking things seriously.
We just don’t know anything about Gilbert’s confidence. All we know is that he didn’t play very well last year, and we then start to look for things that explain why.
I am on Twitter @jeffchaley
I'm in for giving GG a shot..
I am more nervous for this back up though. From all accounts that I have seen, Case has a very weak arm. I think i’d be more comfortable with David Ash as the #2.
Manny Diaz will take your lunch...and eat it too...
GAWWWW
I just want to see the 7 jersey pulled from shelves. Every time I see his jersey it’s a big ole reminder of last season. I was really hoping that someone else would take over so those would die out for a bit. Either that or feature someone else’s number on the team jeez.
TEXAS FIGHT
My biggest fear with GG is his presence seems to deflate the team's spirit.
If that’s no longer the case, and the team rallies around him, then I’m happy for him and I look forward to (OMFG do I look forward to) a turnaround season. There are some comments for teammates that suggest they are supporting him now.
I somehow trust that Harsin will not put up with any petty BS from his QBs and won’t let a flaky GG malaise infect the team. Never saw any such thing at BSU anyway.
I think/hope/pray that most of GGs issues were due to they dysfunctional family that was last year’s offense. With an honest-to-God running game and an intelligent offense that is actually fun to operate, I think/hope/pray that GG will be able employ his superior throwing abilities (to the right colored jerseys).
Bottom line, we need to beat the shit out of Rice. I’m mean, we’re paying the institution enough money to remove any guilt of running up the score. Anything under 50 points to me is a disappointment and reveals underlying issues. It needs to get so out of hand that we see lots of McCoy and/or Ash if they aren’t trying to redshirt Ash. I want Mack to have to apologize for it “getting out of hand.”
I’d like to see if Case is still throwing ducks off his front foot and getting his prayers answered or if he’s actually improved A LOT in that regard.
Finally, let me repeat: Beat the shit out of Rice. I mean really, really beat the ever-loving shit out those poor bastards. Let it get out of hand. Be proud of it getting ugly. Be fired up and ready to destroy BYU after they get let out of their compound. And let’s get some revenge on those schools that got in a punch last year. Go Horns!
Lol... Was this said with some sort of Alcoholic Beverage in hand?
Agree to a point. I’d also like to see the score be that much, simply because I’d like to see who is behind gilbert, but i’m not one for “running up the score”. Mack is not the kind of coach that does that, and that’s fine by me. Sportsmanship is a great thing to see these days.
Manny Diaz will take your lunch...and eat it too...
I'm a little coffee drunk, definitely.
But we need to fire out of the gate full-speed and not let doubts creep in.
Crappy football against Rice will bring out the boo birds and could destroy team confidence and any excitement they have about the changes.
Nothing against Rice. Great school.
I’m not calling for lack of sportsmanship. I mean, I’m no Hurricane fan. I just want the offense to be unleashed for at least 3 solid quarters and the result be 50+ business-like points. That’s all I ask!
If GG plays to his potential
The Horns will be wicked good. Highly offensive, obnoxious scores are possible.
I'm not necessarily for "running up the score"...
…but I pay a metric buttload of money to The University to watch four full quarters of football when I make the trip. I absolutely cannot STAND to spend the last quarter watching the ‘Horns run it up the middle three times and then punt just so the score doesn’t get obnoxious.
If the world was a school, we'd be homecoming king...
The Great Deflater!
Follow me on Twitter @GoHornsGo90
by GoHornsGo90 on Aug 30, 2011 11:16 AM CDT up reply actions
ESPN Video
Robert Smith said that James Kirkendoll told him that last year, even in the worst games, Gilbert always considered himself a winner in the huddle, that he didn’t lack for leadership or confidence. Methinks the fanbase reads way more into GG’s expressions of self-anger than his teammates do.
Oh, and, for what it's worth, this is EDSBS' take on this:
This thread is full of win, imo.
Greg Davis haikus; a lot like his offenses; always go sideways.
by pleaseplaykindle on Aug 30, 2011 11:02 AM CDT reply actions
Mack on a Mobile on a variety of subjects
http://www.sports790.com/pages/mattandadam.html?article=9021141
Copy it to your browser & then click on the red X for Mack on a mobile. Pretty funny stuff here.
Burnt Orange is the Only Orange
Your reasoning is sound, Peter
The point that we likely won’t be in contention for the NC or BCS vs. the fact that I’m annoyed by Mack not necessarily picking the best guy is hard to choose between, for me.
Follow me on Twitter @GoHornsGo90
Mack need to quit being the psychiatrist for GG
It’s time to either show you can handle the job or move on to the next. GG put up or sit down. The same with the o-line. They have to control the line of scrimmage. We never did last year for more than a few series at a time last year. Hell, i’m ready!
Burnt Orange is the Only Orange
by burntorange81 on Aug 30, 2011 11:32 AM CDT up reply actions
I'm always a fan of your analysis, PB
And you’ve always been the voice of reason when these types of storms come in, but this feels a little bit like window dressing. That old cliched saying, “You can put lipstick on a pig, but it’s still a pig,” kind of rings true for me right now. I know that we’re looking at a potential rebuilding year, and we would hate to ruin the confidence of one of our young QBs by throwing him to the wolves in that type of year, but GoBR’s post yesterday that Mack didn’t sound overly confident in Gilbert makes me worry that nothing has actually changed. If that’s the case, and they’re all on the same level regarding their actual play, why not give one of the other two a shot to prove their leadership capabilities? Gilbert has had an entire season and this whole off season to show his leadership capabilities and hasn’t.
I know that we’ll never know what has really been going on behind the scenes during this blacked out off season, and I ultimately trust our coach’s judgment on this, but I’m worried that it will be business as usual in this department. That Gilbert will show just enough potential in our early games that he won’t be pulled, then we’ll get to the meat of the schedule and it’ll be too late to make an effective switch when he reverts to his old habits (because the young guys won’t have gotten the experience early on). I hope I’m wrong, but I’m proceeding cautiously.
There is so much beauty because life can be so symmetrical that it gives birth to this almost silent poetry . . . (like) a girl who's terrible at grammar saying, "Mama, you raised me good," and then being pushed down a well . . .
I find it interesting the response to Mack...
Last year, he was “blowing smoke” regarding the run game and things that needed to be fixed throughout the season. The press conference became somewhat laughable (or depressing depending on your coping strategies) due to Coach Speak and a lack of honest appraisal.
IMO, Mack is erring on the side of being overly critical of Gilbert and the QB decision in order to make amends for what many felt was a lack of authenticity. Mack finds himself in a lose-lose scenario, he anoints GG and praises him the fan base thinks its hyperbole/conspiracy to protect GG. Mack is more critical and says the position is going to continue to be “open” based on performance, the fan base takes that as GG fell backwards into the position.
All this lead me to ask, was there anyway Mack could have made GG the starter without the tearing of clothes and gnashing of teeth from the fan base? IMO, I don’t think there is a way he could have pleased everyone.
That said, I trust more Harsin’s appraisal that Gilbert did win the job, but as with all position it will come down to game time to see if he keeps it. Why would we want it any other way?
Excellent point about Mack's dilemna
But if he’s going to anoint GG the starter and ignore what supposedly occurred in practice, he deserves the derision that fans will inevitably exude. If GG is actually the best QB and Mack just can’t find anything positive to say about him, because all the QBs are actually that bad or he doesn’t want to raise expectations, then he will be vindicated soon enough I’m sure.
Follow me on Twitter @GoHornsGo90
by GoHornsGo90 on Aug 30, 2011 12:05 PM CDT up reply actions
I find it a bit bizarre that many people are doubting that Gilbert won the starting job in practice
Harsin himself said he outperformed the other QB’s. We routinely dismiss Mack’s talk as political mumbo jumbo, mind games, or coachspeak, and we praise Harsin for his candor. But now we are dissecting Mack’s comments as possibly meaning that Gilbert is only starting because he’s older and not taking Harsin’s comments at face value? It’s inconsistent.
Gilbert may fail, but as far as I can tell, he earned the starting job the past few weeks in practice by being better than the other guys. Practice and games are different, but that’s up to Ash or McCoy to show the coaches they deserve to unseat him.
by TheElusiveShadow on Aug 30, 2011 12:12 PM CDT reply actions 1 recs
I'm not trying to call Harsin a "liar"
Per se, but I think Mack could have taken a roundabout way to get him to come around to the thinking that GG was better or needed to start for whatever reason, and thus had Harsinwhite call certain plays FOR certain guys WITH certain guys on their side AGAINST certain guys on the other side. Perhaps I’m assuming too much nefariousness here, lol.
Follow me on Twitter @GoHornsGo90
by GoHornsGo90 on Aug 30, 2011 12:23 PM CDT up reply actions
While I don't necessarily agree
I think its worth noting the lack of trust the fanbase has in Mack. Even in the absence of a legitimized conspiracy theory, that there is so much speculation and so many assumptions moving in that direction is a telling indictment of Mack’s past behavior. I honestly have no good reason for believing there is anything nefarious here, but the apparent sense that there is more to the story than what we’re being told is probably Mack’s doing entirely, which is to say he has only himself to blame.
by BrooklynHorn on Aug 31, 2011 11:53 AM CDT up reply actions
Agreed. They only visuals we have to judge are 2010 and the spring game.
Both of which were nightmares, so people are reasonably and naturally skeptical. Harsin and Brown have seen him lately. And we all hope he’s truly doing better and that’s why he’s starting.
Harsin said, “Gilbert had the best camp of the quarterbacks. I’ve been very happy with his progress and maturity at that position.”
That’s enough for me. For now. Game performance will of course decide the issue.
BTW, I would love to actually watch it on LHN but I’m not in Pearland. Just lowly Austin. Sleepy little town. Probably never heard of it.
I emailed Harsin and ask him to borrow a page from my son's first grade teacher.
She has a gantt chart on the wall and she puts gold stars next to the kid’s names when they do a good thing.
Maybe if Harsin had a chart like this, then we could tell who was practicing the best.
Even better, he could put the gold stars right on their helmets like tOSU does every time one of their players ties his shoes correctly or can produce a receipt for his latest tattoo.
@longhorn54b
What I don't understand about the practices
is that from what I read Gilbert did poorly the first practice and was demoted to #3. He did better the next practice and was back up at #1. How can you go from first to third and back to first in the space of 2 practices? Consistency is important. Shouldn’t the fact that he was demoted to #3 (even temporarily) cause some concern, and how bad were the others doing that he suuddenly jumped over them? I think what this all boils down to is that Mack, as I predicted at the end of last season, feels more comfortable going with the guy with experience, no matter how bad the experience was.
"Only angry people win football games." --DKR
I think the qualitative judgments of the QBs' performances in practice might not be best taken as pure fact
QB Garrett Gilbert was the Beavis & Butthead episode of the 2010 college football season. Even when things were going well there was always one bad decision that meant he wasn’t going to score.
http://cfn.scout.com/2/1070636.html
by burntorangehorn on Aug 30, 2011 6:48 PM CDT up reply actions
The same reason why he was demoted after just one practice
Works both ways. Again, there is no reason to look for some Mack conspiracy. If Harsin says Gilbert had the best overall camp, I’ll believe him. That’s all we have at the moment. Obviously, when the games start this week, we’ll have new data.
by TheElusiveShadow on Aug 30, 2011 10:35 PM CDT up reply actions
ehh Rice or Iowa St
If GG beats BYU and UCLA then he is definately the guy for OU. I want that UCLA game and I want that OU game this year. It’s time for some pay back, and I dont care who is the QB who does it. Zero to hero for who does, might even inspire some TV deals. We need the run to be credible and OL time for some throws, Im looking for sharp passes on target, no zinger overthrows for safety picks, touch thrown balls db’s back shoulder, good power to the sidelines and tight spirals downfield, throwaways when routes are jumped, and the defense to dominate and give the qb short fields. A lot of pressure on this kid, I wish him good luck, good health and to play well. Hopefully we can see the game ATT, I want to see Bergeron, the new plays and new D.
ATT Uverse spokesman said they'd turn LHN on if Mack agrees to start Ash
So I wouldn’t hold your breath until the Iowa State game.
@longhorn54b
I can't wait for the LHN debut game. It will be awesome.
I can just imagine UT abusing Rice in Hi-Def. Can you see it? I can.
Good post, PB.
I have always felt GG would probably earn the starting role this year. And I am one to agree that, if Case or David have not shown anything truly spectacular in the offseason, then GG deserves another shot. It’s hard to say what will truly happen, but I can only see his performance improving under Harsin. I have faith that we’ll truly have a more established run game this time, and assuming some of the o-line has matured and Davis/Shipley will be reliable, this could be a remarkably different year for Garrett.
http://allthingslonghorns.blogspot.com
I laughed
QB Garrett Gilbert was the Beavis & Butthead episode of the 2010 college football season. Even when things were going well there was always one bad decision that meant he wasn’t going to score.
http://cfn.scout.com/2/1070636.html
by burntorangehorn on Aug 30, 2011 5:09 PM CDT up reply actions
When???
DURING THE SPRING GAME MORON!!!! I don’t care if his passes were ducks…..THEY WEREN’T INTERCEPTED!!!!!
READ THE ARTICLE YOUR COMMENTING ON……..
“Gilbert won the job because he’s simply older.”
Dude
When you grow up, you’ll learn that statistics need context to be relevant.
Calm down, you'll give yourself an aneurysm.
Whoever said laughter is the best medicine had clearly never tasted Scotch.
I said they did not show anything spectacular
I think if Ash or McCoy proved more successful in the offseason than GG, one of them would be the starter. McCoy may have showed more in the Spring game, and Ash in recent practices, but that is not necessarily enough to be given the starting job.
We obviously don’t know much behind the scenes, either. We can only assume from Mack’s comments that experience is the primary deciding factor.
http://allthingslonghorns.blogspot.com
Spring Game
I don’t know what spring game people were watching. Half of McCoy’s throws looked like they’d just been deflated by a duck hunter.
Best Chance
Garret does actually give Texas the best chance to win.
With are oline still in question lets just see what happen three game into the season
David Ash should be starting...PERIOD!!!
Garrett Gilbert SUCKS!!! After a 17 INT, 10 TD, and 5-7 season followed by a 3 INT, 0 TD Spring/Fall performance, I for one have seen ENOUGH to not want his lousy arse back under center.
Case McCoy is #2 for ONE reason only…his name! HE ISN’T COLT PEOPLE. If everything that’s been said of him is true, he has Horrible footwork and the weakest arm on the team.
David Ash!!! If everything is true that’s been said of him, he has pinpoint accuracy, has taken control of the offense, has gained the respect of the ENTIRE team…including the Defense…has out performed every other QB. SO WHY IS THIS STILL A DEBATE??? I don’t care that he’s a freshman. Being a Freshman isn’t keeping him from being the best QB on the roster is it? Being a Freshman didn’t keep Major Applewhite, Chris Simms, and Vince Young off the field did it!
Vince Young..
Vince Young was never declared a starter as a Freshman…He redshirted and split time with Chance Mock.
Vince wasn’t a starter till his redshirt Sophomore year…
We get that you don’t like GG…and that’s fine. I, for one, and waiting to say whether the kid is a bust or not till after I see the Scheme. We don’t know what GG’s done. All we have seen are 2nd,3rd and sometimes 4th hand practice reports.
Manny Diaz will take your lunch...and eat it too...
Looks like you don't really have a choice in the matter now do you?
GG is gonna start whether you like it or not. So either watch the games or don’t…I could care less either way. I’m just saying, why not give the kid a shot. It’s a completely new offense, with new schemes and even new personel. It might actually fit him well.
Manny Diaz will take your lunch...and eat it too...
This reports says different
The quarterback situation seems pretty locked down, especially after the last two practices plus the scrimmage performances by Garrett Gilbert. Gilbert had what the Asset termed as a "stellar day" in today’s work. He made all the correct reads, was as accurate as he’s been all camp, and showed off the arm strength we all know he has. The most important piece of information is that Garrett seems to be going through his progressions much better now, especially today.
http://barkingcarnival.fantake.com/2011/08/23/tuesday-practice-report-from-the-asset-2/
Here is another
Word we get from our guy inside is that Gilbert had another really good day. He’s found his niche and a lot of that has to do with that supporting actor known as the running game. There’s a funny thing happening in the trenches and it bodes well for the democratic theory of play action, scoreboards, and Longhorn success. Today we heard that Gilbert parlayed a solid rushing attack into bigger windows leading to accurate throws and further solidified his hold on the number 1 position on the depth chart. The Asset tells us that is two great practices in a row with some of it coming against the ones on defense.
Perhaps the world is not entirely black and white?
There words....
“Gilbert threw two interceptions during live action at DKR Saturday evening,”
“Gilbert only picked up one first down during his time and the field and, according to Barking Carnival, showed the poor body language that often defined his time on the field last season.”
Here is another
Gilbert moved the ball really well only had one bad throw. The Asset was really surprised by his play because he looked much more confident and in command than he has at any other point in fall camp. It seems a fire was lit. Gilbert made a lot of good reads and created time by showing great pocket presence. When Okafor would create pressure, Gilbert was adept at moving up to buy an extra tick. He only had one throw that could have been picked. Otherwise, this is the best he’s looked. He looked like the experienced QB fans and coaches have come to expect.
Ash played solidly but not as well as Gilbert.
Point being
It isn’t as black and white as you make it. There are a ton of reasons that Gilbert looked bad last year, but no one truly knows how much of it was on him vs. his supporting cast and terrible OC.
From all reports throught the entire camp, Ash showed very well early but Gilbert looked better in the last half of camp and seems to have finished with some strong momentum. If that is truly the case, then Gilbert has earned the right to start the first game IMO.
Personally, I’d favor Ash for the long term future of the team, but I’m not getting out the annointing oil until I’ve seen him with my own eyes.
Keep in mind there was almost the same amount of buzz for Connor Wood last year.
If he showed something towards the end of camp that wasn’t released, then sure. I’m just not a fan of making a QB change during the season. That rarely works out.
It was released...
You can go look at the practice reports from the “asset” on BarkingCarnival. It was a weekly thing leading up to Zero week.
Manny Diaz will take your lunch...and eat it too...
I wasn’t to familiar with BarkingCarnival until you mentioned it. I usually read this site, orangebloods, and MackBrown-texasfootball. I guess I can add BarkingCarnival to my list.
It was actually a very good release of information
Wrecker is right. This is a good week for us. We have been waiting for this for a long time now. GG is on a very short leash. If he does not perform well, then I’d imagine you’re going to see a lot of Case and a lot of Ash. But what if GG actually does perform and exceeds expecations? We are in a for a hell of a ride for a football season.
Manny Diaz will take your lunch...and eat it too...
Blogs
Barking Carnival and Recruitocosm have been very good and accurate this year. They seem to have many contacts high up in the program.
Hard to know how accurate the player appraisals are
I think those sites are a lot of fun, and there’s always a lot of very interesting and worthwhile reporting. But things were pretty positive on there in many respects last year, even about Gilbert, so it’s important to remember that the perfectly understandable element of confirmation bias is usually in play on such reports.
QB Garrett Gilbert was the Beavis & Butthead episode of the 2010 college football season. Even when things were going well there was always one bad decision that meant he wasn’t going to score.
http://cfn.scout.com/2/1070636.html
by burntorangehorn on Aug 30, 2011 5:12 PM CDT up reply actions
New one up today
Hot off the presses.
Simplicity is always the secret, to a profound truth, to doing things, to writing, to painting. Life is profound in its simplicity. - Charles Bukowski
by windycityhorn on Aug 30, 2011 3:49 PM CDT up reply actions
Step away from the boldface. No more punctuation needs to be abused here.
We can get through this together.
We are all acutely aware of GG's past performances.
And so are our therapists.
But we are all hoping the complete overhaul of the coaching situation changes that.
Let’s all stick together this week and support the team. If we suck ass this weekend, then by all means bust out the ALL CAPS, multiple exclamation points, bold, italics and whatever else you can think of.
I want to underline something.
Can you install that as an option for me, WreckerTex?
One more comment...
“Perhaps it was a function of him knowing he wasn’t going to get hit”…I notice this last sentence was missing from your comment. Wouldn’t you agree that takes away from the rest of it?
Understood...
But does that take away from what we’ve seen Gilbert do during his other 13 live performances. Look, IF Gilbert has a complete 180 this year, I’ll be the first to eat crow. However, already knowing what he looks like against live competition, I’m ready to see someone else…who we haven’t seen in that situation.
Not sure if anybody ever addresses this
But Vince did start as a freshman.
Follow me on Twitter @GoHornsGo90
After he redshirted
And after Chance Mock bombed out.
Chance did not "bomb out".
He was beaten out by an other-worldly talent. He had plenty of talent to start here for a couple of years.
Speaking of LHN..
Has anyone heard anything about Comcast picking it up?
Manny Diaz will take your lunch...and eat it too...
Damn. Comcast is the only provider for my Apartment complex
Manny Diaz will take your lunch...and eat it too...
Lol, i'm definitely a regular to the "O" channel..
Kidding aside, I really hope they decide to pick it up. It would almost seem dumb for them not too.
Manny Diaz will take your lunch...and eat it too...
Fan Bias....
This is the problem with most fans. They want to give every player on their team the benefit of the doubt, regardless how bad that player may be. Then you don’t want to admit reality until it’s too late! Well, not me. I saw enough last year. I DO NOT want to go through another 5-7 season…Especially when the team we have is good enough to be a BCS team.
Garrett Gilbert had his chance…HE BLEW IT!!!
Nice try, David Ash.
Greg Davis haikus; a lot like his offenses; always go sideways.
by pleaseplaykindle on Aug 30, 2011 2:10 PM CDT up reply actions 1 recs
Fan Bias
Those same people who blame Gilbert for 5-7 refuse to believe that it was anyone else’s fault. Last year’s team had problems far beyond GG. He was just the face of it.
He and GD were the faces of it, I would say
And while each contributed to the overall failure, neither was nearly as culpable as the fansites’ tones would seem to indicate.
QB Garrett Gilbert was the Beavis & Butthead episode of the 2010 college football season. Even when things were going well there was always one bad decision that meant he wasn’t going to score.
http://cfn.scout.com/2/1070636.html
by burntorangehorn on Aug 30, 2011 5:13 PM CDT up reply actions
I'm with you on Gilbert
But not Davis. GD really dropped the ball last season, and I was never someone who called for his head after every year.
by TheElusiveShadow on Aug 30, 2011 10:25 PM CDT up reply actions
I heard that the trainers stopped giving the players gatorade during gamebreaks.
GG sucks! I know that was his fault. If Ash was playing, I know we’d have gatorade!
Not just gatorade--Cristal-flavored Gatorade
QB Garrett Gilbert was the Beavis & Butthead episode of the 2010 college football season. Even when things were going well there was always one bad decision that meant he wasn’t going to score.
http://cfn.scout.com/2/1070636.html
by burntorangehorn on Aug 30, 2011 6:52 PM CDT up reply actions
If by "savior" you mean "he who makes the grass green"...
QB Garrett Gilbert was the Beavis & Butthead episode of the 2010 college football season. Even when things were going well there was always one bad decision that meant he wasn’t going to score.
http://cfn.scout.com/2/1070636.html
by burntorangehorn on Aug 30, 2011 6:56 PM CDT up reply actions
That'd be the one.
Man, I am so hoping that Gilbert plays great this year. It would be a crow-eating fest.
So, no one decisively wins the starting job in Fall practice
and you’re arguing a season-long competition is okay, because ‘this isn’t a championship caliber team, anyway’?
The object of the game is to win. The goal for the season is to win every game. The fact that Gilbert hasn’t decisively won the starting job means to me that the coaches think he is the best chance for y’all to win right now, so he is getting the job be default.
Y’all may lose to UCLA and BYU regardless of who is under center.
So the Ags were giving OU a head start last season by waiting to start Tannyhill until like Game 5?
What was your philosophy last year…win just enough to get to the SEC?
@longhorn54b
Still no invite from SEC?
Maybe they should have planned ahead and had a successful program BEFORE they tried to crash the gate and demand an invitation?
If a man is alone in the woods and he speaks, if no one hears him,,is he still wrong?
Sherman stayed loyal to Jerrod until it was obvious he wasn't able to do the job
At the time, I understood what he was doing, and had no problem with him keeping Jerrod in there.
There is no ‘y’ in Tannehill, fyi.
We won enough last year to win the South and beat two top 10 teams, so we were doing something right.
Beat Baylor at home, then come talk to me.
"Beat Baylor at home, then come talk to me."
Texas owns a .742 winning % over Baylor
Agrocult owns a .668 winning % over Baylor
Eat a dick.
And if the sonofabitches are gone, then it is goodbye. Good enough. nt-whills
by run Bevo run on Aug 31, 2011 7:52 AM CDT up reply actions
So being loyal is okay, but being honest is not?
Perhaps if Sherman had let Jerrod know that he expected him to earn the starting position everyday leading up the season and everyday after, that team might have won a lot more than a consolation south division trophy.
When an Aggie team actually realizes its full potential, you’re welcome to open your mouth again.
And you can spellcheck me right after you learn to capitalize a proper noun.
@longhorn54b
"There is no ‘y’ in Tannehill, fyi."
And there is, most decidedly, no “t” in “Texas”. Learn to spell first, then you can throw out grammar lessons.
by robthecob on Aug 31, 2011 9:43 AM CDT up reply actions 1 recs
You may lose all of your games regardless of who’s under center. Just sayin’.
See ya later, alligator.
by Paleface Horn on Aug 30, 2011 5:18 PM CDT up reply actions
75-37-5
Remember?
If a man is alone in the woods and he speaks, if no one hears him,,is he still wrong?
Beergut would like to remind you that the Douche Baggies are undefeated since leaving the Big XII.
@longhorn54b
That's not fair. You can't take such a small slice of data to make a judgement on the program.
The Aggies have won two bowl games the last twenty years so it’s no wonder the SEC is practically humping their leg. Elite conferences demand elite talent and the Aggies deliver.
They do indeed deliver.
Chinese food guy and pizza guy were both sporting aggy caps. You’re right.
If a man is alone in the woods and he speaks, if no one hears him,,is he still wrong?
1-9 in your last 10 bowl games
Remember?
And if the sonofabitches are gone, then it is goodbye. Good enough. nt-whills
by run Bevo run on Aug 31, 2011 7:55 AM CDT up reply actions
It boggles my damned mind
How we have one down year and they have one pretty good year, and all of a sudden that one year is the only fucking one that matters. Forget a decade of 10+ wins coupled with multiple BCS appearances and wins and a national championship. We are now inferior to Baylor. Aggie logic at its finest.
There is so much beauty because life can be so symmetrical that it gives birth to this almost silent poetry . . . (like) a girl who's terrible at grammar saying, "Mama, you raised me good," and then being pushed down a well . . .
SEC!
Your input is no longer required here.
Greg Davis haikus; a lot like his offenses; always go sideways.
by pleaseplaykindle on Aug 31, 2011 10:26 AM CDT up reply actions
You are ignoring context, as usual
The object of PB the fan is to win championships. I’m sure once you’ve joined the SEC for a few years your fanbase will start to understand that mindset…
And So the Die is Cast...
Obviously the coaches have decided that it’s better to go with GG than upset the QB recruiting apple cart by putting Ash in now and losing Brewer. What’s a single season to sacrifice in their grand scheme of things, huh?
So, buckle in for another year in the basement, as the fiercest of Texas opponents get ready to pile on in another payback season. The view from down here apparently is pleasingly tolerable enough for them to endure.
So, I get the politics of the choice, even though I don’t agree with them. But I don’t understand why Longhorn fans are so eager to let GG lead us to another mediocre season. Best I can come up with is that everyone seems to enjoy pulling for the hometown high school hero more than they want to see the college team do well.
Kind of like pulling for Al Bundy. I guess all y’all aren’t ready to see GG selling shoes in the mall yet, recounting the glory days when he led his team to state championships as he holds and smells the corn-riddled and lint-filled feet of repulsive obese women. One big difference, though, is that at least Al was a lovable loser. GG is just an emotionless unlikeable entitled snot who would be better served by an outside lineman blowing a block on his blind side that takes him out of the game long enough to allow us to see a winner spring from the sideline and take over the season.
(I truly wish no harm to the kid, he simply doesn’t belong, doesn’t deserve, hasn’t earned anything but riding the pine for the remainder of his Longhorn career.)
I am so glad that there are people here like you.
Your insider information and uncanny grasp of GG’s real persona is … amazing. I wish you were the coach.
In All Seriousness...
If GG can’t handle being benched after being so terrible last season, couldn’t even deal with being benched after throwing 4-5 picks in the K State game (plus how many fumbles?), lest his confidence be hurt; if GG can’t handle being benched or named backup this season after such a dismal season last year, lest he transfer; if GG can’t handle the boo-birds that accompany sucking as royally on the field as he does….then every single word I used to describe him above is accurate, taking no special talent in psychoanalysis. And for coaches and some fans not to see that reality is an astounding ostrich-like performance worthy of an Animal Planet Oscar!!
That's Mack, not GG
Who said GG couldn’t deal with being benched? Mack said he didn’t want to hurt his confidence. That was Mack’s opinion, not GG’s. You’re putting your analysis on GG in exactly the same way Mack did. If GG couldn’t handle the boo-birds, he wouldn’t have trotted back onto the field. He would have been in the corner crying.
If everyone wants to criticize Mack for "coachspeak", then they can't hang on every word ...
… he says on something like this. I’ll grant him some leeway – he is not obligated to tell all of us monkeys what he’s thinking, if it jeopardizes the program’s success. I’ve said this before: Against KState, I really don’t know the reality (none of us do, unless you’re the coach) of why he left GG in ‘til the bitter ugly end but I think it had everything to do with trying to save McCoy’s & Wood’s redshirts – NOT protecting GG’s psyche. With the (non-participatory) year McCoy had last year, it’s highly possible that he could get a year back in ‘14, if need be. Gilbert was, far & away, the only talented QB for UT last year that could’ve given Texas any chance of winning a meaningful game – including a comeback vs. KState. In addition, he definitely wasn’t to blame for that ridiculous pass-heavy gameplan.
As far as all the negativity you’re spewing as factual comments on a 20-year old, it’s hyperbolic opinion, which you’re entitled to, but extreme nonetheless. GG was a SOPHOMORE last year. Give the kid a freakin’ break. He’s got talent & he’s gonna be fine. Be positive!
Well, Thanks, Griff!
Maybe you and Officer Dan can change the name of your club from “NO MA’AM” to “NO WIN’S”
The INTs weren't the problem, the lack of big plays were
Last year, Gilbert threw an insane number of passes. He threw 441 times. Colt McCoy only had one season where he threw that many attempts, and VY never came within 100 attempts of that total. 17 interceptions on 441 attempts is less than 3.8% of the total number of passes attempted. In VYs junior season, he threw a pick on 3.1% of his attempts. (McCoy as a sophomore threw 18 picks in 424 attempts.)
The problems with the Texas passing game were the lower completion percentage and the lack of big plays. 10 TDs on 441 attempts is pretty poor. 6.2 yards/attempt is also pretty poor.
Now I am going to do something a little funny. Here are QB seasons A and B. Can you guess who they are?
QB Cmp Att Pct Yds Y/A TD Int
A 260 441 59.0 2744 6.2 10 17
B 276 424 65.1 3303 7.8 22 18
QB A is Gilbert in 2010. QB B is McCoy in 2007. McCoy was better in 2007 than Gilbert was in 2010, obviously. And of course, this was Colt’s poorest season. But it is important to look at the ways in which McCoy was better. His interception rate was not better. The difference was in completion percentage, and in yards per attempt (and per completion).
I don’t buy that Gilbert is a lost cause. If we just hit a few big plays, he can be at least as good as Chris Simms, who had a similar completion percentage and only a slightly lower INT rate.
We just need to make some plays.
I am on Twitter @jeffchaley
Correction
17/441 is not less than 3.8%. It is 3.85%. Oh well, I still stand by my main point.
I am on Twitter @jeffchaley
Please write a fanpost re: this.
I’d also like to comment that GG was being rewarded for checking down on 3rd and 17 by our offensive (read: of-FEN-sive) coordinator, and furthermore throwing the ball to nobody good.
But you know, fuck him and bring on David Ash.
Greg Davis haikus; a lot like his offenses; always go sideways.
by pleaseplaykindle on Aug 30, 2011 8:19 PM CDT up reply actions
Excellent point
I also find it ironic that Glibert accumulated more pass attempts than any recent Texas QB in a season for which the stated goal was a return to the power running game.
by BrooklynHorn on Aug 31, 2011 12:05 PM CDT up reply actions
WAKE UP!!!
Seriously people, for all of you defending GG…WHERE THE HELL WERE YOU LAST YEAR WHEN HE WAS PLAYING? You certainly weren’t watching! I don’t care what the punt return team did or didn’t do. I don’t care what the O-Line did or didn’t do. I CARE ABOUT WHERE THE HELL OUR QB LED US…And that was 17INT’s 10 TD’s, AND A 5-7 RECORD! THAT’S NOT ARGUABLE!
You want to defend him, FINE! Then I don’t want to hear SHIT from you when we miss yet ANOTHER bowl game.
If I’m wrong, GREAT! That means we actually had a great season. BUT IF I’M RIGHT, WHAT THE HELL are you people going to be saying at the end of THIS season?
THIS ISN’T HIGH SCHOOL…WHY ARE YOU DEFENDING HIM???
This dude is approaching "troll", or even worse, "Beergut" levels of irritating.
OR MAYBE THIS IS DAVID ASH.
Greg Davis haikus; a lot like his offenses; always go sideways.
by pleaseplaykindle on Aug 30, 2011 8:20 PM CDT up reply actions
Delusional!!!
What’s irritating is the delusional people making excuses. You’re one of them. If you would have never heard of Garrett Gilbert’s success in HIGH SCHOOL, would you STILL be defending his lousy ass???
Cause I don’t care what records he broke in HIGH SCHOOL…THIS IS COLLEGE and the only records he’s broken so far are all the streaks that he’s snapped for us.
So get your head out of your ass and look at reality….it’s 5-7!!! Hell, I’m appalled that I seem to be the only Texas alum/fan who has a problem with that…THAT is irritating. MORON!
What's irritating is hang-wringing drama queens who are posing as armchair CEO coaches.
QB Garrett Gilbert was the Beavis & Butthead episode of the 2010 college football season. Even when things were going well there was always one bad decision that meant he wasn’t going to score.
http://cfn.scout.com/2/1070636.html
by burntorangehorn on Aug 30, 2011 8:48 PM CDT up reply actions
Oh, dear...
Lively debate is good — great even — but all caps, “MORON!” isn’t really going to win friends or influence people.
So please try, just for me. Particularly because your larger point, that Gilbert hasn’t really proven anything on the field yet, is fairly reasonable.
I am on Twitter @jeffchaley
MAYBE!!! IF YOU USED!!! MORE!!! CAPS AND!! EXCLAMATION POINTS????
We’d all understand better?!?!?
Whoever said laughter is the best medicine had clearly never tasted Scotch.
I've noticed that the national press isn't paying too much attention to
the Texas QB situation. It seems that ND, Ohio State and many other schools’ QB battles are getting lots more attention. This causes me to believe the national press thinks the Texas QB situation is nothing more than four division 2 quality QBs fighting for a division 1 job. It seems to me the coaches gave the job to the “oldest” given that none of the other candidates stood out.
So I truly hope the other 23+ players can carry us through the season because I don’t think we have a quality QB…………
Great players make great coaches, but great coaches make champions." DKR circa 1964
Right...
…Texas recruited four D2-quality QBs. Even Rivals and Scout thing so.
QB Garrett Gilbert was the Beavis & Butthead episode of the 2010 college football season. Even when things were going well there was always one bad decision that meant he wasn’t going to score.
http://cfn.scout.com/2/1070636.html
by burntorangehorn on Aug 30, 2011 8:52 PM CDT up reply actions
No, we all got the point just fine ...
… and the point was stupid.
Metaphorically?
QB Garrett Gilbert was the Beavis & Butthead episode of the 2010 college football season. Even when things were going well there was always one bad decision that meant he wasn’t going to score.
http://cfn.scout.com/2/1070636.html
by burntorangehorn on Sep 2, 2011 9:58 AM CDT up reply actions
Except for GG all were three star QBs and I think they would have been
one or two star if Texas hadn’t recruited them. I live up in Ohio and a kid in our town was rated one star until Ohio State recruited him and then he went up to three star.
Great players make great coaches, but great coaches make champions." DKR circa 1964
He is a redshrit senior and good special team player.
Great players make great coaches, but great coaches make champions." DKR circa 1964
Ash and McCoy were three-stars
Wood was four, and Gilbert was five.
QB Garrett Gilbert was the Beavis & Butthead episode of the 2010 college football season. Even when things were going well there was always one bad decision that meant he wasn’t going to score.
http://cfn.scout.com/2/1070636.html
by burntorangehorn on Sep 2, 2011 9:58 AM CDT up reply actions
The day Gilbert was chosen as the starter
ESPN.com had a headline on its front page, and the news also made the quick hits on ESPN radio’s regular sportscenter updates. Its possible that I suffer from selective memory here, but I don’t remember any other program’s quarterback decision getting that much press, including Notre Dame, who also recently chose a starter.
Although it might also have something to do with our new partnership with ESPN. But still.
by BrooklynHorn on Aug 31, 2011 12:11 PM CDT up reply actions
Opinion
Look, think what you want. You’re entitled to do that, as am I. But don’t act like a saint when I give my opinion and you act like it’s stupid, then I turn around and do the same thing.
I’m giving my opinion on GG based on what I’ve SEEN. Everyone else seems to be defending him base on what they THINK he is capable of. Fine.
I’m giving my opinion on McCoy and Ash based on what I’ve heard about them from the Sring game and Fall scrimmage. I obviously understand that the information may not be incredibly accurate. But I also know that the very article we’re all discussing flat out says GG won the job soley because he’s older. That means he DID NOT earn it through his performance. Yet everyone is still defending him. Why?
In addition
If you think I’m for off of what I’m saying, then why has every report for the last 2 weeks made it sound like McCoy and Ash would be the top 2? Why did GG only take 10% of the snaps with the 1st team offense during the scrimmage 2 weeks ago. Why has everyone including the entire defense praised Ash and only Ash?
Now you are just making stuff up or ignoring when you've already been proven wrong
This has been disproven in 3 different reports above, which you have already admitted you hadn’t read prior to your other 20 post that were ill informed.
why has every report for the last 2 weeks made it sound like McCoy and Ash would be the top 2
You keep bringing up the Mack Brown quote about the decision being solely based on Gilbert being older. There was another story today on Barking Carnival saying that Mack is distancing himself from the process and Harsin is the one deciding who starts. If that is accurate, perhaps forming an opinion based on Mack’s comments (or Peter Bean’s interpretations of such) might not give you the entire picture.
The report below is from yesterday (and was reported on this site):
Co-offensive coordinator Bryan Harsin had a slightly different take, saying that Gilbert earned the job by outperforming the other quarterbacks after a demotion following his disastrous two-interception performance in the fall’s first scrimmage. More effusive praise, especially after Brown hardly gave Gilbert a ringing endorsement earlier in the day.
Again, another report differing from what you claim is “every report the last 2 weeks”.
Article
Are you referring to the article that was mentioned that I even went on to point out that the ONE aritcle used in GG’s defense also went on to say that the ONLY reason he was good in the scrimmage the other day was because he knew he wasn’t going to get hit? Seriously, THAT is your defense?
Could you perhaps link the rest of us up to this plethora of reports that McCoy and Ash were #1-2?
Because I sure haven’t seen them.
QB Garrett Gilbert was the Beavis & Butthead episode of the 2010 college football season. Even when things were going well there was always one bad decision that meant he wasn’t going to score.
http://cfn.scout.com/2/1070636.html
by burntorangehorn on Sep 2, 2011 10:00 AM CDT up reply actions
Question
As for as “being proven wrong” (first off, I’d like you to show me where), I have a question for you. Since I seem to be the ONLY person on this page backing up my opinion with stats and performance, give me yours….
WITHOUT including what he did in HS, what has GG done since being at Texas that should give you, me, or anyone else a reason to defend him and stick by him?
I’ve given you my reasons why I don’t defend him. So tell me why we should!….this should be interesting.
dude just chill
Its done Gilbert will be starting
formerly "Horns102591"
by horns1025 on Aug 31, 2011 1:21 AM CDT via mobile up reply actions
Gilbert Naywayers Stuck
I’m glad you finished out with suggesting Gilbert was the best choice. Remember, Brown is a PR man, and not a grate one at that. Harsin and Applewhie made the recommendation, two of the smartest coaches in the NCAA. Yes, we have to see what he’s going to do. But he played good last year, contrary to the naywayers. He has some weak areas, mainly leadership, that needs to be fixed, and concentration, that hopefully Harsin has already fixed by instituting a huddle offense. They played the entire year last year with a no huddle offense, and Gilbert looked to the side lines for signals, when he should have been allowed to read the field. The biggest problem Gilbert has has year was that he didnt’ have either a coaching staff or an offensive team around him. the ofensive team purely sucked, what’s a QB to do. Vince is the only Texas QB I know that could win games all by himself.
Brown's not a grate [sic] PR man?
Isn’t he known as one of the best in the business at that?
As for Harsin and Applewhite, I’ve seen little evidence that they’re two of the smartest coaches in the NCAA. Harsin has coached some very high-performing offenses, but at this point we don’t know if that was his or Peterson’s success. Applewhite really hasn’t accomplished anything in the Xs and Os dept.
QB Garrett Gilbert was the Beavis & Butthead episode of the 2010 college football season. Even when things were going well there was always one bad decision that meant he wasn’t going to score.
http://cfn.scout.com/2/1070636.html
by burntorangehorn on Sep 2, 2011 10:03 AM CDT up reply actions
Anyone hear Mack in the presser today?
…and I quote: “I’m pulling for them (his players)….no one knows how this is going to turn out, what with all the plays and schemes we’re throwing at them…we can’t know how it’s going to come together. I’m just excited to watch.”
“I’m just excited to watch.”???? My 11 year old daughter is ‘excited to watch’. Mack is either being a master sandbagger, or he is officially checked out. Does that sound like a head coach who OWNS the quality of play his team lays down?
I’m not just a little skeered.
Nah. Nothing he hasn't said in the past. That's just plain mack speak.
Coach Brown is always spotting up a chance to connect with fans. Sometimes is does come across a bit smarmy. Often times he is taking jabs at the media in the room. You have to wade through the glad handing to get to the red meat.
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no improvement
Gilbert has great talent. He just makes bad decisions. Colt did as a freshman, but he improved. He got sacked 12 times against Nebraska because he didn’t make bad decisions. Gilbert had 5 INTs against Alabama because he did. But I didn’t see any improvement in his decision making last year. When you’re 117th in turnover margin, it doesn’t matter that you outgain 9 of your 12 opponents-you still go 5-7. If Gilbert can’t learn to make better decisions on when to try to complete, when to throw it away and when to eat it, we can’t afford him as QB. I’ll take someone who doesn’t make as many mistakes but doesn’t make quite as many big plays.
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