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Big Game Bob makes another bad hire decision at LB Coach


http://www.newson6.com/story/16589955/tim-kish-hired-as-sooners-linebackers-coach

Star-divide

Tim Kish, the fired LB coach from Arizona will follow BGB's brother Mike to the Sooners as their LB Coach. The good news: he has no ties to Texas or recruiting here. The bad news: he does have good recruiting ties to California. I am happy with this trade off.

Sooner fans are not happy to have another 60 y.o. white guy on the staff trying to recruit 17 year old kids to Norman, OK. BGB is hiring family and friends instead of hiring the best available coach for the job. Comparing Mack Brown's hires last year to the BGB hires this year I am glad that In Mack We Trust.

OU took 1 MLB and 1 OLB last year (2011) and they have 0 MLB and only 1 OLB commit for 2012 as of now. None of these 2011 and 2012 commits are elite talent. While I won't be surprised to see OU go to the JUCO well, for now the state of turmoil at OU on defense together with our stable of 5 star RBs has me very excited to finally flip the power of good over evil in Dallas in the near future.

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this looks like some good news

i don’t really understand why, with a staff full of old men bob didn’t try to go for a young guy with that infectious energy a la Manny. That being said i’m glad they didn’t. I think there’s a real possibility that this offseason of coaching changes may end up biting OU in the ass in a very big way.

Here’s hoping it does! Hook ’em!

by cade21 on Jan 24, 2012 11:55 PM CST reply actions  

Nepotism and cronyism

Stoops stayed well within his comfort zone.

Arizona’s defense gave up 35 points a game to be ranked 107th. They gave up an average of 426 yds a game if I remember right from the OU site’s complaints about the hire.

OU regents had to approve a nepotism waiver for hiring Mike Stoops. (Just a bad idea in my opinion).

BGB had a chance to bring some much needed energy and new ideas into Norman and instead went with a familiar face. A 57 y.o. white guy can do fine coaching football (look at Mack), but having younger coordinators with fresh ideas and more energy is not a bad idea. Also, the staff at OU is pitifully white. I’m surprised at their lack of common sense to be racially diverse and appeal to more guys. I hope that this gives our O and edge against their D.

We're Texas, We're not OK.

by Wrangler86 on Jan 25, 2012 9:43 AM CST up reply actions  

i headed over to Crimson and Creme to see what they were saying and i have to agree with a lot of their sentiments that this is the kind of complacency that leads to 5-7.

Coordinators with fresh ideas? But that may mean they question the infallible Bob Stoops which clearly can not be allowed to happen.

by cade21 on Jan 25, 2012 10:25 AM CST up reply actions  

i headed over to Crimson and Creme to see what they were saying and i have to agree with a lot of their sentiments that this is the kind of complacency that leads to 5-7.

Coordinators with fresh ideas? But that may mean they question the infallible Bob Stoops which clearly can not be allowed to happen.

by cade21 on Jan 25, 2012 10:34 AM CST up reply actions  

I'd love to disagree with either of you, but I simply cannot.

It disgusts me to be admitting that on a UT site, but I’m not gonna hide from it either.

"The less I know about other people’s affairs, the happier I am. I’m not interested in caring about people. I once worked with a guy for three years and never learned his name. Best friend I ever had. We still never talk sometimes." - Ron Swanson
Crimson and Cream Machine - There's only one Oklahoma!
Listen to Sooner Nation, the #1 podcast for OU fans

by Jordan Esco on Jan 25, 2012 10:44 AM CST up reply actions  

jte ...

… how was Mike Stoops viewed by the fanbase in his 1st tenure w/ OU? Is anyone happy about this hire or do they just see it as the “old & tired” same ol’ thing?

by robthecob on Jan 26, 2012 12:46 AM CST up reply actions  

It's a mixed reaction IMO

There are some of us, myself included, that don’t think a similar type shake up to what you all did w/ your staff would be a bad thing. I’m really starting to wonder if Bob still has the drive to be the best in the country and I thought bringing his brother back and this latest hire were a sign of that.

I do think Mike can bring some toughness back to the defense and I’m a fan of some of the differences he and Brent Venables have, but schematically (which is where I think we’d be well served by changes) very little will be different IMO.

The biggest positive in Mike coming back is that by all accounts he’s the only person
Bob has ever had on staff that will get in his face and challenge him on things. Which is something I think Bob desperately needs.

"The less I know about other people’s affairs, the happier I am. I’m not interested in caring about people. I once worked with a guy for three years and never learned his name. Best friend I ever had. We still never talk sometimes." - Ron Swanson
Crimson and Cream Machine - There's only one Oklahoma!
Listen to Sooner Nation, the #1 podcast for OU fans

by Jordan Esco on Jan 26, 2012 2:36 PM CST up reply actions  

I agree about their relationship.

I think Mike can get in Bob’s face … and still maintain a healthy respect for him w/out undermining him. Probably everyone else has become a yes man to him because of his aura of greatness.

by robthecob on Jan 26, 2012 3:19 PM CST up reply actions  

I think that can happen a few times

If it happens for more than a few games, then I think it will be a mutual decision that BGB NOT to fire Mike, but that BGB and Mike call upon one of their other coach friends to be DC even if it isn’t a top 10 caliber school

We're Texas, We're not OK.

by Wrangler86 on Jan 27, 2012 11:45 PM CST up reply actions  

jte....

…you should do a q&a over here for us. What is the word on Metoyer? Is he still in limbo at the clearinghouse and does there come a point that it is too late to enroll? What if he doesn’t get cleared, does he have other options?

We're Texas, We're not OK.

by Wrangler86 on Jan 26, 2012 9:41 AM CST up reply actions  

According to his father

And multiple sources who have confirmed it, Metoyer was finally just cleared by the NCAA Clearinghouse. This was the second week of classes I believe and I think the talk was that as long as he didn’t miss more than that he’d be fine academically once/if he got cleared.

As for a Q&A, I doubt many here would be all that interested but if I’m wrong I’d definitely be up for it. I very much enjoy what BFLT does Sunday nights here and I hate Texas, so that’s a real testament to what he and all of you bring to that (along w/ everything else here of course).

"The less I know about other people’s affairs, the happier I am. I’m not interested in caring about people. I once worked with a guy for three years and never learned his name. Best friend I ever had. We still never talk sometimes." - Ron Swanson
Crimson and Cream Machine - There's only one Oklahoma!
Listen to Sooner Nation, the #1 podcast for OU fans

by Jordan Esco on Jan 26, 2012 2:33 PM CST up reply actions  

If Metoyer gets enrolled at OU

I really think that will bar DGB from going. I’m not looking forward to defending either of them, but if you get Metoyer and we get DGB at least it is a push. That is a big IF for us.

We're Texas, We're not OK.

by Wrangler86 on Jan 26, 2012 2:59 PM CST up reply actions  

Metoyer

I wish him luck in his classes, but if he had this much trouble getting out of high school and enrolled at OU the last thing he needed was to be 2 weeks behind. Pretty unfair situation.

We're Texas, We're not OK.

by Wrangler86 on Jan 26, 2012 3:00 PM CST up reply actions  

I don't watch all of the recruits' highlights videos like most everyone else but ...

… out of all of the ones I’ve seen over the past few years, Metoyer’s blew me away the most. He was so dynamic and dominating in HS. He was on the other end of the spectrum from Shipley’s consistency & precision surgical approach. If Metoyer ever gets his academics settled up, I really think he’s going to be great.

by robthecob on Jan 26, 2012 3:43 PM CST up reply actions  

He's apparenlty jumped hurdle 1 to get into OU

I hate OU, but I don’t hate Metoyer. However, if he stays eligible for more than a few semesters I will be shocked.

We're Texas, We're not OK.

by Wrangler86 on Jan 27, 2012 11:47 PM CST up reply actions  

Is he still going to OU or is he at a JC right now?

Is he definitely still going to OU? Is there an option that he could go elsewhere?

by robthecob on Jan 29, 2012 3:21 PM CST up reply actions  

What's wrong with 57YO and white?

Granted, the staff has Shipp, and I’m not sure what Norvell’s background is, but you’re right that they’re not exactly a diverse staff. I do think Stoops, like Switzer, probably relates well to minority teens. I don’t get the age thing, though. Sure fresh ideas are good, but those can come from old guys from outside the program as easily as they can come from young guys outside the program, and the old guys generally bring the benefit of experience.

"Anti-intellectualism has been a constant thread winding its way through our political and cultural life, nurtured by the false notion that democracy means that 'my ignorance is just as good as your knowledge.'"
― Isaac Asimov

by burntorangehorn on Jan 25, 2012 2:14 PM CST up reply actions  

it's true

that those fresh ideas can come from older coaches but I find it hard to believe he will be bringing that many fresh ideas when he’s been under Mike Stoops for the past 7 or 8 years and will continue to be

by cade21 on Jan 25, 2012 2:42 PM CST up reply actions  

Possibly true, but I just don't think he's very good

Fresh ideas aren’t really the problem.

"Anti-intellectualism has been a constant thread winding its way through our political and cultural life, nurtured by the false notion that democracy means that 'my ignorance is just as good as your knowledge.'"
― Isaac Asimov

by burntorangehorn on Jan 25, 2012 3:05 PM CST up reply actions  

Execution however...

" Answers --Become Resources."
Without Questions, There are limited Resources...

by KWashburn on Jan 25, 2012 3:15 PM CST up reply actions  

I think a well balanced staff would have both and "all of the above"

There should be young, up and comers together with seasoned veterans. Diffrent players relate to diffrent types.

The bottom line is they should hire THE BEST coach for the job. Kish had the 107th best defense under Mike Stoops as HC. I fail to see any reason to hire these guys EXCEPT for the nepotism and cronyism.

We're Texas, We're not OK.

by Wrangler86 on Jan 25, 2012 4:03 PM CST up reply actions  

Here's what I wrote on Nix:
Great, I start reading up a little to brush up on Nix’s defensive production and draft picks, see in his wiki bio that he has eleven fingers, and I can’t find a picture that shows his entire left hand (the right has five–I counted). This is going to drive me nuts.

Anyway, Nix has coached up a lot of excellent all-conference and all-american performers, national award winners and nominees, and NFL draft picks. He made guys like Rod Davis, Jasper Brinkley, and Michael Boley (who played low-level competition as a RB/S/WR in HS) into really good linebackers. He also coached Adalius Thomas as USM. His defenses had very good rankings all but in his last year at USM (2004) and last two years at Ole Miss (2010-2011). It’s hard to know what happened at Ole Miss, but I have a couple of theories:

1. Loss of talent that was not successfully replaced. Nutt often seemed to treat recruiting as an afterthought at some of his other stops, and that held up at Ole Miss. When Nix’s defense lost future NFL players Periah Jerry (after 2008 season), JaMarca Sanford (2008), Kendrick Lewis (2009), Ashley Palmer (2009), Marshay Green (after 2009), Greg Hardy (2009), Emmanuel Stephens (2009), Patrick Trahan (2009), Cassius Vaughn (2009), and Jerrell Powe (2010). They also lost some solid starters who didn’t play in the NFL. Sure the losses of Jerry, Sanford, and Powe hurt, but that defense lost seven starters just to the NFL, not counting guys who didn’t make or are not currently on NFL rosters, after that solid 2009 season and prior to the significant drop for 2010. Returning star and NFL-caliber DE Kentrell Lockett also missed the opener (heart) and then suffered a season-ending injury very early. Their top defensive recruits from Nutt’s first class weren’t around (Stephens and Trahan were jucos and went to the NFL, Demareo Marr transferred, Derrick Herman and Jared Mitchell were moved from DB to WR, Horatio Williams didn’t qualify and went to juco and then LSU, Julian Whitehead and Darius Barksdale transferred, etc.), and of those who did play defense there in 2010, only Justin Smith was considered anything better than a two-star (mid-major quality) recruit. The same story was largely true for the second class, including top juco recruit Hornsby, who was released from scholarship due to felony assault charges, transfers like Willie Ferrell, and of course plenty of guys who didn’t qualify. Sure one could argue that Nix should’ve coached up what talent he had, but that many losses in one off-season can kill, especially when effed up by mediocre recruiting and double-effed by attrition of the least-mediocre recruits.

2. The offense went from very competent to one of the worst in FBS. While Snead wasn’t good, he was better than anyone Ole Miss has had since, and they were actually forced to start Masoli, who had zero experience in that kind of offense. They lost all but three starters on offense, including its three best in RB/slot receiver Dexter McCluster, OL John Jerry, and WR Shay Hodge. They were in the bottom ten in FBS in scoring offense, total offense, 1st downs per game, 3rd down percentage, 4th down percentage, penalties, and sack yardage lost. I’m not sure what their total turnovers were, but they were ranked 88th in the nation at -6. They were also horrible in rushing average (3.4yds/carry, 17th-worst), passing yards per game (151.7, 13th-worst), sacks allowed (34, 19th-worst, and likely would’ve been 18th-worst but for the 13th games for some ahead of them), and bad in rushing yards per game (129.6).

3. Coaching turnover may have played a key role on both sides of the ball. Popular Ole Miss alum OC Kent Austin, who at least provided some sort of balance to Nutt’s desire to control the offense in addition to being the HC, left after the 2009 season to take the head coaching job at Yale. He was succeeded by co-OCs Dave Rader and Mike Markuson. Rader, a former Tulsa HC and Alabama OC, had been out of football three years and working in sales for a manufacturing company in Tulsa when Nutt hired him. He was so bad he lasted just one year before he was fired and went back to his sales job. Markuson had already been Ole Miss’ OL coach and running game coordinator, and filled either OL coach or OC positions under Nutt every year since 1993, including at Murray St., Boise St., and Arkansas. He’s now the OL coach at Wisconsin, and probably very well suited for that job, but having him and Rader as co-OC’s with a micro-managing Nutt was a recipe for disaster.

Anyway, long post, but the short of it is that Nix had mostly great runs as DC and LB coach at all his stops, and there are probably good reasons to look past the precipitous dropoff in 2010-2011. I think he’d make a good DC for a lot of programs, but an excellent hire as a LB coach for OU. I’m sure Steve Spurrier, under whom Nix was DC at South Carolina, can give his own former DC a pretty good idea of what he’d be getting in Nix.

"Anti-intellectualism has been a constant thread winding its way through our political and cultural life, nurtured by the false notion that democracy means that 'my ignorance is just as good as your knowledge.'"
― Isaac Asimov

by burntorangehorn on Jan 25, 2012 11:13 PM CST up reply actions  

Would have been a better hire

I guess Stoops did interview him, but the deal with Kish was already in motion probably.

We're Texas, We're not OK.

by Wrangler86 on Jan 26, 2012 9:46 AM CST up reply actions  

Yeah, he was there last weekend

I really found myself liking Nix, the more I found out about him. He doesn’t have a flawless history as a coach (no apparent personal issues, though), but few with seventeen years in the business do.

I think Ole Miss actually could’ve done alright by keeping Nix as DC, but of course Freeze probably felt most comfortable bringing his familiar DC from Arkansas State. If Texas were in the market for a linebacker coach, I would think Nix a good idea. Seems Diaz fits the bill for the time being, though!

"Anti-intellectualism has been a constant thread winding its way through our political and cultural life, nurtured by the false notion that democracy means that 'my ignorance is just as good as your knowledge.'"
― Isaac Asimov

by burntorangehorn on Jan 26, 2012 9:59 AM CST up reply actions  

Not that I'm complaining,

but I think it’s worse not that he’s old and white, but that he has NO ties to Texas recruiting. Oh, and the D he coached was 110th in the nation.

by 40A on Jan 25, 2012 5:14 PM CST up reply actions  

That's right: he's not a particularly good coach, and also doesn't bring Texas recruiting "accounts"

I suppose Manny Diaz didn’t have anything going for him in recruiting either, but he certainly had some decent defensive performances. As I understand it, Kish does bring some modest SoCal recruiting, uh, familiarity. Good luck, right?

"Anti-intellectualism has been a constant thread winding its way through our political and cultural life, nurtured by the false notion that democracy means that 'my ignorance is just as good as your knowledge.'"
― Isaac Asimov

by burntorangehorn on Jan 25, 2012 10:52 PM CST up reply actions  

This is a pretty mediocre hire, IMO

I would’ve considered Tyrone Nix, who met with Stoops about the job last weekend, a great candidate for them, but they went with a guy who ran a pretty terrible defense in his one solo try. Granted, it’s possible he’s okay as a position coach, but it’s hard to say. He hasn’t really produced any NFL linebackers (there are UA LBs in the NFL, but they played DE under Tuiasosopo), but that’s not really an accurate indicator of how good a guy is as a college coach. In his one year as a solo DC, he coached the worst total defense and nearly the worst scoring defense in the conference 2011. They were fairly decent in 2010, but that was when he was co-DC with Greg Brown, and before that Mark Stoops was DC.

"Anti-intellectualism has been a constant thread winding its way through our political and cultural life, nurtured by the false notion that democracy means that 'my ignorance is just as good as your knowledge.'"
― Isaac Asimov

by burntorangehorn on Jan 25, 2012 1:02 PM CST reply actions  

Really?

Being 60 and white are not valid reasons to judge a coach! GROW UP!! His ability to recruit and develop talent are the true test!

by rcpcrcpc on Jan 25, 2012 1:45 PM CST reply actions  

I see how you tried to twist what I said.

So, you think his 107th ranked defense giving up 35 points and 426 yds a game got him the OU job? Talke about needing to “grow up” and catch a clue.

Other than his friendship and familiarity with Stoops and being an easy “yes man” what does he offer?

He had the 107th ranked defense under the same HC that will now be his DC. He has no ties to recruit in Texas. He brings no diversity or other demographic not already covered by the current coaches. Mike Stoops already had ties to the same area (southern Cal) as him. So, just what does he offer other than a familiar face to BGB?

Being 60 and white have nothing to do with his coaching ability, but his coaching ability clearly did not land him this job.

We're Texas, We're not OK.

by Wrangler86 on Jan 25, 2012 4:13 PM CST up reply actions  

What ties to SoCal does Mike Stoops have?

"Anti-intellectualism has been a constant thread winding its way through our political and cultural life, nurtured by the false notion that democracy means that 'my ignorance is just as good as your knowledge.'"
― Isaac Asimov

by burntorangehorn on Jan 25, 2012 11:07 PM CST up reply actions  

He just spent the last 7 years in AZ

Surely he developed some ties.

We're Texas, We're not OK.

by Wrangler86 on Jan 26, 2012 9:45 AM CST up reply actions  

I'm sure Stoops did try to be Arizona's version of the closer there

Although like Mack at UT, he probably doesn’t bring particular prowess in one region or the other, but rather let his assistants develop their territories. It looks like Kish’s territory, other than of course the in-state guys, was mostly SoCal (especially the Inland Empire and desert areas) and the inland cities further north (Bakersfield, Fresno, etc.). Of course the commitments he won were usually from battles with the likes of ASU, Colorado, Nebraska, and a bunch of mid-majors, not USC or even UCLA.

"Anti-intellectualism has been a constant thread winding its way through our political and cultural life, nurtured by the false notion that democracy means that 'my ignorance is just as good as your knowledge.'"
― Isaac Asimov

by burntorangehorn on Jan 26, 2012 12:20 PM CST up reply actions  

And, Pollyanna

If I was a regent at OU I would challenge BGB on this hire. They let BGB have a waiver on the nepotism to hire Mike Stoops which was already a suspect move (ie, that is why you have nepotism policies in the first place) and now they are allowing it to filter down the ranks.

I would make BGB show me the list of 4 other qualified candidates that he reviewed, considered and INTERVIEWED and then ask to know what makes Kish the better choice. BGB is making a mistake on quickly hiring a friend. But, if he didn’t learn from Mack Brown how bad that is we will have to show him on the field. I hope they keep Kish….it helps the Longhorns’ chances.

We're Texas, We're not OK.

by Wrangler86 on Jan 25, 2012 4:18 PM CST up reply actions  

"...didn't learn from Mack Brown how bad that is..."?

Are you talking about Greg Davis or about when Mack dipped into the nepotism pool himself?

by robthecob on Jan 26, 2012 1:35 AM CST up reply actions  

Now you make sense!

You brought fact and reason to the table, not his race or age!! WELL DONE!!

by rcpcrcpc on Jan 25, 2012 5:11 PM CST reply actions  

I can't stand racism or discrimination

And I did not in any way mean to imply that his race or age made him unqualified. I’m sorry to the extent my post in any way seems to suggest that.

I should have put some of the terrible Wildcat statistics in there so that it was more clear as to why he is not a hot LB Coach hire. After reading the stats it makes me wonder how Mike Stoops allowed such a bad defense himself. He is suppose to be a defensive guru.

Basically, I think it was just a flat out lazy hire and BGB threw a bone to his friend. He also threw a bone to his brother. A Sooner posted that if Kish wanted to help OU he would declince the position. I think that is pretty accurate.

We're Texas, We're not OK.

by Wrangler86 on Jan 25, 2012 5:26 PM CST up reply actions  

BIG GAME BOB AND MACK'S CONTRACT

I am a long time longhorn but look at the facts, Bob has won more Big 12 championships than Mack and isn’t it about time to stop the crazy spending
of our tax dollars on Brown. To the best of my knowledge the last two years
have not been something to cheer about. We recruit the very best but Mack
has this thing about not getting the kids to produce on the field. Let’s hope
that this trend will end “THIS YEAR” and not use the excuse that we are just
a young team.

by dbell on Jan 25, 2012 7:03 PM CST reply actions  

The contract extension is silly

Nobody seriously believes that Mack will be around in 10 years so they can commit to pay $10M a year starting in 2025 and it won’t matter.

And it certainly won’t do anything to stop the negative recruiting to Texas’ kids that they should be careful because Mack is about to retire. It is all a big fat nothing burger and irrelevant.

We're Texas, We're not OK.

by Wrangler86 on Jan 25, 2012 7:27 PM CST up reply actions  

id say his players that played in 2004 and 2005 produced pretty well

and the players he recruited who played through 2006-2009 played pretty well too

In The Morning To You

by horns1025 on Jan 25, 2012 10:32 PM CST up reply actions  

Mack isn't costing us any of our tax dollars

The football team’s revenue is more than enough to pay his salary plus funnel it into all the other athletics.

TEXAS FIGHT

by Darklust on Jan 26, 2012 7:43 AM CST up reply actions  

Kish

I think one of the motivating factors was this: OU has a distinctive style with how they use their linebackers and how they run their underneath coverages. If they felt like Kish could teach it based on what he had done at Arizona, it makes sense to bring him into Norman rather than getting an LB coach and hoping he can understand how the Stoops’ use LB’s.

To me the big question for them heading into the year is how they utilize Corey Nelson and Tony Jefferson, two of the best players in the conference. With Venables gone do we see Jefferson at Roy-Backer still? Do they audition Nelson there again? How do they best take advantage of Nelson’s hips and pass-rush?

by Nickel Rover on Jan 26, 2012 11:50 AM CST reply actions  

BGB

Can we stop calling Bob Stoops “BGB”? Every time I read over it quickly, I think it says DGB, and that’s a very different person. Let’s stick to calling him “Poop on Stoops”, or “PoS” for short. You know, that has a certain ring to it…

"ABC welcomes you to back to Vince Young Field" - Rose Bowl Sign

by mwjames on Jan 26, 2012 11:57 AM CST reply actions  

Yes, very diffrent

BiGB is that any better? I just love Big Game Bob because he is so narcisstic he probably thinks it is a compliment.

We're Texas, We're not OK.

by Wrangler86 on Jan 26, 2012 3:02 PM CST up reply actions  

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