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Top 40 Longhorns Of All Time: 2000-2006

Pb6_tiny by PB @ BON on in Basketball

I'm compiling a list of the Top 40 Longhorns of all time, and have a pretty good idea of which players I want to include, but this is project is tailor-made for a community project.  So I'm enlisting your help.

As I have mentioned before, I'm editing a Texas football preview book for publication in July 2007. One of the chapters will be a review of the best Longhorn football players of all time, and the more I think through this list, the more I think it makes a lot of sense to bring the list to the community for discussion.

Texas football goes back a long way, so here's how we'll do it. We'll start doing this list by decade and work our way back.  I'll present a list of every Longhorn football player who was honored as an All American at some point during their career. You review the list and in the comment section below, make note of the players you think deserve strong consideration for Top 40 Longhorns of all time status. If you want to make a point about where on the list they should go, feel free.

Note, too, that some Longhorns who may deserve consideration on this list did not receive any All American honors, so you'll want to think hard about any missing names.  Major Applewhite, for example, never received any All American honors, but it's hard to imagine this list without him on it. And what of Chris Simms? He's worthy of discussion, too.

So let's get started, beginning with 2000-2006.

-Players listed in alphabetical order.
-An asterisk indicates the player was a consensus First Team All American

2005 Will Allen
2002 Rod Babers
2004 Cedric Benson
2005, 2006* Justin Blalock
2006 Tim Crowder
2000* Leonard Davis
2002* Derrick Dockery
2006 Michael Griffin
2000* Casey Hampton (Note: All American in 1999 as well)
2003 Tillman Holloway
2005* Michael Huff
2001* Quentin Jammer
2003*, 2004* Derrick Johnson
2001, 2002 Corey Redding
2006 Aaron Ross
2005* Jonathan Scott
2000 Kris Stockton
2001, 2003 Nathan Vasher
2001 Mike Williams
2003 Roy Williams
2005* Rod Wright
2005* Vince Young

Those are your Texas Longhorn All Americans from 2000-2006. Who's worthy of consideration for Top 40 Longhorns Of All Time?

--PB--

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I'd vote for

Vince, Derrick Johnson, Roy Williams and Nathan Vasher. Please note that one or two of the OL and DL guys probably deserves recognition, but I'll be damned if I know who I'd pick over the others.

So take that.

by Kahuna on Mar 26, 2007 10:38 AM CDT   0 recs

Hampton

Casey Hampton is a "for sure" in my book.

--PB--

by PB @ BON on Mar 26, 2007 10:39 AM CDT to parent up   0 recs

What about Shaun Rogers?
The degree says TCU, but the heart says "Hook 'em"

by TCU Horn Fan on Mar 26, 2007 11:29 AM CDT to parent up   0 recs

ditto
Just Remember, No Matter What Happens, ou SUCKS.

by ouALWAYSsux on Mar 26, 2007 11:37 AM CDT to parent up   0 recs

Huff
Crystal Balls

by MMHorns on Mar 26, 2007 11:07 AM CDT   0 recs

Michael Ungar

Michael Ungar, Michael Ungar, Michael Ungar.

And of course David Thomas.

I have a commitment to the truth.

by steezy on Mar 26, 2007 11:07 AM CDT   0 recs

Damn, forgot about David Thomas........

Good call steezy

Just Remember, No Matter What Happens, ou SUCKS.

by ouALWAYSsux on Mar 26, 2007 11:39 AM CDT to parent up   0 recs

ungar was my favorite texas walk-on

it seemed like ungar was constantly the first man downfield on kicks, would breakdown right in front of the return man (halo rule days) then just PUMMEL them.

and i loved it when mack gave him a scholly his senior year.

assm.

...bleeding burnt orange in nyc since 2002

by cwofford on Mar 26, 2007 1:13 PM CDT to parent up   0 recs

i'll cut it in half for you

Cedric, Blalock, Leonard, Hampton, Huff, Jammer, DJ, Redding, Vasher, Roy, Vince

There's 11 that you can then cut from after compiling the first master list.

by Jason Mayer on Mar 26, 2007 11:29 AM CDT   0 recs

Yes on Major

There shouldn't be an argument to the contrary.  

Simms is questionable.  Depends on who you're leaving out to include him.

The degree says TCU, but the heart says "Hook 'em"

by TCU Horn Fan on Mar 26, 2007 11:36 AM CDT to parent up   0 recs

No on both

probably No on Major, although I love the guy
definitely No on Simms

by brentmcd on Mar 26, 2007 4:23 PM CDT to parent up   0 recs

I voted for

Vince Young
Casey Hampton
Derrick Johnson
Michael Huff

Sure was hard to only pick 4 ........

Just Remember, No Matter What Happens, ou SUCKS.

by ouALWAYSsux on Mar 26, 2007 11:37 AM CDT   0 recs

Not limited to four

We're picking the 40 best Longhorns of all time... These are just the players up for discussion from the 2000s.  In theory, all forty could come from this decade (though they won't, of course).

--PB--

by PB @ BON on Mar 26, 2007 11:45 AM CDT to parent up   0 recs

I'm waiting for the late 60's and 70's

for most of my picks. So I followed Kahuna's early 4 pick lead.

We're gonna have some fights on here when my generation of players come around.

Gonna be fun.

Just Remember, No Matter What Happens, ou SUCKS.

by ouALWAYSsux on Mar 26, 2007 1:22 PM CDT to parent up   0 recs

Us younger folks

Will look forward to your contributions.

Seriously.

--PB--

by PB @ BON on Mar 26, 2007 1:23 PM CDT to parent up   0 recs

It's a little hard

Cedric Benson, Justin Blalock,  Michael Griffin, Casey Hampton, Shaun Rogers, Michael Huff,  Derrick Johnson, Corey Redding, Nathan Vasher, Roy Williams,
Vince Young, Major Applewhite.

The offensive linemen don't seem like they'll get much consideration in this decade.  I feel like I'm slighting Dockery, not to mention Chris Simms.

by Bob LaBlog on Mar 26, 2007 12:13 PM CDT   0 recs

Little clarification?

40 greatest from all time and we're dividing this into decades?  If so, Simms is an absolute: No!  If you're talking about top 40 in this decade, you almost have to, though.  

Major is not a lock in my book.  He was a great player and an inspiration to many people.  I'm not saying he definitely doesn't belong, but I'd have to see the complete list to see whether or not I'd include him.  He wouldn't be above players like Nobis, James Street, Earl, Ricky Williams, etc.  So it really depends on where the list ends up.  To me, anyway, he is definitely in the discussion.

Another addition for me is Bo Scaife.  I loved that guy.

by GoHorns on Mar 26, 2007 12:47 PM CDT   0 recs

40 all time

Not 40 per decade.

We're breaking it down by decade to keep the discussion manageable. At this point, just gathering commentary on which players, in each decade, deserve strong consideration for the Top 40 of all time list.

--PB--

by PB @ BON on Mar 26, 2007 12:49 PM CDT to parent up   0 recs

simms and applewhite deserve consideration

3 things here: first, there were some lean years for texas football (see: the mid eighties to the late nineties).  Many of the best players in Texas history came from the last 7 years simply because there was more talent here in these years than there was in some earlier times.  We shouldn't feel bad about putting a lot of players from the last few years on the list, especially QB's.

Which leads me to point #2: What is the rubric we're using for "best"?  Major Applewhite is a folk hero and won a lot of games.  But Simms has a better record as a starter, better stats, etc.  I think Simms actually has the third best winning percentage of Texas QB's ever with at least 20 starts (after only Street and Young).  If we're talking on the field production, I think Simms deserves more consideration than Applewhite, who still deserves some.  It's not a stretch to say that Simms is one of the top 4 QB's in Texas history (with Street, Young, and Layne).

Third, i'm gonna go out on a limb and say VY should probably be considered for the list.

by billyzane on Mar 26, 2007 12:54 PM CDT   0 recs

Wow,

I love this stuff.  I agree with BZ (and not just about VY making the cut).  I think you might find that almost half of your top 40 all-time comes from this decade because of the talent level it has demanded.  As far as names for discussion:

Major Applewhite
Cedric Benson
Justin Blalock
Leonard Davis
Casey Hampton
Michael Huff
Quentin Jammer
Derrick Johnson
Corey Redding
Shaun Rogers
Jonathan Scott
Chris Simms
David Thomas
Nathan Vasher
Roy Williams
Rod Wright
Vince Young

That is 17.  I think probably only 11-12 will actually make the list.  But these guys deserve some serious consideration.  

"A lot of people look for the easy way to do anything, in swimming there is no easy way." - Eddie Reese

by SwimTexas on Mar 26, 2007 1:20 PM CDT to parent up   0 recs

Nothing like the annual

Off-season Applewhite/Simms debate. I think it should we should officially declare one week of the off-season as "The Nth Annual BON Applewhite vs. Simms Throwdown" and let us all rehash our feelings on the topic. If I had more time/inclination, I would go back and cut/paste my feelings on the debate from last year's go-round.

But I don't have the time/inclination, so: Yes, Simms won a bunch of games. For the most part, he was supposed to win those games. However, Major won a bunch of games that Texas wasn't supposed to win (or came close) and played the underdog card masterfully. Also, he didn't choke in the big games. Personal preference and all that, but I would guess that as the years go by, Major will be remembered as the seminal pre-VY Texas QB, not Simms. The spotlight on his nascent coaching career won't hurt either...

Lastly, better stats?  Check it for yourself.

So take that.

by Kahuna on Mar 26, 2007 1:55 PM CDT to parent up   0 recs

i concede the statistical edge to major

you are correct sir, and that's what i get for not actually doing any research and instead faking like i knew what i was talking about.

there are a few qualifications to that though.  the first being that texas threw the ball a lot more during the major years because in '99 and '00, texas had hodges mitchell as the starting tailback instead of cedric benson in the simms years.  but then that could get back to your original point that Simms had better players around him, etc.

anyway, i was actually an applewhite guy myself, but i still feel like Simms got a raw deal from the fans and continues to get a raw deal not because of what he was but because of what he wasn't: Major.  If he had merely taken over after Major graduated instead of taking the job from him (which wasn't his fault), people wouldn't be so hard on him still.

by billyzane on Mar 26, 2007 2:46 PM CDT to parent up   0 recs

You're probably right

re: Simms raw deal from fans. The enduring image of Simms in my mind is of Evil Roy Williams coming over the line and making Simms fumble. While it wasn't really Simms fault, it just represents my memories of him sucking it up in some big games. In the end, he's probably in the top 5 of Texas' non-championship-winning QBs, but I would put him behind Applewhite and James Brown for his lack of heroics.

So take that.

by Kahuna on Mar 26, 2007 2:54 PM CDT to parent up   0 recs

A little off topic...

BUT...after looking at those stats, it gets me excited to think that if McCoy has the exact same year production-wise AND is healthy the whole year, he'll be close to breaking the all-time record for CAREER TD passes.  Simply amazing.  To early to plug him for Top-40?

The degree says TCU, but the heart says "Hook 'em"

by TCU Horn Fan on Mar 26, 2007 2:54 PM CDT to parent up   0 recs

Yeah...

We can't include him on this list, but you're right, he's playing himself onto this list at a rapid pace. After Oklahoma State, I noted that at his current pace, he'll be UT's career TD leader by the end of 2007. Simply incredible.

Worry not, though: while Colt won't be on this list, he is prominently featured throughout the book. Chip Brown is writing an entire chapter on McCoy's dazzling debut.

--PB--

by PB @ BON on Mar 26, 2007 2:59 PM CDT to parent up   0 recs

My problem with this debate

is that everybody jumps on Chris Simms for his 2 or 3 meltdowns, although nobody wants to admit (or even remember, for that matter) that Major had JUST AS MANY awful games as Simms.  Major's Kansas St. game (99?) was actually worse than anything Simms ever did (6 turnovers personally), and I remember some really inept play against teams like NC St, and also there was the Big XII title game against Nebraska and the first big blow-out loss to OU.  

I also felt, while Simms blew most of his "big games," he never lost the games he shouldn't have.  Applewhite did that all the time (NC St., Texas Tech, Stanford, etc.)  

I'm not at all saying that Simms was better.  I thought both of them played pretty inconsistently (which could be easily explained if we hadn't all started to pretend lately that GD hasn't ruined most of the offenses he's touched).  

My problem is that both of them were about the same.  Chris lost the big ones, Major lost the little ones (which is worse? I don't know).  Both had a few absolute meltdowns.  They were the same.  Period.  But because of the circumstances, nobody seems to remember it that way.  People have irrationally decided that Simms was a bad guy, and Major was a good guy.  It never made sense to me.  

The best indication of this selective memory is the fact that everybody always chronicles Chris Simms' "troubles with OU," but the big blowout was actually on Major's watch. Both of Simms' games were competitive.  But people have CHOSEN not to remember it that way.  Its simply easier to make Major into a hero that way.  

by BrooklynHorn on Mar 27, 2007 9:51 AM CDT to parent up   0 recs

Simms: No

I agree that his Winning percentage was high, but how much of that was him, and how much of that was because of the NFL team surrounding him?  You need only to look at his TD:INT ratio to see that he was not in an elite class in college.  I would rather see James Brown on the list than Simms.

However, I agree that a lot of players can be taken from the last several years.

by GoHorns on Mar 26, 2007 3:16 PM CDT to parent up   0 recs

Ugh! Claricfication needed...

I don't know how I am supposed to judge this.  

Roy Williams' numbers were great, but he was a selfish player who rarely performed up to his limitless potential.  Kinda the anti-Ungar; a more productive Lovell Pinkney (who won't sniff this list).  B/c of that, I almost hesitate to inlcude him.

Major is the flip side of that - never a phyical force, but an obsessive workaholic and great decision maker in the pocket.  Major is a legend much like Stoney Clark (also not to be included).  

Like others said, I don't know that I can choose 40 without having some better defined parameters with which to measure.  "Best of All Time" is too amorphous.   Is it strictly production, ie, Simms over J. Brown?  Do we consider other intangibles like leadership, fan favorites, etc?  

Guys like VY, DJ, Huff, and Hampton of course are locks, since they excelled physically, and at the intangible stuff too.  

by Brandon 97 on Mar 26, 2007 1:17 PM CDT   0 recs

Intangibles count

I don't think you can do this without measuring impact on the fans and program as a whole. Texas football is, after all, entertainment.

So, for a guy like Major, what he did as a leader for the program, the example he set for his teammates and fans, and even his impact on recruiting shouldn't be dismissed.

There's room for fan favorites here, and the list would be incomplete if we didn't take into account intangibles.

--PB--

by PB @ BON on Mar 26, 2007 1:20 PM CDT to parent up   0 recs

Re: Roy

Whether or not he played up to his potential, Roy was still easily the best wide receiver I've seen at the 40 acres since I started following the team in the '98 season.  And in terms of purely physical gifts, he was rivaled only by Vince.

I see what you're getting at. I wouldn't judge the players based on how good they could have been, but only on hew good they were.  Even still, though, I can't imagine how Roy wouldn't make the list.

by Meekrob on Mar 26, 2007 2:23 PM CDT to parent up   0 recs

What!

I have never heard anyone say that about Roy Williams.  

"A lot of people look for the easy way to do anything, in swimming there is no easy way." - Eddie Reese

by SwimTexas on Mar 26, 2007 1:22 PM CDT   0 recs

i remember hearing that

Roy grumbled a lot when VY took over at QB from Chance Mock because (at the time) Vince wasn't a great passer and Roy wanted to catch passes, not block downfield.  Even though VY gave Texas the best chance to win, Roy wanted Mock.

Also, I've heard over and over again that Roy is very immature.  Not sure exactly what that means, but I've heard it.

Finally, have you ever heard Limas Sweed talk about Roy?  Limas loves Roy, took his number after he left and everything.  But Limas talks about how when he was a freshman, Roy created his own little clique and didn't really talk to the younger guys or have any interest in mentoring them.  Limas says he wants to be the opposite of that.

Roy was undoubtedly one of the top 40 players in Texas football history.  But he wasn't the greatest teammate, from what i've heard.

by billyzane on Mar 26, 2007 1:43 PM CDT to parent up   0 recs

he may have

grumbled about blocking, but the fact is he was a great downfield blocker.  he was a physical freak of nature and good at everything he did on the field.  he was as dominant a college receiver as anybody i've ever seen play, so there's no way he's not on the list.  i'd put him on par with Benson and DJ from this generation, which to me means lock.

by littlevisigoth on Mar 26, 2007 1:55 PM CDT to parent up   0 recs

Benson will be about my 5 or 6th best RB
Just Remember, No Matter What Happens, ou SUCKS.

by ouALWAYSsux on Mar 26, 2007 2:39 PM CDT to parent up   0 recs

Roy vs. Limas

Give me Sweed anyday.  I have no stats to back me up, and stats lie in this case anyway because Williams lived for stats.  But doesn't it seem like Limas has already made more big catches than Roy did?  Maybe my memory is just getting hazy.  That Ohio State catch will of course never be forgotten....

by brentmcd on Mar 26, 2007 4:30 PM CDT to parent up   0 recs

wow, I literally had no idea...

that Roy Williams was like that.  I know that I loved watching him play.  He was just a beast.  Unstoppable.  He was a man playing against boys.

"A lot of people look for the easy way to do anything, in swimming there is no easy way." - Eddie Reese

by SwimTexas on Mar 27, 2007 10:51 AM CDT to parent up   0 recs

Lets see, a 30 game winning streak

2 national championships, and dang Earl C. was still in High School.
Gonna be fun............60-70's

Just Remember, No Matter What Happens, ou SUCKS.

by ouALWAYSsux on Mar 26, 2007 1:54 PM CDT   0 recs

Greatest of All-Time

Just a subsection to this article...are you going to have a vote for the Greatest Longhorn of All-Time which would be derived from this list?

If so...I wonder who comes first...Earl, Nobis, Ricky, Vince?

Greatest Longhorn of all time in my book is VY.

A Longhorn fan all the way across the pond in Moscow!

by MoscowLonghorn on Mar 26, 2007 1:57 PM CDT   0 recs

We can certainly have that discussion

I'll be ranking the 'Hons from #40 down to #1, so you'll get to see who my choice is for the top spot.

(Also: hooray for Moscow Longhorn fans!)

--PB--

by PB @ BON on Mar 26, 2007 1:58 PM CDT to parent up   0 recs

Maybe I'm biased

But it would be very, very hard for me to understand how anyone could not consider Vince Young the greatest.

It's like, how can anyone in this day and age consider communism a valid concept? Ok, maybe it's just me...

So take that.

by Kahuna on Mar 26, 2007 2:05 PM CDT to parent up   0 recs

Major

I think from this decade, you have to go with VY as a top 5 guy all-time, perhaps number 1.  I am not one who goes for calling someone "best all-time" when the more accurate term would be "most recent great player," as ESPN often does.  However, Vince is a special player who actually lived up to some of the most unreal expectations a kid can ever have put on his shoulders.

I would also say that you're right about Major.  He's probably in the 30-40 range when you consider all the extreme talents that have come through Austin over the years, but the man defined Texas football through his career and led a couple of the greatest combacks any of us have ever seen (albeit one that came up short), which is among the best measures of a quarterback's worth.

by wao23 on Mar 26, 2007 2:27 PM CDT   0 recs

Should we consider extracurriculars?

I mean, it's called the "40 Greatest Longhorns," not the "40 Best Longhorn Football Players"  If so, I'm voting for Mike Williams.  The Mike Williams Show remains my favorite show of all time.

Also, why is Vince on everyone's list?  The guy couldn't even give us four solid years.  He was good in his day, but he was no Chris Simms.

by Meekrob on Mar 26, 2007 2:28 PM CDT   0 recs

Thanks

Now, due to uncontrollable laughter, the boss knows I'm up to nothing productive this PM...

So take that.

by Kahuna on Mar 26, 2007 2:33 PM CDT to parent up   0 recs

unbelieveable

wow... he's gotta be kidding me... didnt realize there were people left in the building who still thought that. I mean comparing Simms to VY is an embarrasment by itself, not to mention thinking that Simms was better than him.

by deysmak on Mar 26, 2007 3:01 PM CDT to parent up   0 recs

yeah, it's a joke

that's why Kahuna was laughing.

by billyzane on Mar 26, 2007 3:07 PM CDT to parent up   0 recs

phew

almost had a heart attack

by deysmak on Mar 26, 2007 3:14 PM CDT to parent up   0 recs

Only...

the Vince part was a joke.  I must point out that the Mike Williams part was deathly serious.

by Meekrob on Mar 26, 2007 3:38 PM CDT to parent up   0 recs

Um...

How isnt Vince Young better than Chris Simms...was that a joke?

A Longhorn fan all the way across the pond in Moscow!

by MoscowLonghorn on Mar 26, 2007 4:51 PM CDT to parent up   0 recs

I guess I'll be the first..

to throw in Kris Stockton. The guy was money and shouldn't be overlooked just because he wasn't a position player.

by FBuck on Mar 26, 2007 2:53 PM CDT   0 recs

Agreed

I hadn't realized he was an All American until I put up the list above...

Also, Phil Dawson is a lock. Has to be.

--PB--

by PB @ BON on Mar 26, 2007 2:54 PM CDT to parent up   0 recs

Virginia

Anybody remember the 52 yarder he put up against the wind to beat Virginia?  Can't remember what year but I remember being at the game and thinking there is no way in hell that's going in.  Dawson was awesome.

The degree says TCU, but the heart says "Hook 'em"

by TCU Horn Fan on Mar 26, 2007 2:56 PM CDT to parent up   0 recs

Looked it up...

1995...we won 17-16.  In case anybody cared.

The degree says TCU, but the heart says "Hook 'em"

by TCU Horn Fan on Mar 26, 2007 2:58 PM CDT to parent up   0 recs

Wow.

Yeah, I was sitting in the north end zone for that one.  It was absolute greatness.  I beleive that was the final SWC year, wasn't it?

by Brandon 97 on Mar 26, 2007 3:29 PM CDT to parent up   0 recs

SWC ended in '96

I would assume that game was during the final season.  Anybody know for sure?  PB?

The degree says TCU, but the heart says "Hook 'em"

by TCU Horn Fan on Mar 26, 2007 3:31 PM CDT to parent up   0 recs

Yeah

'Horns won the inaugural Big XII Championship in '96, so '95 was the last SWC year.

by wao23 on Mar 27, 2007 2:21 PM CDT to parent up   0 recs

Don't do this!

Don't choose "Top 40 Longhorns Of All Time" by yourself or onl y with the help of this community which is really young.

You and most people here are biased towards recent longhorns.  You haven't seen Earl et. al play in DKR.  NO fucking way it will be a fair top 40 longhorns!

Choose top 40 longhorns before 2000 and top 5 after 2000, that could be more fair!

I have Tyler Rose vs Vince Young in the back of my mind ...

by Cyrus on Mar 26, 2007 3:01 PM CDT   0 recs

Whoa nellie

We've only just begun. Remember, we're counting backward by decade. Tomorrow the 1990s. On Wednesday the 1980s. And so on.

This is just the beginning of the discussion. And, I'll note, no more than about 10 guys are approaching "consensus" picks. All of Longhorn history will be represented.

--PB--

by PB @ BON on Mar 26, 2007 3:04 PM CDT to parent up   0 recs

I'm 54 and I'm ready for a fight.

I know it will but a hard battle, but I'm ready.
Like I said earlier, 30 game winning streak and 2 National Championships 60-70's

Just Remember, No Matter What Happens, ou SUCKS.

by ouALWAYSsux on Mar 26, 2007 4:04 PM CDT to parent up   0 recs

Simms vs. Applewhite

Why must this always be an either/or?

As far as quarterbacks go, they would both deserve to be in the top 40.  But why mythologize Applewhite for one comeback win in the Holiday Bowl?  James Brown over Chris Simms?  Are you kidding me?

by Jason Mayer on Mar 26, 2007 3:32 PM CDT   0 recs

I don't put Simms or Brown in there.

There are too many other great players that had both the intangibles and the numbers for Chris to make it very high on anyone's list.  Like Cyrus said, most people here (myself included) are very short sighted with our "greatest" evaluation.  However, anyone putting Chris Simms above Bobby Layne should be excluded from participation.  

by Brandon 97 on Mar 26, 2007 3:57 PM CDT to parent up   0 recs

simms

Who's putting Simms ahead of Bobby Layne anywhere?  All I'm saying is that just because Applewhite became the cause celebre around here due to his "underdog" status doesn't make him more deserving of this list than Simms.

by Jason Mayer on Mar 26, 2007 4:04 PM CDT to parent up   0 recs

Sorry

That Bobby Layne comment was dangling out there.  

My point was simply that there were numerous other players that accomplished more than Simms, yet will likely be omitted from the list simply beacuse they played durring an era predating the birth of most posters on this site.

by Brandon 97 on Mar 26, 2007 4:24 PM CDT to parent up   0 recs

fortunately

The posters on this site are not determining who makes the final list.

by Jason Mayer on Mar 26, 2007 4:32 PM CDT to parent up   0 recs

I think Bobby Layne...

would certainly qualify as one of the "locks" here...

No way you make a list of the top 40 without including him.  Of course, I say that without ever actually having seen him play.  Which is why the list will almost certainly end up slanted toward the more recent past.  These things always are - just take a look at the NBA's Greatest 50 of all time.  Or any comparable list.  They always end up slanted to the fresher memories.  Partly because everyone has seen them play, whereas only the old fogies have seen the older guys play.  And that's just going back to the late 60's-early 70's...  I remember a lot of those guys, and they were truly great, but go back even to the late 50's-early 60's, and I never saw them - the list for actual witnesses gets way shorter for those.  So the lists end up including early players based solely on reputation, which may not be ideal, but what else would you do?  It's just the way it is, and so the competition is always going to be slanted to the newer.

And that's just the actual inclusion in the list - it's probably even harder when it comes to the ranking within the list.  I can provide a (trust me...) valid opinion of where VY and Earl and even Street should end up.  But I really have no idea where Nobis should be on there, or Saxton, or Layne, or hell, Rooster Andrews...

So, basically, have fun with the list, and revel in the memories it brings back.  Fun is its only real value, in the end.

Oh, and don't use Bobby Layne to slander Simms.  From all either you or I know, anybody who puts Major ahead of Bobby Layne should be excluded too.  So what's the real point?  Just more garbage heaped on Simms, for not being who you wanted him to be...  it's tiresome, really.

by agent orange on Mar 27, 2007 2:24 AM CDT to parent up   0 recs

I won't argue Simms v. Applewhite with you

Like I said, we could just copy/paste the arguments from last year. But yeah, I'd take James Brown over Chris Simms in a heartbeat. With ostensibly inferior talent around him (Ricky being the big exception and Priest to a lesser extent) and a coach who called plays with brain injuries, he did some amazing things and sometimes did them on gimpy ankles.

So take that.

by Kahuna on Mar 26, 2007 4:05 PM CDT to parent up   0 recs

mackovic

I've heard Mackovic called a lot of things before (and most of them deserved), but I've never heard him referred to as "call[ing] plays with brain injuries."

The one thing Mackovic had going for him was his offense.

by Jason Mayer on Mar 26, 2007 4:08 PM CDT to parent up   0 recs

He spent virtually an entire season

actively coaching with a concussion! And then tried to blame the team's poor performance on it!

So take that.

by Kahuna on Mar 26, 2007 4:17 PM CDT to parent up   0 recs

concussion

One month during James Brown's freshman season.  Was he even starting at that point?

by Jason Mayer on Mar 26, 2007 4:31 PM CDT to parent up   0 recs

JB's first start was the OU game

that season. By the way, that was also the season we lost to Rice. RICE! Concussion or no (I think he got it after the Rice game), that's egregious incompetence. It's like losing to Baylor. Oh wait, Mackovic did that too...

So take that.

by Kahuna on Mar 27, 2007 12:35 PM CDT to parent up   0 recs

It was a joke

I think we was referring the "Post Concussion Syndrome" season.

by Wells on Mar 27, 2007 12:05 PM CDT to parent up   0 recs

Sad...

that no offensive lineman have been mentioned in the comments thus far.  Cedric, Vince, or any of the other glamour boys don't get to this list without them.

Linemen have always been more easliy evaluated as a group, and so they tend to get overlooked.  Singling out