PLAYING THE NUMBERS GAME: The BCS Computers
BZ’s Note: If I’m considered a "Guest Columnist," then today’s Playing the Numbers Game is written by a Guest-guest Columnist, our very own Horn Brain. He came up with a great idea for a column last week and I just let him run with it. What follows is an only lightly-edited version of what he came up with – an in-depth look at the BCS in a manner I’ve never seen before. Enjoy, kids. --BZ--
So, let’s start with a little background to explain why this is so incredibly geeky:
I’m an aerospace engineering undergrad, so I want to build freakin’ spaceships. I’m also an aerospace engineering undergrad at the University of Texas, so I’m crazy about football. The only logical next step is to crunch statistics like there’s no tomorrow and write about it on the Internet. We cool? Cool.
Now that the pleasantries have been dispensed with, let’s talk about the uncomfortable dis-pleasantry that is the BCS. We all know how it works: Teams get a certain number of points from each poll, whether human or computer, then the points are added up and divided by the maximum possible to give a percentage score, which is averaged into the final BCS average, which you use to rank the teams. The Harris and USA Today polls each count for one-third of a team’s final BCS average, while the computers have the extremes thrown out, and then are all averaged together as the other third. I understand that I just said "we all know how it works," and then proceeded to explain it, but that’s just me stroking everyone’s ego, while simultaneously letting anyone who doesn’t know, know. Cute, right? Yeah, I lied about the pleasantries being dispensed with.
N
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WaYz...
What we don’t all know is the nitty-gritty of what’s really going on inside the aforementioned formulaic festivities quantitatively. We all look at Hawaii and say "Oh, computer no likes. Humans likes. Computer dumb," Or, "The humans have succumbed mightily to the hype on this Hawaii team." We can see that discrepancies occur, but what I’ve done for you all is written a big, ugly Excel spreadsheet that crunches over 100,000 data entries into a few numbers that tell you how often/big those discrepancies occur/are. The standard deviations that I’ve collected are basically going to tell you how far off you can expect a poll to rank a team from where it actually ends up in the BCS Rankings.
Math Stuff:
If you already understand what the standard deviation of a set is and what it measures, good, skip to the next section, if not, read ahead to bone up. If you neither know, nor care, go ahead and skip to the next section, but also be aware that you’ll be taking my word at face value.
Say I start the Horn Brain poll of unlimited vagary and speculation, publish my poll for all eternity, then I crunch all my own numbers and come up with a standard deviation of 7.5. That means that you could expect my ranking to be within 7.5 places of a team’s BCS ranking most of the time. The smaller my standard deviation, the closer you would expect my poll to be to the BCS. If I was smart about it and published my numbers immediately after the BCS came out every week by scrawling "Horn Brain" over the BCS in "BCS Standings" with a burnt-orange crayon, then my standard deviation would be zero, because my rankings were the BCS rankings. Instead, if the BCS ranked Texas #10 and OU #5 and I ranked Texas #11 and OU #4, my standard deviation for these two rankings would be 1. If I ranked Texas #12 and OU #3, my standard deviation from the BCS Rankings would be 2. If I ranked Texas #11 and OU #3, my standard deviation would be in between 1 and 2 (actually about 1.58). This is a ridiculously small sample size, but you can get the idea. Clear? Sorry to bore you, on to the madness!
Computer Rankings vs. Computer Rankings, or: "WTF Billingsley?":
At first, I was interested in just comparing the computers against each other by taking the standard deviation of each computer poll against the computer average. Here’s what I got:
Note: A&H, RB, CM, KM, JS, and PW are Anderson & Hester, Richard Billingsley, the Colley Matrix, Ken Massey, Jeff Sagarin, and Peter Wolfe, respectively.

First, let me explain a few things:
- I started in 2005 because that’s the farthest back I could get data for the same polls in the same weighting scheme that is currently used. I’m not going to go back and manually enter data just because some genius at BCS-topia, or wherever they’re stationed, decided in 2001 to scan a document every week instead of type up a table that could be used efficiently. Plus it’s not statistically sound to use numbers that were averaged differently.
- It’s not fair to just average 2007 equally with the other years, since it only has 4 sets of data (weeks of published polls), whereas the other have 8, so I made it worth ½ as much to the average as the other years. That’s why it says "Average (wtd)."
- Delta is the poll’s standard deviation minus the average for that year. A&H’s delta for 2005 is 2.18 – 2.63 ~ -0.45. Negative numbers mean you’re closer than the average pollster to the average ranking, positive means you’re further.
So, what do all these numbers tell us? Wow. Billingsley’s rankings disagree so much with the other computers, that he is the only one with an above average standard deviation. Let me say this another way – without Billingsley, some computers would be above the average standard deviation and some below, thus giving us the average. But Billingsley’s rankings are so crazy different from the other computers that with Billingsley included in the computation of the average, everyone else is below the average, thanks to Billingsley’s monstrous standard deviation. Look at it in a picture:

That is Billingsley’s towering purple rod, ladies and gentlemen. Try to refrain from snickering, as this is for purely scientific purposes. Notice that 0 is average, here. Let’s be fair, though, and reserve judgment until we see how the computers compare to the overall BCS rankings. Right now, all we can really note is that, since the other polls generally agree with one another, so there are only three possibilities:
- Billingsley is an idiot
- Everyone else is an idiot
- All six polls are idiotic, and Billingsley disagrees from the other idiots, while still maintaining a superior idiocy himself.
Now, remember when I said that the BCS throws out the highest and lowest computer averages? Here I’ve compiled the average number of times, and the average percentage of times out of 25 (that being the maximum number of times that an individual computer’s rankings can be thrown out per weekly poll), that a ranking was thrown out (read: not used at all) in determining the computer average.

First let me explain a few things:
- I’m only counting the number of times that a poll was the unique maximum or minimum ranking. For example, if a team is ranked 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, and 5, only the poll that ranked that team #1 would have a throwout counted against it. The 5’s are the minima, but since someone agrees with them, I’m not going to call them out on it.
- Once again, I’ve weighted 2007 one half as much as the other two years.
- "Throwout percentage" means a poll’s average number of throwouts, divided by 25 (the number of possible throwouts), times 100%.
Yes. Go ahead and look again. That’s 55%. As in Billingsley has, for the past three years running, averaged being thrown out of the poll more times that he has been counted in it. He’s at almost 14 out of 25 times. Once again, there are only the three possibilities. Occam’s razor does not smile upon Billingsley at the moment.
Computers and Humans vs. The BCS, or: "I Don’t Think You Understand Why We Do This, Billingsley"
Now let’s move on to compare the computers and the humans to the BCS average:

Same rules as before, no special explaining to do, here.
Well, here we have a problem. It’s fine to compare the computers to the computers in this context, and it’s fine to compare the humans to the humans, but let’s remember that the humans each count for a full third of the BCS poll, and they also tend to agree with one another quite a bit (Monkey-see, monkey-do, says the computer. Touché.) While the computers only count for around 1/6 of 1/3 each. So, in the spirit of evening the field, I’ve multiplied the computer deviations by 1/3 and the humans by 2/3, and rerun the averages. I know this is quite ad hoc, but my reasoning is that the computers generally agree with each other, so I’ll count them as one poll, and the humans generally agree with each other, so I’ll count them as a collective poll. If you come up with a more logical way to weight the numbers, argue it to me and I’ll adjust them if you sway me. Here are the results:

Same old, same old.
So, now we see that Billingsley agrees more with the overall BCS than he does with the computers. This means that he must be more in line with the human polls, since he does so much better when they’re factored in. Wait, that’s good, right? Better than good, that’s amazing! Billingsley has created a program that thinks (about college football, at least) like a group of humans! Eureka! Oh, wait, why is it that we wanted to include computer rankings in the first place, way, way back when all this BCS stuff began? It was because people are biased towards big names, and are prone to moving teams around based more on when they lose than to whom. It appears that all Billingsley has done is introduce bias to his computer poll. He says so himself:
"In the first week of the season if Florida St. beats #107 No. Illinois, and Ball St. beats #58 Memphis, I don't want Ball St. ranked ahead of Florida St. just because they both have 1-0 records. That's not logical. We ALL KNOW Ball St. is not in the same league with Florida St., at least not at this juncture. Let them EARN IT first. Let them prove it over due course of time, then my poll will respond accordingly. That's what I mean by Season Progression. All of my teams start out with a rank, #1-#117, because they ARE NOT ALL EQUAL. We KNOW THAT from past experience, so why not use that experience to begin with. Some would say starting all teams equal, or all at 0, is the only FAIR thing to do. I say it's the most UNFAIR thing you can do, and besides its just plain illogical."
Quote from mgoblog, emphasis mine, ALL CAPS not mine.
In response to the emphasized statement, "Um, no. Your computer should not. That’s why it exists, bud. I’m through with you."
So, basically, you can see, through all of this, that the computers are pretty consistent (with one enormous throbbing pillar of an exception) amongst themselves, but they generally have trouble agreeing with the humans. The humans get a lot of help just from being worth so darned much in the formula, but you can see that they also compare nicely with the better of the computer formulas once you account for that.
There's more after the break. Click through if you dare.
And Now For Something Completely Different, or: "I Pander to BZ and His Flex Playoff System":
Now let’s shift our attention to something different. Remember those long rants BZ, Red Blooded and I used to share over playoff issues? One of BZ’s and my points in the argument was that the uncertainty of a team’s ranking increases as you move down the ballot (i.e. the higher a team’s ranking, the more consensus there is among the voters that this is the correct ranking for that team), which effectively means that the farther you move down in the rankings, the more claim the team ranked directly below a given spot has to that spot. Therefore, when you allow more teams into a tournament, you’re really just increasing the probability that you have some teams in that tournament that don’t belong, while leaving some teams out that do belong. For instance, if a playoff tournament is constructed based solely on the end-of-season rankings, we can be more certain that we included the actual top 4 teams in the country in a 4-team tournament than we can be that we included the actual top 16 teams in a 16-team tournament. By increasing the number of teams, you’re also (probably) increasing the number of teams who have a legitimate claim to be in the tournament but aren’t, thus, perhaps, actually increasing the controversy surrounding the identity of the national champion.
Well, I’d really rather not make a big fight about this again, and for the record, I’d like to say that I understand Red Blooded’s assertion that the issue is not a team’s claim to a given ranking, but rather to the national championship when it’s all done with. The only real disagreement we have (on this issue) is my championing of choosing based on claim to the NC at the end of the regular season vs. Red Blooded’s desire to eliminate any controversy surrounding the identity of the national champion in the end. That said, it still interests me to what degree the uncertainty rises, and whether or not it is predictable and regular.
Let’s look at some numbers then, shall we?

And now, we have a really neat graph:

So, here we can clearly see that the standard deviation (which is what you would report as the uncertainty of the ranking, if this were my physics lab) of a ranking increases as you move down the ballot, until you get to about #16, at which point it starts dropping off again. This is basically what you would expect, since a good team is generally a consistently good team, and the lower ranked teams tend to be harder to pin down on your ballot (Remember Texas playing like a Top-10 team against OU, right after looking like a Middle-50 team against KSU?). This creates a disagreement among voters, which leads to a higher standard deviation.
The reason for the dropoff after 16? Well, since the computers report an unranked team of any caliber as 0 out of 25 possible points, there’s a sort of wall there at #25, where you can only screw up by guessing higher, which lowers the chances of your ranking being very far off from the actual ranking. Say I think Kentucky is #100 and you think they’re #26, while the BCS ranked them at #25, since we would both report a score of 0 to the BCS score of 1, that would mean the standard deviation of Kentucky’s ranking would be 1, even though it should clearly be higher.
The coolest thing here is my little equation. Given a team’s rank, I can give you a good estimate of the uncertainty in their ranking. If the rank is x, then the uncertainty of the ranking (y) is given by y = -0.0133x^2 + 0.4341x + 0.4683 ± ~0.346. The black line on the chart is the graph of that formula, and you can see that it fits quite well. Notice that average (from the table) is ~3.18. If you want all the teams with better than average standard deviations, then you just plug in 3.18 for y, go back to high school algebra, and use your old friend the quadratic equation to crank out that you want teams ranked higher than ~8.41, which means the top 8 teams.
If that’s not a reason to keep the maximum tournament size to 8 teams, I don’t know what is. Any higher, and you’re less certain about the last team than you are about the average team. "Why do this to yourself?" is all I’m saying. Not to mention, since this seems to be a quadratic function, the fewer teams you include, the slope of the graph gets steeper, which means you cut out more uncertainty with each fewer team included. This is why it makes sense to me to think about giving teams chances based on their claim to the top resume at the end of the regular season, because it’s naturally exclusive [And the number of teams with a claim to that top resume in a given year, while almost always very small, isn’t fixed but variable, which is why the Flex System is so practical. –BZ]. I just wanted to support it with some quantifiable data.
One More Thing:
Finally, I just want to say thanks to anyone that actually reads this and tries to tear me a new one about some assumption I made somewhere or something. The best part about BON is our community that PB and each of us individually do such a great job to maintain at a certain level of rationality and level-headedness that is seldom found on the Internet. Keep up the great work!
--Horn Brain--
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26 comments
Comments
Wow
Awesome, awesome stuff, Horn Brain. I'm gonna have to print it out to read it again, with greater attention to detail, but... wow.
Great work. Thanks to you and BZ both.
by Peter Bean on Nov 9, 2007 11:48 AM CST reply actions 0 recs
F'ing Statistics
They're always out there, being used to prove something right or wrong. Why can't we just go back to mindless guessing, and ending the argument with Yo Mamma jokes?
All kidding aside, nicely done HB & BZ. You still suck for making me think about deviations and regressions on a Friday. But aside from that, this is fantastic stuff. Back when I wasn't so lazy (hard to believe, right?), I would have geekily enjoyed playing with this data set in a program like MiniTab.
Also, props for specifically & numerically proving what a piece of shit the Billingsley computer program is.
by Shake on Nov 9, 2007 12:53 PM CST reply actions 0 recs
smarter for having read this
and that is NOT what the internet was intended for.
by DogTown on Nov 9, 2007 1:40 PM CST reply actions 0 recs
Brilliant!
Three cheers!
Something an engineer much appreciates. It's something I've always wondered/wanted to do, but never put the time in. I'm glad someone did, and very extensively too.
I can't help but wonder though, what standard dev's and delta's would come out if you did not assume "but my reasoning is that the computers generally agree with each other, so I’ll count them as one poll, and the humans generally agree with each other, so I’ll count them as a collective poll."
I have no intention of making you do more work, and it is all brilliant, so I hope you don't think this takes away from a great article with great supporting work.
In regards to comparing computer rankings and human rankings, I almost don't want to bring up the lengthy debate on whether to include 'victory margin' in the computer calculations, but I think it factors significantly into ranking. One can argue that humans are OVER affected by the margin and the computers balance that, but I think it is another important factor in rankings.
Keep up the great work.
by DKR-is-home on Nov 9, 2007 2:06 PM CST reply actions 0 recs
Thanks
I appreciate the appreciation.
In response to your wondering what would happen if I scaled the standard deviations according to how much each poll is actually worth to the average, the answer is just that the humans are hugely deviant compared to the computers. Divide the unweighted human sd's by 3 and the computers' by 12 and that's basically it. The problem with this, is that it's like comparing the individual pollsters of one poll (the computer average) with the averages of the other polls (the humans). That's why I grouped them and gave them the weights I did. Since the humans almost always vote so closely together, it's tough on the computers, since no matter what they produce, the average will always lean towards the other two polls. The scale factors are supposed to help compare the individual human polls to the individual computer polls, because otherwise it just looks like the humans are way better predictors than they really are.
In response to MoV, I think it's better not to include it, just because it biases the poll towards teams with faster offenses. The defense can only hold you to a shutout, but an offense can score as many points as it has time to score. Some teams just aren't going to score a lot of points if they play against air. They just run the clock by keeping the ball on the ground and stuffing their opponent's offense. What's more important is the way a team wins, more than by how much. We've all seen teams win a game by one score while still dominating the other team, and we've all seen teams collapse at the end of a game and end up losing a close one by 20 points.
by Horn Brain on Nov 10, 2007 12:13 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Niiice
Nice, weighting the averages the way you did makes sense then, thanks.
by DKR-is-home on Nov 11, 2007 4:26 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
my monthly quota filled, i just learned something
When you give a rorschach test and ask "what do you see?" how can the answer ever be wrong unless the answering person*[footnote] lies? Well, what I take away from all of BZ's number crunching is this: All six polls are idiotic, and Billingsley disagrees from the other idiots, while still maintaining a superior idiocy himself because his poll is more in line with the human polls. That is consistent with my track record . . . frequently wrong but never in doubt.
[footnote] I used the term "answering person" because years ago in an oil and gas accounting class my friend Suzanne (who had been a stewardess - later to be called a flight attendant - for 2 years between graduating from college and this test that we were about to take) was still trying to make sure that she understood the names of different persons/parties which were going to be the subject of the test. As the prof was walking around the room handing out copies of the test, he was still fielding some questions from the floor.
Suzanne asks "Hmmm, so the leasor gives the lease, and the lessee receives the lease?" Prof says "Right."
Suzanne continues "So the mortgagor give the mortgage, and the mortgagee receives the mortgage?" Prof says "Right" as he approaches Suzanne's row to distribute copies of the test.
Suzanne is thinking really hard now "So that means you're the testor,
and we're the . . . "
LOL, thank you BZ!
by bravobevo on Nov 9, 2007 2:14 PM CST reply actions 0 recs
I can't take credit
This was all Horn Brain. I just did a little planning and a little editing, that's all. Please direct all compliments his direction.
by billyzane on Nov 9, 2007 2:41 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Great work, Horn Brain!
I've plugged your handy formula into my phone so now, when I'm at the bar debating rankings, I can get free beers by letting folks know how accurate their picks really are!
So, I owe you a night out. Let me know when you get to Houston and I'll let you in on my pick 'em formula that employs the Hausdorff-Besicovitch dimension.
That's a guaranteed wild time...maybe Wells can join us.
by horndude on Nov 9, 2007 2:40 PM CST reply actions 0 recs
8 team versus 16 team
Nice work. I definitely think an 8 team playoff is better than a 16 team playoff - provided you also have only 6 conferences with 2 wildcard entries. Unfortunately, we have 11 conferences. Given the unbalanced schedules inherent with college football, it's my contention that Conference champions earn a spot in a MPS (mythical playoff system). That's the only way every team in college football has a legitimate shot to win. In any game, if a segment of competitors have less of a chance to win from the get go (scheduling, bias, etc), then the game is flawed.
Under the current system, 11 conference champs get in. With 5 wildcards. I'd think you'd find most of those wildcards would be ranked in the Top 10, solving your problem about the uncertainty of rankings beyond the Top 10. Regarding the argument that Sun Belt Champ North Texas doesn't deserve it, that would be moot after they get matched up against the #1 team at a regional site or homefield. It would also give the #1 seed an advantage over being a #8 seed. But, at least if a team like North Texas went undefeated with a SOS of 105th, they would not be punished for their conference schedule. Thus, maintaining the integrity of college football.
by 13ev0 on Nov 9, 2007 3:28 PM CST reply actions 0 recs
We're not talking about
a playoff system in which the participants are chosen by winning their conference. That may be better, or it may not be (and I personally absolutely think it is not), but that's a general playoff debate.
Here, we're focused more on a potential playoff system in which a certain number of teams get in based on some evaluation of their season's resume that results in a ranking. The question Horn Brain looked at was, based on the statistical consensus among voters, how many teams does it make sense to include in such a playoff.
So, to say that an 8-team playoff doesn't work because there are too many conferences really doesn't pertain to what he was talking about. It's just a separate playoff proposal.
by billyzane on Nov 9, 2007 3:56 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Playoff System
Every other major sport allows Conference Champions to enter the playoff (NBA, NFL, MLB, NHL, NCAA baseball, NCAA basketball). Automatic berths by conference champions works and ensures the integrity of the sport. We won't be arguing why that is. Let your human/computer polls determine the number of wildcard entries, which judging by your analysis, should not include teams past the Top 10. That's my point and that's why it is relevant to your analysis.
There should be no playoff debate without automatic conference champions. I'm tired of your computers and biased human polls. Having the Billingsley poll in there is ridiculous. If I wanted judges to determine champions, I'd watch diving.
by 13ev0 on Nov 9, 2007 4:18 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
yup
college football from the 1930's until 1998 was pretty much exactly like diving. or gymnastics! who even cared about college football before 1998 when there was a "championship game" for the first time? NO ONE, that's who.
by billyzane on Nov 9, 2007 4:32 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Old Days of College Football
From 1930 to the 90's, college football was a regional sport. If you were a Texas, if you beat your rivals, won the SWC and won the Cotton Bowl, you did you part. National Championships were icing on the cake. Now, things have changed (national coverage, money) and football fans want more. Now, unless you're the listeater, you could give a shit about going to the Cotton Bowl. Now, they're destroying the Orange Bowl and they give us the Gallery Furniture Bowl.
College football is great up until the post-season exhibitions and the inevitable outrages that occur when a system spits out Oklahoma and Nebraska in past years as finalists.
And what does the BCS do to fix the system? they take the most recent sample error and make changes. More computer, more human, delete Margin of Victory, etc. It's embarrassing. So, yes I would like to follow a real sport where the champions are determined on the field.
by 13ev0 on Nov 9, 2007 11:47 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Hey!
BCS = 2 team tournament = settled on the field = Real Sport (according to that last sentence). Even your conference champions suggestion included some kind of polling to determine at-large teams. That means that to some degree, who plays for the NC is determined by pollsters, not by touchdowns.
Settling it on the field is something we would all like, but a huge tournament just isn't going to fit with college football. It's not a big tournament sport. It's Super Bowl Saturday every Saturday for 13 weeks out of the year for me, and that's the way I like it. I will never want a system that I think will destroy that about this sport, however, it's clear that just a two team tournament isn't getting it done every year. What we have, then, is a chance to balance these two seemingly-conflicting needs with a system that maintains the win-or-die aspect, as well as settles the national championship debate on an annual basis in a manner that is satisfying to the great majority of fans/players/coaches/schools. Why do this the way everyone else does it when we have that chance?
by Horn Brain on Nov 10, 2007 12:31 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Yeah,
You can't really expect that, just because we have 11 conferences, that 5 at-large teams to make a 16 team tournament is the best idea. You also need to realize that the World Cup (Soccer) doesn't automatically allow the "area" champion (essentially a conference champion) in, because of the vast differences in number of teams and overall quality of those teams in each area. Plus, look at your examples:
NBA, NFL, NHL - These three leagues are professional leagues, and therefore, have a much higher degree of parity among conferences. They all decide playoff berths by overall record, because all the teams and conferences are roughly on the same level. In this case, the winner of the worst conference will not be nearly as outmatched against the top team as it would be in college football, where you would have probably Troy or Arkansas State against Ohio State or LSU or something. There is no point to that game being played, just like Ohio State or LSU fans would complain about their crappy schedules and having to pay to see games that are basically decided before kickoff. If, on the off-chance that the Sun Belt champ is actually good, then they deserve to be considered, but let them work their way up into the Flex System's range of acceptance and earn that shot.
NCAA baseball and basketball - These tournaments are freaking huge. If we let that many teams into a football conference, the first round would be full of thrillers like Big XII # 5 KSU vs. SBC Champ Troy. You're kidding, right?
You can't just throw conference champs into a tournament because they won some ad hoc conference. What if ND paid a portion of its huge TV contracts off to the likes of Army, Navy, Arkansas State, North Texas, Southern Miss, and Rice so that they would form a conference with ND, so that ND would win the conference championship and always get a berth in the playoff (except not this year, wow!)? That's a little ridiculous, but it demonstrates the point that a conference championship does not a contender make.
by Horn Brain on Nov 9, 2007 11:49 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Bottom Line
Conference Champions getting into the tournament allows every D1 team the chance to win. Without it, not all teams have any chance of winning the championship (i.e. Hawaii this year, '06 Boise St, '03 Auburn, the list goes on). That is a huge flaw and affects the current integrity of college football - which in the past was more of a regional sport with regional championships (i.e. Texas to the Cotton Bowl). This competitive flaw outweighs the minor issues you mentioned before that are inherent in all sports.
by 13ev0 on Nov 10, 2007 8:46 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Auburn
would have had a chance in the Flex System. Boise State likely would have had a chance if the Flex System was in place, because voters would have been inclined to put them into position to earn a bid to the tournament. Hawaii doesn't deserve a chance at the NC even if they win every game. Allowing conference champions into the tourney automatically devalues OOC games, and doesn't promote tougher scheduling, since your SoS can be dead last in the country (Hawaii) and if you win the WAC you get an automatic shot. You should have to earn a shot at the title. Plus, do you think Boise State really cared about the NC? All those teams want is to get to the BCS. You can argue all you want, but Boise State would have been like... Who was it? George Mason or something? That made it pretty far into the NCAA tournament a few years ago. If Boise had been in a tournament, they probably would have ended their season on a loss, and therefore been a relative non-event. College football has the only system where a Cinderella story like that can end with a win.
by Horn Brain on Nov 10, 2007 9:59 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Questions?
Why were the current computer polls chosen? Is it possible to change to different computers? Why can't various universities use their math, engineering, economic, biology, etc departments to come up with a newer football ranking algorithm than the ones that are being used?
by JohnsonUT on Nov 9, 2007 3:37 PM CST reply actions 0 recs
These computer polls
From what I have read, have been chosen almost totally on "Who has a fancy computer algorithm that ranks computers? Oh, these guys? Let's use their rankings!" The BCS likes to use phrases like "Has been running his computer poll for over 30 years, starting with an abacus and a slide rule." I have no idea why they keep Billingsley in the BCS. His algorithm starts off with trying to rank all the teams without bias, and then I guess he didn't like the fact that the Florida States, USCs, Oklahomas, Miamis, Notre Dames, etc. of the world weren't always highly ranked, and started screwing with the poll until it looked like he thought it "should" look. Which makes his poll little more than a human poll that is produced and published digitally.
Now, I'm sure if he were to say anything about this, the first thing he'd say would be something like "You can't throw people out of the poll just because they're different! That means you're forcing the computers to vote a certain way, and shaping the poll based on what you expect it to give you!" Well, let's think about that:
A: Throwing RB out of the poll entirely would affect more than just the 45% of rankings that he actually gets counted in, because it would then allow the next-craziest ranking to be thrown out. This helps to eliminate your outliers. So, yes he does make a difference.
B: The difference he makes is pretty clearly bad. If every other computer generally agrees, and you do not, then it is highly likely that you are wrong, and not them. I understand that there are different ways to compute a ranking, (and that should be reflected by the average of several computer polls) but there is only a limit as to how far those sensible rankings can deviate from the norm. If you are so bad as to be the extreme ranking in at least 55% of all rankings, then you must clearly fall in the category of "ludicrous".
Back to your question, though, there are several people/entities that rank teams via computer, but the BCS should really do some analysis much like what I've done here before allowing someone into the average. In regards to getting the schools to produce some kind of computer rankings, I think that's an interesting idea, although with 120 schools, it would be a nightmare to check all of their algorithms and keep them from intentionally skewing data (although that should all generally cancel out in the average, you know that some schools would skew, and others would not, thus leading to a slight imbalance overall).
by Horn Brain on Nov 9, 2007 11:29 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Great research - I like numbers, too
by two4mnvw on Nov 9, 2007 4:02 PM CST reply actions 0 recs
Good work, pretty enlightening.
Maybe some of the problem with rankings are that we assume there should be a exact 1-25 progression. This is pretty much like trying to calculate the orbits of the planets based on the idea the the earth is the center of the system.
Because of personal, coaching and style of play you could have three team A,B,C,. You could have a situation where A beats B, B beats C and C beats A.
A much more complex situation happen throughout the season. Then we try to shoe horn the results into a 1 is better than 2, 2 is better than 3 and so on. This ranking system is so abstracted from real relative strength between the teams that no amount of statistical gyrations can create truly accurate descriptions of those ranking relations in all cases all the time.
A more realistic format would be to group teams in sets that represent less well define relationships within the group and a stronger sense of ranking to those other groups. The groups size could be set up based on a a playoff format for the group that would define the hierarchy within the group.
Group A could be the top 6 teams. In a lot of cases there might only be uncertainty about two of the 6 teams in the group, those teams in the regular 5 and 6 spots. The same with the group below. But it would be unlikely that the team in the 9 spot is better than the one in the number 6 spot so it you can be pretty sure that that team should be in the second group. So you may have the uncertainty reduced by a good fraction in each group.
This wouldn't eliminate all the problems of the present system or even the majority of the ranking problems but it would cut down on some of the uncertainty. If the various group playoffs were set up properly you could end up with a pretty fair sense of a national ranking at the end of the season.
by Xerxes on Nov 9, 2007 5:00 PM CST reply actions 0 recs
this is sort of...
what the Flex System does. It's only concerned with the top group though. Right now under the BCS, the "top group" is automatically 2 teams, and those 2 play a 2-team playoff for the championship.
What the Flex System does is realizes that only rarely does the "top group" actually contain exactly 2 teams. It's an inherently small group every year, but the exact number varies.
This is an excellent way of thinking about how the Flex System works, even though that wasn't your intention. I thank you, sir.
by billyzane on Nov 9, 2007 7:36 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Wow HornBrain!
I feel like I actually know something about football now!
by CoercedTX on Nov 10, 2007 12:05 AM CST reply actions 0 recs
Just another reason I'm proud to be a Horn
You won't find this analysis on the tech or sooner blogs.
100 cocktails to you Horn Brain!
by UT2001 on Nov 10, 2007 11:19 AM CST reply actions 0 recs
Yo thanks, baby!
I could use one now, after that Tech game. I'm freakin' spent.
by Horn Brain on Nov 10, 2007 9:47 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

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