Terrelle Pryor Out: Focus Returns to Russell Shephard vs Garrett Gilbert
by Peter Bean on Dec 12, 2007 11:33 AM CST
in Recruiting
38 comments
With word that five-star dual-threat, dual-athlete Terrelle Pryor has dropped the Longhorns from his list of schools he's considering, expect some grumbles among fans who will wonder if Mack Brown is slipping as a recruiter. Pryor, who scouts most often compare to Vince Young, had listed Texas among his top five schools for nearly a year, but ultimately moved on because, as he told the media, Texas' coaches weren't putting in much effort to recruiting him.
Are Mack Brown and Co. making a mistake? If Pryor turns out to be like Vince Young - sure, it could be. But I think this is a reasonably practical calculation by Texas' coaches. For starters, it's hard to blame Mack Brown for being wary of fishing for high-profile out-of-state quarterbacks. After both Ryan Perrilloux and John Brantley turned their backs on Texas after an initial commitment, I can sympathize with Mack Brown not wanting to dump an excess of resources into trying to get Pryor (who very well may not have come to Texas even if the staff had rolled out the red carpet).
But more than that, Mack's got good reason to focus his attention within the Texas borders, as the 2009 class is led by two universally-heralded quarterbacks - Russell Shepard and Garrett Gilbert. Both are among Rivals.com's national Top 100 for the 2009 class (Shepard #4, Gilbert #49). Though Shepherd is one of the elite athletes in the entire country, Gilbert's performance as a junior has his stock as a pro-style passer soaring. This past week, Gilbert led Lake Travis to a 57-43 state playoff win by throwing 7 touchdown passes, one shy of a state record. Gilbert's Lake Travis Cavaliers (13-1) advanced to the state 4A semifinal, to be played in College Station this Friday.
Gilbert's supreme junior season and rising stock should make for high drama among hardcore Longhorn recrtuining devotees; the decision of whom the coaches should pursue the hardest is sure to spark fierce debate. Shephard is an athletic quarterback in the mold of John Chiles and consistently lists the Longhorns as among his top choices. Gilbert is a far more polished pocket passer, and though he's from the Austin area, he's not yet made it known which schools he's eyeing closest.
Texas' coaches will likely pursue both vigorously and, if I had to guess, put offers on the table for both. If that's the case, the smart money is on Shephard committing to Texas quickly, in all likelihood leaving Gilbert to choose among his other suitors. Though everything indicates Gilbert's going to be a fine, fine quarterback, this situation would be - in my opinion - better for Texas. This staff has failed to win a conference championship with a pocket passer. If we're generous, we could say McCoy's scrambling ability makes him somewhat of a hybrid, but he's not freezing many defenders who fear him as a rusher. In reality, this staff has had two elite seasons, both of which came with a true dual-threat quarterback.
I'm no recruiting expert, but I'd just as soon see Texas wind up with Russell Shephard. Either would be great, but recruiting is as much a matching game as it is identifying talent.
--PB--
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Texas and running qb's
by Traveler on Dec 12, 2007 11:41 AM CST reply actions 0 recs
Does Shepard really translate into a college QB?
I understand the guy has supreme athletic ability. However, he only completed 46% of his passes this year correct? VY was really raw as a passer when he came to Texas and he never had such a poor completion percentage. I just wonder if Shepard can indeed play QB at Texas. Perhaps those of you who have watched him in person can shed some light on his passing abilities.
by Misterserious7 on Dec 12, 2007 12:18 PM CST reply actions 0 recs
I am not too concerned about Pryor.
He indicated a desire to play both basketball, and football - something that Texas coaches have frowned on in the past. With such a pivotal position as QB, that requires so much time outside of practice to truely excel, I am not surprised that we passed on this one.
by Brandon 97 on Dec 12, 2007 12:55 PM CST reply actions 0 recs
Ditto
While I would have been excited with a Pryor signing, he is an NBA level talent and could have jumped to the Association at any time after his frosh year. In the mean time he could easily have scared away Shep and Gilbert. That would have been an ugly but all too possible scenario if we got Pryor.
by honkskillet on Dec 12, 2007 1:38 PM CST reply actions 0 recs
Gilbert's Dad...
....was an NFL quarterback. We have GD GD. Oil & water. Alpha and Omega. Polar opposites and that kind of stuff.
by HornChamps on Dec 12, 2007 1:44 PM CST reply actions 0 recs
Gilbert
I saw him once this year and he's gooooooood ... very accurate. His numbers would be even higher had his receivers not dropped some of his lasers. One thing to think about when you look at high school QB numbers is that they throw to high school receivers, most of whom won't play organized football beyond their senior year
by FreedomDip on Dec 12, 2007 2:12 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Yah but ...
they also play against high school defenses :)
by Loisaida Horn on Dec 12, 2007 2:17 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Last quarterback we passed on from
Lake Travis High School to a no-name Kansas Jayhawk team to a BCS bowl. When are we going to learn from our mistakes? Why not a pocket passer? If he's extremely accurate and we have receivers who can catch, we don't need a qb who scrambles.
I have the opinion that if a QB cannot pass well, even if he is fast, Texas should pass on him. "You could be a number of things years from now, but you won't be a Massachusetts State Trooper." "You're no F#$%^ING COP!"
We can always line two runnings backs up in the backfield and snap it to one of them.
by 512 on Dec 12, 2007 2:40 PM CST reply actions 0 recs
direct snap to a RB??!?
....that would require a degree of confidence and imagination which this coaching staff has shown they do not possess.
by brentmcd on Dec 12, 2007 3:11 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
hmmm....
I have the opinion that if a QB cannot pass well, even if he is fast, Texas should pass on him.
who does this remind me of......someone familiar.....oh yeah! vince young. we shoulda passed on vince young because he wasn't a very good passer out of high school.
by billyzane on Dec 12, 2007 4:45 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
another QB
It would be super to get either Gilbert or Shephard, but what's the rundown on this Casey Pachall character? He's a 4-star QB from Brownwood, ranked #90 in the Rivals 100, and he's got Texas as the only school "high" on his list?
Anybody...anybody....?
by BigTexBD on Dec 12, 2007 4:03 PM CST reply actions 0 recs
Dual purpose QBs the way to go
UT has had its best success with a dual purpose QB (VY, of course) and it takes a dual purpose QB to use the spread option offense to maximum efficiency.
One of the reasons that there is a leveling in college football (probably temporarily only) is that spread offenses utilize different kinds of athletes than traditional offenses. If your QB is throwing on the run quite often, there is much less need for huge linemen to protect the pocket and much more need for mobile linemen that can go out and block in space.
Also, the spread makes short, quick QBs like Chase Daniels and Todd Reesing (sp?) more valuable. Because they throw on the rollout much more, it is more important to be mobile than tall.
With the tall, traditional QB (think Simms), it was an absolute requirement that the O line be premium to give him enough time to fire those laser shots. With a guy like WV's pat White at QB, he is going to move around 100 times more than Simms. this means the D has a moving target who might either pass or run. At a bare minumum, it means the D has to account for an extra runner.
Spread offenses are going to start to put running back type athletes at wide receiver positions. This permits throwing short passes and depending on YAC for yards gained. This puts much less stress on the QB to have a great arm because most of his passes will be quite short.
UT needs to commit to recruiting dual purpose QBs who are optimized for the spread option offense. It seems to me that if you have multiple QBs like chiles, it makes sense to play 2 of them at a time (some of the time). either guy can throw or run. It would be nice to have a left handed QB on the team to facilitate running mini reverses so that either QB that ends up with the ball will be able to throw easily in the direction that he is running.
If you use a spread option system, there has to be some depth at QB because the QBs are going to absorb some hits running the ball.
good evaluation of Mccoy.
by Kafka on Dec 12, 2007 4:08 PM CST reply actions 0 recs
Sorry, but
texas doesn't run the spread option, so I'm not even sure why you brought this up in your post.
One of the reasons that there is a leveling in college football (probably temporarily only) is that spread offenses utilize different kinds of athletes than traditional offenses.
False. Spread option offense can utilize the same types of athletes as other offenses; in fact, they can make better use of athletes who do not fit into other types of offenses. That is the beuaty of a pure spread option attack.
If your QB is throwing on the run quite often, there is much less need for huge linemen to protect the pocket and much more need for mobile linemen that can go out and block in space.
False. If you pass the ball, you still need a good, pass-protecting OL. You can think what you want about not needing massive OL to pass protect b/c of a mobile QB, but you'd be wrong. Any look at the rosters of some spread option teams will tell you that.
Spread offenses are going to start to put running back type athletes at wide receiver positions.
This has already been happening for years now. At small town, rural high schools, the two best athletes on the team are the QB and the RB. Many schools go and take that QB and move him to WR.
This permits throwing short passes and depending on YAC for yards gained. This puts much less stress on the QB to have a great arm because most of his passes will be quite short.
False. It doesn't matter what kind of offense you run, you need a QB who can throw the ball deep if you plan on utilizing an effective passing game. If you can only throw the ball in the short to middle range, the defense can squat on the middle routes, and squeeze your offense to death (see Missouri, 2004).
It seems to me that if you have multiple QBs like chiles, it makes sense to play 2 of them at a time (some of the time). either guy can throw or run. It would be nice to have a left handed QB on the team to facilitate running mini reverses so that either QB that ends up with the ball will be able to throw easily in the direction that he is running.
Great idea in theory, lousy idea in practice. You want to use one primary passer the vast majority of the time, simply b/c your WRs get used to a certian type of spin on the football. If you had two QBs in the backfield the majority of the time, you'd have a ton of dropped passes.
by Beergut on Dec 13, 2007 10:02 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Not fair...
... to say Texas doesn't run the spread option. We did with VY, to be sure, and we still occasionally let Colt run it (see the end of Nebraska and parts of OSU and Tech games, although Tech was more designed runs and less zone-reads, I think). This year we started out with a spread passing attack, then slowly became more reliant on the option element of the spread to good effect, then completely ignored it again when we played A&M.
Kafka is right that we should not recruit pocket passers anymore. As much as I love Colt, no one wants to see GD's pocket offense hit the field ever again once Colt goes. If we had a good dual-threat quarterback, we'd see the spread option at UT again, so don't say Texas doesn't run it. We used to and would again if we had the personnel.
by Horn Brain on Dec 13, 2007 12:41 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Horn Brain
A&M ran a Spread Option, UF runs a Spread Option, so does WVa. What you ran under VY was not a Spread Option.
by HMFIC04 on Dec 14, 2007 6:34 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Why?
Thank you for doing exactly what Beergut did and saying "UT doesn't run a spread option" with no explanation. I see us giving VY the ball, him running the zone read, the option, PA passing off of the zone read, QB draws, etc, and then you tell me it's not the spread option. What? Did we need to pass less? Does GD just need to call it the spread option? We moved the ball by running it out of the shotgun, and got big plays in the passing game. VY did basically everything. We had 3 or four receivers and we sprayed the ball all over the field. Am I missing something, because I thought that about covered it? Why was that offense not the spread option?
by Horn Brain on Dec 14, 2007 12:37 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
VY did in fact run a spread option
But I don't think there is a solid working definition of the "spread option". It is a general classification.
Urban Meyer himself classified the Texas offense as a "spread option" and so did Francakes. Maybe the experts on this blog no better than they do.
Texas used the spread in the shotgun as a pass first run second, but my understanding of a true spread option is run first (by reading the line) and pass second.
by EYESofBEVO on Dec 14, 2007 1:20 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Any word....
on RB Darrell Scott? Where does Texas stand on his list?
by RollLeft15 on Dec 12, 2007 4:27 PM CST reply actions 0 recs
Mum's the word
But this is cool: Texas fans in California have been going to his high school playoff games dressed in burnt orange and cheering loudly for him. Which is awesome.
by Peter Bean on Dec 12, 2007 4:53 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Says your genius brain?
Where did you get this?
by Horn Brain on Dec 14, 2007 12:38 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
His uncle
who is one year older than him goes to CU. He now lives with his great aunt (Uncle's mother) so CU has a huge recruiting advantage because every time his uncle comes home from school he is trying to get him to go to CU.
by Wells on Dec 14, 2007 2:02 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Thanks Wells
But why go to CU? So he can be a total freak and not be expected to win a national championship to be regarded as the best player in CFB ala Run DMC? Oh, yeah, I guess so...
by Horn Brain on Dec 14, 2007 2:12 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
I'm going skiing after Christmas
That shit is fun. I bet that's it.
by Horn Brain on Dec 14, 2007 4:27 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Question -
After both Ryan Perrilloux and John Brantley turned their backs on Texas after an initial commitment, I can sympathize with Mack Brown not wanting to dump an excess of resources into trying to get Pryor (who very well may not have come to Texas even if the staff had rolled out the red carpet).
Are you arguing that you don't know if the coaching staff is gun shy, but you understand if they are, or are you asserting that they are gun shy and they have a good reason because of Brantley and Perrilloux?
by ged3 on Dec 12, 2007 8:56 PM CST reply actions 0 recs
Mack's offers
Mack has explicitly made the following two facts clear in the recent past:
- he vastly prefers to recruit Texas boys who want to go to UT and Mack has developed great ties with Texas HS coaches to make this happen.
- he has stated his pride at turning nearly every recruiting visit into an acceptance (notice that is every recruiting visit not every offer).
given these two facts, by definition Mack is not eager to get into a contentious battle for an out of state athlete.
On top of that, Mack is a real sensitive guy. I am certain the Perriloux, brantley, and Snead fiascos really embarrassed Mack and he would like to avoid another high profile personnel fiasco at the QB position.
by Kafka on Dec 12, 2007 9:26 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
I -think- they're gun shy
And I'm suggesting it's because of two factors: (1) past negative experiences with out of state QBs, and (2) the two hot Texas kids in the '09 class.
I can't say I know for a fact that there's not some other reason they haven't pursued Pryor vigorously, but I can at least understand what their thinking with the above two factors in play.
by Peter Bean on Dec 12, 2007 9:35 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Mack Brown
Has not pulled in a big time QB since Vince Young.
Colt turned out to be a decent QB, but he wasnt a bigtime recruit in HS.
by HMFIC04 on Dec 14, 2007 6:35 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
So our....
....salesman HC is afraid of being told "no"?? One country LA quarterback has effectively neutered our football coach? Wow! I mean W@W!
With our laser-beamed approach toward Texas talent, one can't help but wonder how 10 of the country's Top-100 recruits will be leaving the State of Texas??
by HornChamps on Dec 13, 2007 12:38 AM CST reply actions 0 recs
Your right
we should be able to sign every top 100 recruit from Texas every year.
PB,
Please disable comments now so I can look smart.
by Wells on Dec 13, 2007 12:34 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Never....
by HornChamps on Dec 14, 2007 12:20 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Never.....
....surprised to see that you twist logic until it breaks to make it fit into your delusional world.
by Wells on Dec 14, 2007 2:04 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
2008 will not be a banner year for recruiting
but you can't get them all every year. I assume that when you say that 10 of the country's Top-100 are leaving the State of Texas, what you really mean is that they are not committing to UT.
Overall there are 14 prospects from the State of Texas in the 2008 Rivals National100. 4 have committed to UT, 4 to OU, 2 to A&M, 1 to Mich, 1 to Stanford, 1 to tOSU, & 1 undecided.
What we have to hope for is that this trend doesn't continue over the next few years or we may have the same type of seasons that we've had over the last two years. The 2003 (4 out of 14), 2004 (4 out of 14), and 2005 recruiting classes (3 out of 11) were similar to what it appears this 2008 recruiting class will end up looking like. The 2003 class were true seniors last season and the 2004 class were seniors this year. If we string together several more of those types of classes in the coming years I do think we will end up being Top 15 caliber in the 2011 season and beyond.
But there is room for hope (but maybe not for you, HC). In the 2006 class, UT landed 8 of the 14 National100 players from the State of Texas (and two from outside the state lines). In the 2007 class, UT landed 8 of the 13 players from the State of Texas. Those two years are similar to the 2002 class where UT landed 8 of 14 (with the obvious exception being that there was no VY in the 2006 & 2007 classes). That 2002 class were seniors in the MNC year.
But if recruiting success points to "senior season" on-field success, the 2009 & 2010 seasons are shaping up to be pretty successful.
by gwh65 on Dec 14, 2007 9:40 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
No one here..
has mentioned Tyrik Rollison as a viable option to either Shepard or Gilbert. Rollison, a dual-threat QB out of Sulphur Springs, is number 13 on Rivals100 2009, and from all I hear is every bit the running threat of Shepard, and a much more polished passer. Personally, he's the one I'm most intrigued by at this point. Seems like the best fit for UT's offense with the most complete set of skills.
by TKO on Dec 13, 2007 7:37 AM CST reply actions 0 recs
terrelle
We need to pull out all stops to get a stud ("the stud") qb. I think we all know where we stand if it's left up to offensive coordination. I don't understand why UT didn't pursue Pryor more vigorously. Hell let him play hoops too. You really think Colt leads the Horns to any prominence next year? We get smoked by ASU and goodbye top 25 streak. Deservedly so.
by jwags3 on Dec 13, 2007 10:15 PM CST reply actions 0 recs
Do not discount A&M
yet when it comes to the QB race, particularly with Sherman.
by HMFIC04 on Dec 14, 2007 6:36 AM CST reply actions 0 recs
Do we really want this guy to end up at Aggie?
Cavaliers junior quarterback Garrett Gilbert also was big in the first half, compiling 347 yards and two touchdowns on 26-of-30 passing. During one stretch in the opening half, Gilbert completed 21 straight passes, a streak that ended when an acrobatic catch by Walla was ruled out-of-bounds late in the second quarter.
Gilbert's 21 straight completions came a week after he threw for seven touchdowns to lead the Cavs to a 57-43 win over Beeville. In a season that has seen him pass for 4,466 yards and 49 touchdowns, Gilbert is still finding ways to impress.
Hell, if Pistol Pete can find a way to get two 5-star recruits to commit in the same class, why can't Mack?
Mack wasn't going to go after Pryor because Pryor wanted to play football AND basketball. That was pretty much made clear at the outset. So he was never on the radar for Texas. All of the interest was always one-way, and all of the hype was always on Scout and Rivals.
Scott would be a nice get from a publicity standpoint, but we've got good solid athletes on the roster at RB, and there are three studs available to choose from in 2009. Don't discount Colorado as a viable option. Hawkins is a damn good coach, a damn good recruiter, his players love him, and Boulder is Austin at high altitude. They landed Lynn Katoa, I wouldn't be surprised if they land Scott. Colorado will be back at the top of the Big XII North in another two years (Kansas = anomaly, Missouri had their shot this year, Nebraska is going to suck for several more years). So why shouldn't Scott end up there?
I just don't see any surprise commits between now and February. We will be lucky to hang on to Nolan Brewster, and lucky to stay in the Top 10 in the final recruiting rankings. Let's just give Bobby his due for pulling in another great class, and get ready to welcome the guys that we ARE getting.
by patienthornsfan on Dec 15, 2007 3:26 AM CST reply actions 0 recs
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